Talk:Bayan of the Baarin

Mongol or Turcic

I think we can all agree that he was Mongol in the sense of "part of the ruling elite of the Mongol empire". Whether his ethnicity was Turcic or not seems a very interesting question - what exactly does Rossabi base his evidence on? Cleaves says Chinese texts treat him as "Mongol of the Baarin tribe", and discusses the names of his ancestors. He does not discuss whether Bayan was Mongol or Turcic, though. He gives a statement in one source about Bayan being born and grown up in Persia, but dismisses it as obviously erroneous (p. 205, note 16). Yaan (talk) 15:59, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Passages from Rossabi's book

To avoid any confusion about what the source entails, I will quote Rossabi directly from his book given in the reference section. On page 25 Bayan is introduced as an aide to Kublai in the Dali campaign of 1253, his main task to oversee the construction of inflated sheepskin rafts to cross the Jinsha River. On page 189, Rossabi speaks of the campaign against the Southern Song:

...Khubilai agreed with his loyal and old friend and companion [i.e. Shi Tianze], and in the summer of 1273 chose Bayan, probably the most gifted and successful military man of his generation, to assume command over the expeditionary forces. A Turk descended from a long line of military officers who had served under the Great Khans, Bayan had, as a youth, accompanied Khubilai's younger brother Hulegu on his campaigns in Persia and the Middle East. He returned eastward in the mid-1260s and quickly established a reputation as an outstanding official...Khubilai offered him progressively greater responsibilities until his crowning assignment as commander-in-chief of the troops in China.

So there you have it, Rossabi claims he was an ethnic Turk who was a descendant of those who had long served the Mongol Khans.--Pericles of Athens^Talk 03:06, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

without citing any evidence, though, or does he? I agree Rossabi is not just some amateur. Yaan (talk) 10:54, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I think Baarin is mongoloid tribe who are descendants of Alangua. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Enerelt (talk • contribs) 10:10, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Needs some writing help

The section about his war with Nayan becomes very choppy, with some unclear sentences, and all references suddenly cease. I will repair a sentence or two, but it needs rewriting and could use some research fill in missing sources. Deliusfan (talk) 04:12, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

no mention of Chinese sources

one might get the false impression from this article that Bayan is only known thanks to Marco Polo, despite having a biography in the 元史 2607:FEA8:AA03:9600:38C4:77C8:3046:9B1E (talk) 08:58, 16 December 2023 (UTC)