Talk:Basilisk (manga)

"Compelling reason" for spoiler

OK, so I realise now that I've entered into a policy war on spoilers, but before even knowing about that, I had the experience of reading the article, getting to the characters section, and realising that, in giving details on the characters, the section gave away large portions of the plot.

This is also somewhat deceptive, as the plot summary section specifically does not contain any information not given in the first episode of the series, or presumably the first manga. Since the nature of the anime/manga is that most of the core characters die during the series, and the manner and timing of their deaths is extremely important to the plot, not having a spoiler warning on the characters section is likely to result in most of the plot being given away, which would "substantially diminish many readers' ... enjoyment of the work". -Kieran 12:31, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Merger

Support -Squilibob 00:55, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Name format

This article features the names of fictional characters, which are presented in western order in other anime articles, but not here. Since it seems to be policy to follow the dub in this case, should this be changed?

In addition, the historical character names listed at the bottom of the page are presented in western order here, but they link to biographical pages which list their name in japanese order. Since these are real characters whose real names are not ordered in western style, should this be changed?

And just for the sake of it, why does Wikipedia even follow the secondary source, the dub of an anime, in preference to the real thing to begin with?

The article predates the R1 (English) release. Western order should be used now that it is the most common in English-speaking parts of the world, with a note added to that effect. --Meersan 13:38, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles) for style guidelines on naming and other issues in articles related to Japanese subjects. --Meersan 13:41, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

OK, thanks for that. --AvatarZero 23:05, 28 August 2006 (GMT)

Associating deaths with episodes?

It is a nontrivial aspect of the anime that people die in almost every episode. I think it would be great to include a very small obituary column into the anime episodes list. Unfortunately, that table is created from a template. Is there some way around this? Would creating a second table just listing the episode number, English name, and who died be an acceptable alternative?

Another option would be to introduce a second listing of characters but putting it in order of death and with a brief description of the manner and cause of death. This has the benefit that it applies equally to the anime and the manga. -- Lilwik 09:31, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Bizarre edit in Trivia section. Is this vandalism?

There used to be an entry in the trivia section that looked like this:

• The Funimation English dub of the anime actually uses Japanese honorifics when dubbed.

It is not a great bit of writing, since it redundently tells us that it was dubbed twice, but it is easy enough to see what it means and it is true.

In a recent edit, it was replaced by this:

• The Funimation English sub of the anime uses the original credits written in Japanese honorifics when played.

Is this vandalism? It is replacing a meaningful bit of trivia with something that makes no sense to me as an English sentence. I can only guess that it is trying to say that the credits use honorifics in the subbed version, but that is ridiculous. I have never seen Japanese credits that include honorifics, and I am sure that Basilisk does not include them either. (I am so sure that I haven't bothered to check, so correct me if I am wrong.) I'd just revert this without mentioning anything here, but I tried that before and now it is back.

I want to replace the above with:

• The Funimation English dub of the anime keeps many of the original Japanese honorifics.

I would like to say that it keeps them all, but it is so tempting to drop the honorifics in English and I have no way of knowing if some of them have been dropped. I know that there are many occasions when honorifics are not used in the English dub, but the honorifics might not have been there in the original Japanese.

Unfortunately, if I do make the replacement, I have no reason to expect it to stay there and not be quickly re-vandalized. -- Lilwik 03:45, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

It's amazing; Even after all this time with no response to this on the talk page, someone is still defending this vandalism by almost immediately replacing it the moment I try to remove it. I thought for sure that whoever is doing this had gone away. Whoever you are, why don't you at least explain what you are trying to say with this? -- Lilwik 09:37, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I usually don't participate in edit wars, but in this case I think I will make an exception because it is so curious. In 7 days I plan to again remove this bizarre statement that is pretending to be trivia. If anyone has any objections, just put them here and I will cancel my plans to remove this bit of junk. If anyone at all has any reason to want this item to stay, just make it known and I will forget about trying to remove it, no matter what the reason is, even if it seems like nonsense. -- Lilwik 04:53, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Anime Films?

I've just noticed that this article is in the Anime films category. The Basilisk anime is a series, not a movie, and the Basilisk movie is not anime. It seems to be a mistake to put this article in that category. -- Lilwik 02:37, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Photographs in Manga?

A recent addition to the article says that the backgrounds in the manga are 90% black & white photographs. I am looking at volume 3 of the manga right now and it is very difficult to determine if this is true by looking. In some places the photographs seem clear, but often the background is obscured enough so that I cannot tell if it was drawn by hand. The number 90% seems much higher than I would have guessed. I think we need to cite some reference for this fact in addition to the manga itself. -- Lilwik 01:02, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Oboro's Nanny

The entry in this article for Oboro's nanny seems to be largely speculation to me. Oboro's nanny appeared only in episode 16 and as far as I can tell there is no cast listing for her. I cannot find anything to support Naoko Suzuki as the voice actress for Oboro's nanny, so if that is a fact then we should cite a reference for it.

Despite that Oboro's nanny has a different appearance and a different voice, she looks and acts a lot like Akeginu. Akeginu is in the cast list in episode 16 and Oboro's nanny is not. I strongly suspect that Oboro's nanny is actually supposed to be a younger version of Akeginu, portrayed by the same actress but making her voice sound younger. That would explain the lack of a entry in the cast list.

In the article this is explained by guessing that Akeginu and the nanny are relatives, but that is just wild speculation. The article is also guessing that the grave Oboro was visiting belonged to the nanny, but I see no reason to believe that. The grave is shown so briefly that even if I could read Japanese I doubt it is possible to recognize who the grave belongs to, and the nanny was never given a name so even if I could read the grave I could not connect it to the nanny.

If anyone reading this can also read Japanese, please let us know what the grave in episode 16 says, and if it really does belong to Oboro's nanny. -- Lilwik 02:17, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Also, the nanny (or perhaps birth-mother given how she answers the second Hanzo's question whether Oboro is her child) is last shown telling young Oboro that she will be able to see Gennosuke again someday and saying her name as she hugs her; the cut scene immediately following shows an older Oboro with Akeginu calling her name and engaging in a similar sort of affection as Akeginu fixes Oboro's makeup before her second meeting with Gennosuke. Given the data about the credits and this circumstantial evidence, it seems like a fair conclusion that Akeginu is the same person as the nanny, just older -- or at least that is a supported possibility.

I agree that it is a supported possibility, but that sort of inference is not for us to make as editors of an encyclopedia. We must restrict ourselves to absolutely indisputable facts from the series or reporting the conclusions that others have made. If we could get a quote from the producers or writers of the show that would confirm it, then it could be in the article, but otherwise it is out-of-place. -- Lilwik 01:11, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

The nanny was named Neeya. Oboro says her name while praying at her grave in the original sub but her name wasn't included in the dub. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.99.86.89 (talk) 03:35, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

And do we know that that's the Nanny's name in the same way? I mean, if Oboro says it there but nowhere else then we have no way of knowing who Neeya is. Of course, now that I know that I can watch that episode in the original Japanese and listen for the word Neeya. It's odd that she doesn't have a place in the cast list since she did have a speaking role. -- Lilwik 09:32, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Later that same episode, where it displayed how Oboro and Gennosuke first met, Oboro calls her Neeya (at least she does in the sub) when it comes time for her to be introduced to Hattori Hanzo the 2nd. Also; there's no credible proof in either the anime, manga, or original novel that Akeginu is Oboro's mother so for the sake of avoiding plagiarism it would be best to not mention it in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.99.86.89 (talk) 00:20, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Shinobi movie

The movie Shinobi seems to be based on this manga/anime maybe it should be mentioned

I haven't seen it but based upon what I have read it seems to be very different. I think it is more based upon the original novel, The Kouga Ninja Scrolls, and it is mentioned on that page as one of the adaptations, along with the manga and anime. I have been planning on improving that article for a while, since I've got a copy of that book. (The title is a bit odd, isn't it? Even in the novel the Iga won in the end, so why is it the Kouga ninja scrolls?) -- Lilwik 20:40, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Maybe because it's about fictional Kouga ninja scrolls detailing they're defeat... Moocowsrule (talk) 10:14, 10 August 2008 (UTC)Moocowsrule

Article moved, double redirects

I see that this article has been moved from "Basilisk: The Kouga Ninja Scrolls" to "Basilisk (manga)". Of course, this article is about the anime as much as the manga. In fact, it might even be more about the anime than the manga.

This move has lead to redirect pages leading to redirect pages. That should probably be fixed, but before I do that I'd like to know that this is not something that will be immediately undone. Are we happy with this change? — Lilwik 09:14, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Spoiler warning

Is there a compelling reason for the spoiler warning on this article? (i.e. material that hasn't been published in English yet, material that just came out, etc?) Phil Sandifer 15:16, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Did you even bother to read this page? Just a glance would have shown up my comment above. There is nothing in the spoiler guideline saying there is a time limit on spoiler templates. This has even been discussed on the guideline talk page. Please stop with your blanket applications of your interpretation of a highly disputed guideline. -Kieran 10:08, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

This doesn't seem to be a coherent reason for placing a spoiler warning. I'm going to remove it again. --Tony Sidaway 10:10, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Sigh. Well, "compelling reason" is pretty subjective. But, since it is next to impossible to use a spoiler warning on Wikipedia, since it's nearly impossible to provide reasons that the spoiler warning removalist edit warriors will accept, there's no point in me fighting this. Good luck to anyone else who believes this article needs a spoiler warning. -Kieran 11:17, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

"On the other hand you might encounter a list of characters in a novel, in the article about the novel. It's conceivable that there might be something unexpected in there, for instance if a key plot element hinges on the undisclosed identity of a major character. It may not be obvious to the reader that this section will give away the plot." (Comment by Tony Sidaway on Wikipedia_talk:Spoiler#Absurdity). This is the case here. Please discuss this, in the context of your knowledge of the series, if you want to remove the spoiler tag. -Kieran 12:28, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

I've renamed the character section "Character biographies" to clarify that it will contain plot elements. The spoiler tag is not necessary. --Tony Sidaway 12:58, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't think "biographies" is descriptive enough, so I've extended the name to be more descriptive. -Kieran 14:36, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I'm not a regular wikipedia commenter or editor, so my formatting here might be duff, feel free to fix it. This article _definitely_ deserves/needs a spoiler warning - the characters biographies effectively give away the plot of the entire series with no warning or explanation. Tony's semantic shift to "biographies" or even "backgrounds" isn't enough. I just wanted a summary of the various characters, and have now had the entire series explicated. Whether or not this is 'right' policy-wise I have no idea, but it's definitely not common practice on wikipedia, and I think it's kinda unecessary.

Per WP:SPOILER, spoilers are not to be avoided in articles, nor are they to be explicitly marked. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and in the course of writing encyclopedic content on series and fictional characters, it is necessary to highlight all major plot points. Contrary to what you seem to think, this *is* standard practice on Wikipedia. 「ダイノガイ千？！」^{? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000} 11:45, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Basilisk Iga.jpg

Image:Basilisk Iga.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 07:27, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Basilisk Kouga.jpg

Image:Basilisk Kouga.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 07:29, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

about the japanese name

the article says the japanese name of the show is "Basilisk (バジリスク甲賀忍法帖, Basilisk Kōga Ninpō Chō?)". shouldnt it say "Basilisk (バジリスク 〜甲賀忍法帖〜, Basilisk 〜Kōga Ninpō Chō〜?)", since that is the name as it appears in the japanese wikipedia (with the 〜 signs) Jim88Argentina (talk) 21:51, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Unlisted episode?

In the most recent IFC airing of the series, an episode titled "Unveiled" aired - however, this episode is not listed anywhere online that I can find. I also can't really remember what happened in the episode. Anyone else see this, and any ideas on what the deal with it is? 「ダイノガイ千？！」^{? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000} 05:47, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

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