Talk:Battle of Binh Ba

Vietnamese spelling in lead

I added the ì as per Bình Ba in lead:

The Battle of Bình Ba (6–8 June 1969), also known as Operation Hammer, was a hard fought, but one-sided, battle during the Vietnam War.

See also WP:VN DISTRICT NAMES RFC for practice with other Vietnam geographical names. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:24, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Disagree. This is not the common name for this battle as used in English language sources - my comments per Talk:Battle_of_Long_Tan#Encyclopedia_of_Vietnam_War_.28Oxford.29_full_spelling_in_lead broadly apply here. Anotherclown (talk) 07:49, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

This is best discussed at that article. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:12, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. Anotherclown (talk) 08:43, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Add Vietnamese sources

The article seems dependent on sources from only one side of the fighting. Lịch sử đá̂u tranh cách mạng của Đảng bộ và nhân dân huyện Châu Đức, 1930-2000 (History of the revolutionary struggle of the People's Party and Chau Duc District, 1930-2000) Nhà xuất bản Chính trị quốc gia, 2004 - 326 pages could supply some additional material. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:24, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

By all means, pls feel free to. There is no reason why it cannot be included as long as it is done appropriately per WP:UNDUE and uses a consistent style IRT references as that adopted in the article as it currently stands. Anotherclown (talk) 07:47, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Vietnamese account of the Battle of Binh Ba - with detailed commentary/corrections now on Sribd - free to read

Hi All, You may wish to include my recent book: The 33rd Regiment - North Vietnamese Army: Their Story (and the Battle of Binh Ba) to your references. I have placed the 128,000-word book on the Internet as free-to-read at: http://www.scribd.com/doc/217396459/The-33rd-Regiment-North-Vietnamese-Army-Their-Story-and-the-Battle-of-Binh-Ba . The 5RAR Association has recently included a brief book review of “The 33rd” on its website: http://www.5rar.asn.au/book-reviews/33rd-regiment.htm  ; and a similar review will appear in the next edition of DVA’s Vetaffairs magazine.

I’ve attempted a “from go to whoa” history of the 33rd NVA Regiment - ie from its founding in the North, fighting in the Central Highlands in late 1965 (against the US 1st Air Cav Div – which was featured in the 2002 Hollywood movie: “We were soldiers ...” with Mel Gibson as US LTCOL Harold Moore), battles in III CTZ/MR3 from late 1968, operations in Cambodia from 1975, and its deployment to the Vietnam-China border in late 1979.

The Regiment – whose average strength was about 1,100, reportedly lost 3,056 KIA (according to its detailed “martyrs’ lists”). However, only about 16% fell in Phuoc Tuy – so much of its history is not relevant to the Australian military experience. However, Australian veterans might find the pages on the Battle of Binh Ba (6-8 June 1969) of particular interest – ie pp.47-84, as that includes the signals intelligence “DF-ing” of the 33rd Regiment “pre/post Binh Ba” (an aspect omitted from the official Australian Army history – “On the Offensive”, 2003). As outlined last year in the D440 Battalion History (2012), recently-acquired Vietnamese material has related that the 33rd Regiment’s 2nd Battalion was sited to ambush (then) Major Murray Blake’s Ready Reaction Force on Route 2 south of Binh Ba on the morning of 6 June. However, that ambush was not initiated – and the reasons still remain somewhat obscure. Had it been “sprung”, the ensuing engagement might have even eclipsed Long Tân in our Vietnam “pantheon”. Best wishes to all, Ernie Chamberlain Erniechamberlain (talk) 02:53, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Recent controversy comment

The following was added to the article by 202.86.32.122 today with this edit [1]. Whilst I think some of this could definitely be included in the article it seems to be written more as a comment than as an encyclopedia entry. It uses rather vague phrases ("some veterans" and "some veteran counseling services") instead of attribution and presents opinion as fact (for instance "There have been attempted covers ups since") and speculation ("if the enemy was so entrenched it is difficult to fathom") etc. As such I am moving the material here for discussion. It will need to be re-written in an NPOV way with inline citations and attribution provided for all points of view to meet the required standard for inclusion in my opinion. As it is this article already mentioned the fact that there were civilian casualties and media claims of an atrocity, although it does not currently do so in detail (please see the Battle of Binh Ba#Aftermath which current includes "Despite efforts to clear the village of civilians before the battle, a large but unknown number of civilians had undoubtedly died during the fighting. This fact, coupled with the one-sided casualty count, later led to claims in the media of an Australian atrocity".) Anotherclown (talk) 02:34, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

The battle was not without some controversy. Some veterans believe there were civilian death and casualties which could have been avoided. (see the Official History by Ekins and O'Neill pages 238 to 240 and end notes 931 and 932). Also see Nation Review July 1980 pages 8 to 11 and ABCs Nationwide 30 June 1980, Parliamentary debates, the subsequent ABC stories and press coverage. There have been attempted cover ups since but many veterans dispute the earlier official accounts. (see also Australians at War pages Binh Ba pages 462 and 463). The allegations were that many of the so called 130 enemy dead were in fact civilians, women and children caught in the cross fire whom the Australians had to bury. As quoted in the Official history, journalist Philip Castle, said; " I don't really think it was a massacre. There is mounting evidence that at worst it was a massacre and at the very best an almighty Army overkill." The view being the Tank commanders were keen to revenge the attack on its vehicles earlier in the day and up to that point had not been in any active battles and wanted prove themselves. If the enemy was so entrenched it is difficult to fathom they only inflicted one death and less than 10 wounded (some minor) on the Australians. Some veteran veteran counselling services still report concerns by returned servicemen for trauma stemming from the Binh Ba battle of June 6 and 7, 1970. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.86.32.122 (talk • contribs) 01:24, 12 January 2016