Talk:Ballymaloe House

Sir Edmund Fitz John Fitz-Gerald of Cloyne and Ballymaloe

The following contribution was removed without discussion which for me demonstrated a significant lack of awareness as to just how important Sir Edmund was to Ballymaloe House so I'm re-adding here on this Talk page so that information maybe collected, collated chronologically for inclusion over time, Honora Fitzmaurice, second daughter of James FitzMaurice FitzGerald of Desmond, married [2ndly] Sir Edmund Fitz John Fitz-Gerald of Cloyne and Ballymaloe.Matthew (talk) 05:53, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Further to the above,

James Fitzedmund Fitzgerald, "(died 1589, Dublin Castle) was the hereditary Seneschal of Imokilly, an Irish nobleman of the Welsh-Norman FitzGerald dynasty in the province of Munster, who rebelled against the crown during the reign of Queen Elizabeth of England.

Fitzgerald was the son of Edmund Fitzmaurice Riskald and Shylie, daughter of Maolrony O'Carroll," "married Honora Fitzmaurice, who bore him male twins in about 1589, and two daughters. His heir was granted in wardship, at the age of one and a half years, to one Captain Moyle."Matthew (talk) 22:39, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

"1611-1617 : Then a strange marriage takes place: Sir John’s second son Edmund married Lady Honoria Fitzgerald, the widowed daughter of James FitzMaurice, leader of the Geraldine war. Her first husband was cousin and name sake of Sir John. This marriage was typical of Norman behaviour, strong ties of kinship and clan intermarriage. Records indicate that old Sir John was very found of Honoria. She was a charming and genteel woman and hid persecuted monks fleeing from Youghal and protected holy relics, of which a little ivory carving -10cm in height of “our Lady of Grace” she even had a special silver case made for the statue with an inscription that read “pray for the soul of Honoria” . Currently displayed in the Dominican Priory, Cork, St Mary’s Pope, Quay."Ballymaloe House – History MAY 23, 2012 BY ANNEMARIE FOLEY Matthew (talk) 22:53, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

History of the House

Circa 1450 - Ballymaloe, A Norman Castle, is built by a branch of [t]he Fitzgerald family, illegitimate descendants of the Knights of Kerry. Corn & Cattle on the land.

1578-1583 - Geraldine Wars (Desmond Rebellions) rages in the vicinity. Cattle seized and the corn burnt.

March 1602 - The owner, John FitzEdmund Fitzgerald knighted at Ballymaloe by Lord Mountjoy for his neutrality at the Battle of Kinsale.

1611-1617 - Lady Hanoria Fitzgerald, mistree of Ballymaloe, hid monks fleeing from Youghal and protected holy relic now displayed in the Dominican Priory, Cork.

1620's - The owner, Sir John FitzEdmund Fitzgerald is said to be 'one of the best estate commoners in Ireland'. Ballymaloe becomes one of the last great Anglo-Norman households.

1641-1679 - House passes to Lord Broghill. Cromwell and William Penn visit Ballymaloe. The South Wing is built.

this History is a key core area of my mother's father's FitzGerald family history & tree that isn't at this time really clear to me because recorded names are confused, I've been slowly collecting, collating, chronologically, FitzGerald family history at my 10xGreat Grandfather,

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Mifren&pe=1&#Tenth_Generation

William FITZGERALD of Lisquinlan was born in 1600 in Lisquinlan. He died in 1650.

216, it is stated that Sir John Fitzgerald (m Ellen Barry*) of Ballymaloe, by a codicil to his Will, dated December, 1640, bequeathed to William Fitzgerald of Lisquinlan the .

Journal Page 166 by Michigan State Medical Society, William L. Clements Library - 1915

Fitzgerald of Cloyne

"Maurice, younger brother of John FitzThomas of the Decies, above, was the father of Sir Richard FitzGerald of Imokilly in County Cork. His son Richard was Seneschal of Imokilly; his son Maurice had two sons, Richard and Edmund. Richard FitzGerald was the father of William, father of James FitzGerald called 'the Deacon.' James was the father of Edmund Fitzgerald [of Ballymaloe House], father of (1) our ancestor Ellen, married Dermod O'Brien, 5th Lord of Inchiquin, (2) Honora, married Patrick FitzMaurice, 19th Baron of Kerry, and (3) James FitzGerald of Cloyne, who was a royalist during the Civil Wars and willed his large estates to Charles I. After the Restoration in 1660, Charles II restored the estates to James' son Edmund Fitzgerald of Ballymallow in Cork."

Irish Pedigrees Vol. II

14. Edmund, the Deacon : his son.

15. Sir John, of Cloyne (Sir Seann O'Cluoin, or Seann Mor), Knt. :

was one of the largest estate-owners in Ireland ; willed his estate to King Charles I. but, on the Restoration, Charles II. restored it to Sir John's eldest son, Edmund, of Ballymalow*

Ballymalow : See the "Acts of Settlement and Explanation," pp. 93-94 (Dublin : 1665).

"Many of the Old English lost their property. In the barony of Imokilly ... The Old English Earl of Barrymore survived the upheavals of the 1650s, as did some of the Fitzgeralds of Imokilly. Although the Ballymaloe (in Cloyne) Geraldines appear to have taken no part in the rebellion, which began in 1641, they, like the remainder of the Catholic gentry, were dispossessed in the early but of all their lands. Ballinacurra (near Midleton) and the surrounding townlands were given to Col Richard Fitzgerald of the Castlemartyr family.23 ... In Imokilly a third of those losing land were Old English families, this including twenty-two Fitzgeralds." In the North and South Liberties Terrys of Cork 1600-2000: A Local Historical Perspective By Kevin Terry, Christopher Terry, Bernard Terry, Diarmuid Uaconaill Contributor Christopher Terry, Diarmuid Uaconaill Published by Terrys of Cork, 2005 ISBN 0954740912, 9780954740917 289 pages http://books.google.com.au/books?id=ZxMbHNFwMjgC&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=Sir+John+Fitzgerald+of+Ballymaloe&source=web&ots=fdGRP0_2aX&sig=yR1Z4jprFyCBjOhdQWL5E4yN6RQ&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result#PPA46,M1

http://www.martinrealm.org/genealogy/fitzgerald.htm

"Maurice Cuffe MP of Killaghy (St. Albans, Kilkenny) (b 1681, d 4 October 1766) shown by Lodge as 3rd son m1. (06.02 1718) Martha FitzGerald (d 12 Aug 1728, dau of John FitzGerald of Ballymaloe, widow of William Hartpole of Shrule & Richard Power)"

Main source(s): BP1934 (Desart) , Lodge's 'Peerage of Ireland' (1789, vol VI, Cuffe, Viscount Desart) http://www.stirnet.com/main/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=48&Itemid=134

"And now another woman of mystery enters the history of Glin in the form of Anne ('Nancy') Cuffe, who becomes for a short time, wife to Edmond, Knight of Glin. Anne (born February 1721)(110) was the second of seven daughters of Maurice Cuffe of St. Albans, otherwise Killaghy, Co. Kilkenny by his first wife Martha, daughter of John Fitzgerald of Ballymaloe, Co. Cork. (111) Maurice was a brother of the 1st Lord Desart and a M.P. and K.C. Anne who has been described as 'a popular Protestant beauty from Kilkenny' married the still Catholic Knight of Glin in March 1740. (112) In a letter written sometime after the marriage, by her cousin Lady Theodosia Crosbie to her sister, Lady Mary Tighe (nee Bligh) we read: 'if Nancy (Anne) is married to the Knight of the Glin as they say, she (Anne's mother) has disposed of 'em (Anne and her sisters) all very well.' (113) For some reasons unknown (Edmonds' mounting debts, perhaps) this marriage was a failure. They went their separate ways thereafter. Edmond vainly tried to regain possession of Glin after Richard's conversion when he too, turned Protestant in October 1741. (114) In a deed of September 1750, Edmond is referred to as unmarried. (115) His former wife Anne married on the 15th of February 1766 her second cousin, as his second wife, Denny Baker Cuffe of Cuffesborough, Kings' Co. (mod. Offaly) who died 10 years later (116) Anne died shortly there after on the 24th October 1776(117)" http://www.askaboutireland.ie/reading-room/history-heritage/big-houses-of-ireland/glin-castle-co.-limerick/the-four-brothers/edmond-fitzgerald-20th-kn/ Matthew (talk) 20:42, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

"Dining Room http://www.askaboutireland.ie/reading-room/history-heritage/big-houses-of-ireland/glin-castle-co.-limerick/a-guide-to-the-house-and-/dining-room/index.xml

There is no decorative plasterwork in the dining room which suggests that the money was already beginning to run out even while the work was proceeding on the ground floor. This room contains the family portrait collection.

East wall, nearest the door Below left

Mary FitzGerald, who died in 1753, known as the 'Bean tighearna' or ' Female Chieftain', wife of Thomas FitzGerald whose portrait hangs opposite. She was a redoubtable lady who used to rustle the cattle of her Protestant neighbours during the Famine years of 1739-41, bringing them back to feed her tenantry at Glin. She was the descendant of the FitzGeralds, Seneschals of Immokilly in Co. Cork, whose family properties included Castle Martyr and Ballymaloe.

The medieval amulet or charm of agate, for curing cattle disease, belonging to that family is in the vitrine in the hall." Matthew (talk) 21:08, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

"John Meade of Ballintober (b 1767, d 1876?) m. Alice Corker (dau of Chambre Corker of Ballymaloe and Glanmire, archdeacon of Ardagh, granddau of _ Browne, Archbishop of Tuam)"

Main source(s): BP1934 (Clanwilliam) http://www.stirnet.com/main/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=79&startUrl=http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/british/mm4ae/meade01.htm Matthew (talk) 14:34, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Reply

It is not that I don't want it into the article. I removed it as being to vague to be useful in een article about a restaurant. Your source does not gove a date of marriage, so it was hanging in thin air.

As I suggested on my talkpage, it might be usefull to add a section "The Fitz-Gerald of Cloyne and Ballymaloe House" to cover the pre-Allen-family history. The Banner _talk 16:01, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Hence me doing my best to collect & collate chronologically historical, referenced information I've found over time eg

Landed Estates Database

http://landedestates.nuigalway.ie:8080/LandedEstates/jsp/property-show.jsp?id=3643 published,

"William Abbot was resident at Ballymaloe in 1814. It was described by Lewis in 1837 as a "very curious old house, built by the Fitzgeralds and forfeited in the war of 1641, it is now the property of Mr Forster" . By the early 1850s John Litchfield [Lichfield] was resident holding the house valued at £48 from Mountifort Longfield. It was the seat of William Lichfield in 1894. It is now the home of the Allen family who run it as a guest house with adjacent shop. Their renowned cookery school is nearby. see http://www.ballymaloe.ie/

Townland: Ballymaloe More

Civil Parish: Kilmahon

Poor Law Union: Middleton

DED: Ightermurragh 262

Barony: Imokilly

County: Cork

OS Sheet Number: 89

OSI Grid Reference: W948 680

Latitude / Longitude: 51.86432 -8.07549"

Seneschals of Imokilly

Given Sir John Fitzedmund Fitzgerald also apparently became Seneschal of Imokilly as a result of his namesake cousin's death, I'm wondering if we could also work up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mifren/Seneschal_of_Imokilly into meeting wikipedia standards? Matthew (talk) 22:15, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Macroom Oatmeal

I disagree. This is a food that foodies go looking for. It may seem like trivia to you, but to me it's important information. valereee (talk) 17:02, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

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child pornography

This doesn't seem relevant to the subject. I despise child pornographers as much as the next person, but shouldn't this go into an article about Tim Allen or the cookery school or Darina Allen? valereee (talk) 16:33, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

I have removed it as it is just an attempt of shaming with no relevance for the restaurant or manor. The Banner talk 17:11, 27 October 2018 (UTC)