Talk:Banco Central burglary at Fortaleza

article title

I can't help but think there could be a better title for this article. Looking at the List of famous bank robbers and robberies, I'm not sure we yet have a consistent naming conventon, but it feels like there should be one. -- Solipsist 20:49, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Definitely. In fact, I have suggested that the Banco Central do Brasil article itself be moved to a more suitable title. It seems the same would apply here. Regards, Redux 16:17, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Length of tunnel

Many news source disagree on the length of the tunnel. They divide into two camps at 80m or 200m. BBC, and the Independent go with 200m.

Bloomberg initially went with 200m Bloomberg update 1 but later changed to 80m update 5. -- Solipsist 21:04, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

I added a link to the bank's own news release, which states 200m. --Dhartung | Talk 01:48, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

I think the 200m information is wrong, all brazilian news source support the 80m size, you can check it into anywhere. --Onsly | Onsly 22:78, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Artificial Turf Company

Can anyone think of a reasonable explanation for one needing to remove large amounts of soil each day to create artificial turf? When I thought about it, the fact that the neighbors of the robbers bought this explanation is a bit mad...unless, of course, I'm missing something. I would suggest removing the phrase but understood this to be a normal activity of the business until it's clear why anyone in their right mind would believe such a thing. The article would then be a bit less confusing. Snowmanmelting 03:12, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps they thought the soil was artificial turf?  The Steve  06:20, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

That's believable. Perhaps the residents didn't see exactly what was being hauled out of the building (and assumed it was artificial turf) but only later realized that it was soil. And reading below, it makes a bit more sense for burglars to claim to sell artificial turf, plants and the like. Of course, a company that will gladly give you roughly fifty cubic meters of soil that's fresh from beneath the center of Fortaleza would have been a touch suspicious. Snowmanmelting 14:33, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

I'll be honest: I wouldn't have given it a second thought. Lawn/artificial turf company + lots of grass being hauled off = blissful ignorance. I don't ever question the sight of construction and say, "Hey, I bet there's a tunnel being dug underground!" I would have been just like the neighbors; it makes perfect sense to me. --BucInExile 13:49, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

the federal police spokeswoman ... said the thieves had renovated the house and put up a sign indicating it was a landscaping company selling plants and natural and artificial grass [1] so it wasn't just turf, although the implications of a sign saying "synthetic lawns" tilt that way. --Dhartung | Talk 06:59, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Couldn't this be added to the article? Snowmanmelting 14:33, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

i tried my hand at incorporating it. now to add the hyperlink(forgot i wasn't in mozilla). 63.113.199.109

Well there's no way I ever would have come to think there might be a tunnel, I just would have thought it was strange and then forgotten about it. Hah, I'll certainly be watching those construction-types carefully from now on. Snowmanmelting 14:33, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Well if you are going to be vigilant, remember to also keep an eye out for body sacks going into a construction site. There is a long tradition of disposing of dead bodies and other incriminating evidence in the concrete foundations of large buildings... (at least I'm pretty sure I've seen a film like that). -- Solipsist 16:30, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Frequency - 63.113.199.109

Burgled!

A robbery requires violence or the threat of violence. Since the "robbers" merely broke in and stole the money, it is properly a "burglary".

With that, should someone fix the main page so it points here instead of redirecting through the old name? C14 05:10, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

I've changed every instance of the word robbery in the article to burglary (or burglars, as necessary). General rule: If you break into someone's house while they're home and threaten them to take their stuff, you're a robber. If you sneak in while they're out and sneak out with stolen items, you're a burglar. If you steal an article that is not necessarily on the owner's property, you've commited larceny.

The usual colloquialism is heist. On google bank.heist nets 55K results, bank.burglary just 1200. bank.robbery is far more common yet, and despite formal definitions, is being used in the news stories about this. --Dhartung | Talk 06:55, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

i'm a fan of heist. btw, this story has to be the most awesomest story ever. it's a shame it ends with murder and conspiracy. either a shame or a hell of a story, because this story has to be the most awesome story ever. -- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.113.199.109 (talk • contribs) 07:09, 21 February 2006.

I think it's also fair to say that most of the time banks are illegally stripped of their assets in such a way, it is an actual "robbery" with the violence critereon. Google has less "bank burglary" hits because bank burglaries are far less common, clandestine tunnels being virtually the only way they can be pulled off, in the modern era, atleast. Also, bank robbery is used as an umbrella term it seems, probably because it sounds nicer. That said, I think the benefits of elucidating for many the difference between robbery and burglary trumps the need for an asthetically pleasing sound bite.

Ah, a true pedant. Then you'll appreciate that in the United States, burglary is only the breaking and entering part of the crime; taking the money is theft. Additionally, the federal crime is known as bank robbery regardless of tunnel use. Perhaps the article must be retitled "Banco Central burglary and theft at Fortaleza". Otherwise, you may take up this violation of terminology with the United States Congress. --Dhartung | Talk 09:01, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Typical Americans. Um, the article is about Brazil. Who cares what the situation is in the USA. Troyac 09:45, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Then we better call it a roubo or furto. -- Plutor 16:53, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Not quite – in the United California Bank robbery the gang used explosives to blow a hole in the roof of the bank vault. GCarty (talk) 14:50, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Ahh, but there is a handy get out here. Given the vaguaries of the choice of international exchange rate and inflation, it would take an economist to decide whether this heist or the Knightsbridge one was more valuable. But the Knightsbridge job definately used violence, so that can be the 'World's biggest robbery' and this one can be the 'World's biggest burglary'. -- Solipsist 16:40, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

GPS?

GPS only works when it has a clear view of the sky. I don't see what value it would be digging a tunnel. --RoySmith 12:33, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Indeed. And I actually heard that the perpetrators have used maps of the city sewers and piping. Apparently, those were used so that they knew how deep the tunnel would have to be, and also for orientation underground. Regards, Redux 16:23, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Updates

I have already loaded an update on the investigations at the Brazil Wikiportal (In The News section). I intend to add more as the media releases more information, so feel free to visit and use whatever information you see fit in this article. Regards, Redux 16:23, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

You could read online updates about it in portuguese here --> http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/especial/2005/furtonobancocentral/

This article (in portuguese) presents the point of view of the investigator in charge. In particular, he dismisses versions presented in a book and in a movie, stating that these versions are far from reality. He also briefly describes the entire story and accounts for the total amount of money recovered. http://noticias.uol.com.br/cotidiano/ultimas-noticias/2011/07/23/nao-ha-como-recuperar-mais-dinheiro-do-assalto-ao-bc-diz-delegado-dois-estao-foragidos.htm Frgomes (talk) 04:00, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Unusual

I couldnt stop laughing when i heard this, its like something that happens in a cartoon.

Citations??

Where are ANY citations? All of them just say [citation needed]. Anyone know how to write a citation banner or something at the top? Did someone delete them or something? We need reinforcements TheFirstVicar4 Feb 4, 2021

There are only 12 links listed in the references section on the bottom, but 20 [citation needed] things. I didn't write this article so I don't know which reference matches up to which. TheFirstVicar4 Feb 4, 2021

I added one of those citation banners at the top, it should bring attention now TheFirstVicar4 Feb 5, 2021