Talk:Bathwater (song)

Is this song the main meaning of bathwater?

A topic is primary for a term, with respect to usage, if it is highly likely—much more likely than any other topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term. A topic is primary for a term, with respect to long-term significance, if it has substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with that term.

• Is Bathwater (song) much more likely than any other topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for bathwater?

Does Bathwater (song) have substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with bathwater? In ictu oculi (talk) 04:15, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

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External links modified

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• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.nodoubt.com/lyrics/bathwater.asp

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Requested move 22 August 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. There are convincing arguments on both sides, but the consensus leans to moving this article. The most compelling argument on the opposing side is that no other articles are specifically titled "Bathwater". On the other hand, it was noted that bathwater is discussed, both by name and by the general concept of water used for a bath, at Bathing, an article on a universal human practice. It was further suggested that sources are present to extend this coverage, perhaps to the point of creating a separate article. The prominence of the phrase Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater mentioned below, while not a direct competitor itself, speaks to how commonly readers will encounter the word in the context of bathing rather than in what is by all indications a minor No Doubt song. As such, I find the supporting arguments, which are in the majority, stronger. There's no agreement whatsoever that bathing or any other topic should be treated as primary, so Bathwater (disambiguation) will go to the base name. Cúchullain ^t/c 15:07, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

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Bathwater → Bathwater (song) – "The single was a commercial failure, contradicting the overall success of the Return of Saturn project. In the United States, the song failed to enter the Billboard Hot 100 and barely entered the Billboard Adult Top 40 chart, inching to number 39".... Even a WP PRIMARYREDIRECT to Bathwater (song) would make more sense than this. Alternatively redirect to Bathing#Bathing_babies In ictu oculi (talk) 18:30, 22 August 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 ^{talk to me | my contributions} 20:26, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support Redirect to Bathing. Crouch, Swale (talk) 07:26, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose. There's no other article that could be titled "bathwater". The word doesn't even appear anywhere in the article Bathing. Station1 (talk) 07:34, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Station1, for the umpteenth time "There's no other article" is not how titling on Wikipedia works. Please look at WP:TITLE, in particular WP:CRITERIA then WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT. Bathing#Bathing_babies is the nearest thing to a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, topic not title. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:12, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

I disagree. The policy you cite is about titles, not topics. Topics are disambiguated by titles. The article about the topic of bathing would not be titled bathwater and the article about the topic Bathwater would not be titled bathing. As long as two titles are not identical, there is rarely a reason to disambiguate the titles. That is called overprecision. If there could be any confusion about topics, when titles are not identical, we disambiguate topics by other means such as less intrusive hatnotes and/or dab pages or sometimes mention in the article's body or See Also section. Station1 (talk) 16:38, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

You can't disagree; see Hurricane. If we go by titles rather than topics then the plane would be at Hurricane (since Hurricane is a mention in Tropical Cyclone) and WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT wouldn't exist. In ictu oculi (talk) 20:38, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

As I've mentioned to you before, Hurricane points to an article that is about that topic, has thousands of incoming wikilinks and hundreds of views per day, so qualifies as a useful primary redirect. Bathwater doesn't. Comparing the two is like comparing a hurricane to bathwater. Station1 (talk) 16:53, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

But that's not the point - Comparing the two shows that what you keep saying on RMs is incorrect. We don't disambiguate by title, but by topic. In ictu oculi (talk) 22:14, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

As I said, in rare cases, yes. But not usually, because in the large majority of cases it is detrimental to the majority of readers. Station1 (talk) 23:13, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose per User:Station1 and WP:NOTDICT. Water in a bath is not an encyclopedia topic. —  AjaxSmack  21:53, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

If it's not an encyclopedic topic then why is water in a bath covered in the bathing article? Shouldn't that paragraph be deleted to concentrate on baths without water? :) In ictu oculi (talk) 22:16, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

• Primary to: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, but probably a disamg page with bathing, the song, and the saying. Randy Kryn (talk) 16:13, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose – per Staton1 and AjaxSmack's "Water in a bath is not an encyclopedia topic". Carbrera (talk) 20:57, 24 August 2018 (UTC).
• Oppose. This appears to be the primary encyclopedic topic of the term "Bathwater". Most of the proposed redirects come off as fairly strained to me. Nohomersryan (talk) 03:53, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
• Shoulder shrug, then oppose. Per Nohomersryan (is that a baseball reference?) and Station1. Red Slash 22:00, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support: The song is clearly not what most people would expect to find when looking for Bathwater. Too WP:ASTONISHing. —BarrelProof (talk) 04:35, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support per my comment above. Randy Kryn (talk) 22:22, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support per WP:ASTONISH and redirect bathwater to bathing._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 10:09, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support no real evidence for the song being primary topic. Per above, WP:ASTONISH, RD to bathing Lazz_R 10:20, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
• Comment I'd point out that Bathwater (disambiguation) exists, perhaps that can be moved to the base name. Crouch, Swale (talk) 10:36, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
  • Oh. In which case, Support Bathwater (disambiguation) → Bathwater and Bathwater → Bathwater (song). Lazz_R 10:42, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
    • The disambiguation page seems to be a WP:TWODABS and should probably be deleted._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 07:32, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per Station1 and Ajax. This is the only encyclopedic usage of "Bathwater", and WP is not a dictionary. A link to Wiktionary is fine. Dohn joe (talk) 18:22, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
• Comment. A little bit of poking around Google Books suggests to me that there is good potential for expanding content on the topic of bathwater in the bathing article. For example, there are references to scented bathwater, discussions of the right temperature for bathwater, and disposal of bathwater. See Garden Way Publishing, Herbs: 1001 gardening questions answered (1990), p. 68: "Scented bathwater is an old, and lovely, custom. Some nice herbs for this use include angelica, mints, rosemary, and thyme. You can simply add the fresh herbs to the bathwater or chop them and place them on a small piece of cheesecloth, which you can then gather into a bundle and tie with a ribbon". Jill Baker, Technology of the Ancient Near East: From the Neolithic to the Early Roman Period (2018), p. 303: "Disposal of bathwater was probably done by bailing the water from the tub or trough and pouring it onto the sealed bathroom floor so that the water could drain into a soakaway or the public drainage system"; Patricia Ann Potter, ‎Anne Griffin Perry, Fundamentals of Nursing (2005), p. 191: "Always check bathwater temperature; adjust hot-water heater temperature to 48.9° C (120° F) or lower; do not allow children to play with faucets"; etc. bd2412 T 21:05, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
• Support. An obscure song, and a common word that features in a very common saying. Landing at the song would be astonishing for many, suffixing with "(song)" only makes it more recognizable with no downsides. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 04:18, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.