Talk:Avianca Flight 011

Verifying tale

Many preachers seem to be telling a story of a pilot who ignored a GPWS (Ground Proximity Warning System) warning, saying "shut up, gringo!". This flight seems to be the most likely candidate from the details of the story. Are there transcripts of the cockpit voice recorder of this incident to verify this account? [1] (third paragraph down) 05:58, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

What happened to the flight number?

Today, flight 011 operates only from Madrid to Bogotá.

accident cause

Even if the pilot made a was intercepting the localizer at the wrong angle, how did the aircraft descend below the MDA? I thought standard ILS procedure was to maintain a certain altitude (prescribed by ATC) until the glideslope capture occurs. Wouldn't the pilot/copilot/flight engineer have seen on the radio altimeter that the pilot was descending too fast?

This article makes no sense

So you write, the aircraft captured the ils as is standard, but on the wrong track. What do you mean on the wrong track, you can't capture an ils on the wrong track. Then you write they descended below the MDA, an ils doesn't have an MDA, it has a DH. And then you say THIS CAUSED the pilot to begin a right turn? That doesn't make sense at all! Do pilots always make a right turn when descending below MDA or DH or whatever you're trying to say.

Where did you get this information from. It's nonsense in the way it is described here!

Either correct it or delete the whole article.

Mantyla —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mantyla (talk • contribs) 21:31, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I think it should read something like: They didn't know their position, assumed they were somewhere else, made a turn to what they thought to be the right track for intercepting the ILS signal, failed to check the information about their target and descended below all the safety margins for the area.84.197.187.119 (talk) 01:54, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Copyright violation

It also looks like it was copied word for word from the Aviation Safety Network article. Camcurwood (talk) 17:21, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Only four/five years later: the copied text has been deleted by me, it still matches the source closely, the origin is from September 2008. A rewrite will be necessary, also deletion of all the previous versions is recommended. --Mopskatze (talk) 16:05, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

See also Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Aviation/Aviation accident task force#Copyright violation (from ASN only?) in various articles --Mopskatze (talk) 18:30, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the fix --Mopskatze (talk) 22:24, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Uhm: Talk:Avianca Flight 011/Temp is also a rewrite; sorry for the duplicate effort, it is necessary to coordinate using this talk page. --Mopskatze (talk) 23:08, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Since I mainly removed the text, it should be easy to merge the two versions. Sorry for the mess.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:22, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Documents

• http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/PUBLICACIONES/HISTORICOS/A-042-1983/
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642Tm4SJy
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/PUBLICACIONES/HISTORICOS/A-042-1983/avianca_sinopsis.htm
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642UJIrav
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/PUBLICACIONES/HISTORICOS/A-042-1983/avianca_1_1.htm
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642U4GBct
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/PUBLICACIONES/HISTORICOS/A-042-1983/avianca_1_2.htm
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642U5cZ6F
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/PUBLICACIONES/HISTORICOS/A-042-1983/avianca_1_3.htm
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642U76bJD
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/PUBLICACIONES/HISTORICOS/A-042-1983/avianca_1_4.htm
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642U8btGQ
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/PUBLICACIONES/HISTORICOS/A-042-1983/avianca_1_5.htm
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642UAJ4nU
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/PUBLICACIONES/HISTORICOS/A-042-1983/avianca_1_6.htm
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642UBwxCW
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/PUBLICACIONES/HISTORICOS/A-042-1983/avianca_1_7.htm
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642UDNj8u
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/PUBLICACIONES/HISTORICOS/A-042-1983/avianca_1_8.htm
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642UEqpNn
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/PUBLICACIONES/HISTORICOS/A-042-1983/avianca_1_9.htm
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642UGagma
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/PUBLICACIONES/HISTORICOS/A-042-1983/avianca_1_10.htm
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642UKlQ2A
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/PUBLICACIONES/HISTORICOS/A-042-1983/avianca_1_11.htm
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642WJD7qq
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/PUBLICACIONES/HISTORICOS/A-042-1983/avianca_1_12.htm
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642WKmEeP
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/PUBLICACIONES/HISTORICOS/A-042-1983/avianca_1_13.htm
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642WOzXX4
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/PUBLICACIONES/HISTORICOS/A-042-1983/avianca_1_14.htm
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642WQGmWx
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/PUBLICACIONES/HISTORICOS/A-042-1983/avianca_1_15.htm
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642WRaFZ4
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/PUBLICACIONES/HISTORICOS/A-042-1983/avianca_1_16.htm
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642WinYRe
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/PUBLICACIONES/HISTORICOS/A-042-1983/avianca_1_17.htm
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642WkVsR0
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/PUBLICACIONES/HISTORICOS/A-042-1983/avianca_analisis.htm
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642Wm4zEb
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/PUBLICACIONES/HISTORICOS/A-042-1983/avianca_conclusiones.htm
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642WnLUyw
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/PUBLICACIONES/HISTORICOS/A-042-1983/avianca_recomendaciones.htm
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642WogGsu
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/D53C568D-2A84-490B-BEE0-9EC81EE287C4/8766/Anexo_A.pdf
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642TpRPVj
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/B185E98B-B2DD-4419-8C64-0154F365CCE1/8768/Anexo_B.pdf
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642TsWEmX
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/C9BDF038-2A7D-4D1A-AD04-3DCB9A253B1F/8770/Anexo_C.pdf
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642TypCDr
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/FF780C3D-D000-48F3-B6FA-D559E554ACBD/8771/Anexo_D.pdf
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642U0Bs9w
• http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/F1DD1F0F-4F1C-4C47-833E-F10190D9D7B2/8773/Fotos.pdf
  • http://www.webcitation.org/642TqjXcc

WhisperToMe (talk) 03:11, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Rewrite

Ok, I've completely rewritten the article's body from scratch, using at least one source in addition to ASN's report. This new page is at [2] but I don't know what is supposed to happen next. Eaglizard (talk) 08:57, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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A bit confused.

It says that 23 or 19 crew members were on-board the flight, but which one is the correct one? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.133.140.233 (talk) 02:52, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

Unfortunately I don't speak Spanish, so I can't read the original investigation report... Aviation Safety Network (listed in External Links) gives these numbers:

• Crew Fatalities 19 / 19
• Passengers Fatalities 162 / 173
• Total Fatalities 181 / 192

Corresponding article in Spanish Wiki agrees.

For now, I'll put these numbers back to the article. If anyone knows any good source with different numbers - please cite it! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Igusarov (talk • contribs) 14:33, 3 March 2017 (UTC) Sorry, I forgot to sign this. Igusarov (talk) 14:39, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Question

Can someone add the nationalities, to this page? I know that several passengers were from Spain, Mexico, Argentina, Peru, and Uruguay. But on a page there was mostly Germans and French nationals, and some passengers from Sweden were also on-board. It was not immediately known if there were any United States citizens aboard.

Pages:

http://www.nytimes.com/1983/11/27/world/176-are-believed-killed-in-crash-of-747-jet-near-madrid-s-airport.html

http://www.nytimes.com/1983/11/28/world/death-toll-in-the-crash-of-747-jet-near-madrid-airport-rises-to-183.html

If I am wrong please tell me. 73.87.74.115 (talk) 13:44, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Translation attempts

After a bunch of good-faith edits, which included the translation of the Spanish article and removal of Spanish sources, our article became unreadable and unsourced. This is absolutely unacceptable. Whereas translations of other Wikipedia articles might be a good thing (and might be not a good thing), they absolutely should not harm the existing article. Removal of reliable sources is absolutely not acceptable. I reverted this to the previous state of the article. Please, let us do it in small portions, making sure that the quality of the article is not deteriorated.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:56, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

@Tigerdude9:, @Isaidnoway:--Ymblanter (talk) 07:57, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

@Ymblanter:, I have English sources and am working on making it coherent in English. Please be patient. I left a edit summary announcing my intentions. I'll be working on it, a paragraph at a time. Thanks. Isaidnoway (talk) 08:05, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

It might be a good idea in this case to create a draft, and then, if no objections have been raised, to move the draft to the article and to merge edit histories.--Ymblanter (talk) 08:07, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

I am EXTREMELY sorry, I actually thought it would work, but it didn't. I did not intend for it to end up this way. I'm not the best at source editing TBH. I took your advice and made a draft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tigerdude9/Avianca_Flight_011 Please forgive me for this incident. I did not intend for it to end up this way, and I am sorry. Tigerdude9 (talk) 11:57, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

@Tigerdude9:, I basically summarized the salient facts from the accident and the investigation, and used English sources and English citation templates. I think it makes sense to use English sources instead of Spanish sources, since this is the en:wp, and Spanish citation templates don't work on the en:wp either, as can be seen in your draft. But now that you've created a draft, if you think there is more info that is useful and should be added, it should be easier now to edit. And on another note, it wasn't a bad idea to migrate this article here from the es:wp, but it probably would have been a good idea to put it into draft space first to work on, before putting it in the main space. If you need further help, just let me know. Isaidnoway (talk) 01:35, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

@Isaidnoway: @Ymblanter:, I've made my draft public for anyone to edit, here is the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Avianca_Flight_011 I would gladly appreciate help from others. Thank you. Tigerdude9 (talk) 19:22, 8 October 2018 (UTC)