Talk:Attacks on U.S. bases in Iraq, Jordan, and Syria during the Israel–Hamas war/Archive 1

Archive 1

Contested deletion

This page should not be speedily deleted because... (your reason here) --2607:FEA8:DDF:66E0:4C1B:DE00:F2A5:A995 (talk) 04:18, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

There have now been over 5 other attacks on US bases, more details are needed. I suggest making this page about all the attacks on military bases so far rather than deletion it. Also, this is not proven to be directly related or "apart" of another confict.

Agreed, especially after the Pentagon confirmed 24 U.S. injuries. RamHez (talk) 01:35, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Definitely the wrong title, NN, and not part of specific other conflicts yet, but there may be an existing article on longer-timeframe patterns that this could be added to. – SJ + 02:36, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

(Insert confused look meme) How is "2023 Al-Asad air base attack" a non-neutral and wrong title? The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 02:39, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Changing the infobox

I think, they is need for us to change the infobox type into military conflict type because American military has responded by attacking bases in Syria, so it’s now more like a conflict rather than a one sided attack. Mindthem (talk) 19:22, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Not linked to the 2023 Gaza war

I quote: “These narrowly tailored strikes in self-defense were intended solely to protect and defend U.S. personnel in Iraq and Syria,” Mr. Austin said. “They are separate and distinct from the ongoing conflict between Israel and Hamas, and do not constitute a shift in our approach to the Israel-Hamas conflict.” New York Times. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:10, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

That’s what they are claiming but in reality it’s opposite. The attacks were done by those groups in response to Israel acts in Gaza, so I believe that they are linked. Mindthem (talk) 19:19, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

• Agree. The article should be returned to Category:2023 Israel–Hamas war

Gjs238 (talk) 23:08, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

agreed as well, this would not have happen if the israel-hamas war had not occurred. RamHez (talk) 08:19, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

List of wars involving the United States

There is a conversation in the List of wars involving the United States talk page if this is a new and unique war brought on by the 2023 Israel–Hamas war classifying America as an active belligerent to the conflict. Personally, I do not care either way, my argument is that the List page should not be where the argument occurs and it should be discussed here and the list should reflect the consensus found here. However, that does not appear to be occurring. So I was hoping that maybe others who might have an interest in the subject might wish to be aware of this conversation and might be able to bring a different perspective on this topic one way or the other. --DarkAzure (talk) 18:10, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

alleged 20 injured Iraqi militiamen

@SpinnerLaserzthe2nd Could you please provide a source for the 20 injured Iraqi militiamen. I have closely monitored the situation since the start and have not heard or seen any news of this. Thus, could you provide any source for that information?

I have since then taken it off. RamHez (talk) 13:39, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Discard this I've noticed you've changed it to not have their nation attached.

But I am still wondering if this event is connected to the Iraqi militias clashing with America forces or is this another conflict entirely. There have been many pro-Syrian government fighting with Rojava in the past so it does not seem likely that this is directly connected to the events between Iraqi militias and the U.S.. The sources you provided haven't stated any connection either. RamHez (talk) 13:41, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Do protests at the Incirlik Air Base fall within the scope of this article?

I removed the section on the Incirlik Air Base but it has since returned to the article, so I'd like to open a discussion on whether or not it warrants inclusion here. My reasoning was that despite "Middle East" appearing in the current title, the focus of this page appears to be a coordinated series of strikes on American targets by Iran-backed military organizations, and a manifestation of Turkish civilians didn't really seem to fit the pattern, despite the fact that it occurred outside a U.S. military base in the Middle East. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 07:09, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

I agree that they are not. At least not according to the sources which report about the attacks on U.S. bases. That section was WP:SYNTH. Ecrusized (talk) 18:57, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Request for Comments related to this article

There is an ongoing Request for Comments related to this article. If you wish to watch participate in the discussion, you can hear: Talk:List of wars involving the United States#Request for comment. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 17:02, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 1 November 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to 2023 attacks on U.S. bases in Iraq and Syria. – SJ + 04:04, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

---

2023 American–Middle East conflict → 2023 Al-Asad air base attack – This article only covers the air base attack and the United States's response to it, so naming it in a much broader way is unhelpful to our readers. If this does escalate into a broader conflict, then we should have articles on both the air base attack and the broader conflict (but as this has not happened yet, we should move this article in the meantime). Elli (talk | contribs) 17:26, 1 November 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 06:09, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Support per nom Parham wiki (talk) 17:42, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose as attacks in Rojava, al-Tanf, and Iraqi Kurdistan by Iranian proxies, just not as well documented by media. Plus, the US intercepted Houthi missiles over the Red Sea, something Im gonna add right now. - Joaquinazo (talk) 19:21, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose Looks as if two other locations/attacks were added to this article after RM was started, so changing the name now would be inappropriate per WP:UNDUE. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 19:40, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Comment The current article title makes no sense, so anything is better than the current state. The USS Carney intercept doesn't really belong here, instead in Taba and Nuweiba drone attacks. Given the content, propose something like Iranian proxy attacks against the U.S. during the 2023 Israel-Hamas war. Know it's a mouthful, but it's more accurate and reflective. Longhornsg (talk) 20:29, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose The name must be kept as it is or be changed to American-Middle East war because U.S and those militias are still attacking each other, so it’s more like a war. Secondly, air base attacks are not only thing in the article, they is also other pro-American groups attacking anti-American forces. Mindthem (talk) 20:33, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Comment: conflict makes it seems like a war when it seems it's just a few sparse attacks. Maybe 2023 American–Middle East strikes or something to that effect would be better. Esolo5002 (talk) 04:33, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

United States and those militias are exchanging blows, so basically it’s a war. Those are not strikes but actually an armed military conflict. Mindthem (talk) 11:33, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose The current name must be kept as the subject is a 2023 conflict between America and Middle Eastern militias. --Omnipaedista (talk) 15:16, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose: It should not be changed to a single attack when America has confirmed two dozen soldiers injured in the course of over 25 strikes. RamHez (talk) 11:54, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Comment: An editor has created this redirect page: 2023 United States–Axis of Resistance conflict. --Omnipaedista (talk) 23:07, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Comment: Regardless of this RM, this is a bizarre title and page. Since when do we label US stuff "American" in titles, as opposed to "US"? Also, "Middle East"? Really? The whole Middle East? The whole page is just a mess of WP:SYNTH that is all strung along WP:COATRACK-style off of the material about the Al-Asad air base attack. Iskandar323 (talk) 13:36, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

I agree Parham wiki (talk) 16:39, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Iskandar323, here is some examples of “American” in titles: American intervention in the Syrian civil war, American intervention in Libya (2015–2019), American-led intervention in Iraq (2014–2021), American military intervention in Niger. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 16:37, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Those make grammatical sense. The current title sounds like "American" is in a conflict with the entire "Middle East". 9³ (talk) 02:32, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

"American" is an adjective, "US" is the noun. But in any case, that's not the worst thing about this title, by a lot. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 23:11, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose/Comment this name should 100% change. The US is fighting against the whole of the middle east? unlikely. However, there have been attacks on other bases so 2023 Al-Asad air base attack wouldn't work, maybe something like 2023 attacks on U.S. bases in Iraq and Syria Scu ba (talk) 23:02, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

I would support Scu ba's alternative DFlhb (talk) 23:33, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Me too. This article is too biased because some Middle East countries like Jordan, Oman, or Bahrain are not even involved in this conflict. 14.5.152.12 (talk) 03:17, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

My guess is that creator of the article was based on the news reports describing this as "attacks on US forces in Middle East". --Omnipaedista (talk) 09:04, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

The option posed here would certainly improve on the current debacle. Iskandar323 (talk) 07:40, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

I'd also prefer this to keeping the current name. Elli (talk | contribs) 21:44, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

I agree, "2023 attacks on U.S. bases in Iraq and Syria," or "2023 attacks on U.S. bases in the Middle East," or "2023 attacks on U.S. Middle East bases," or something like that, would be a better title. There is no "2023 US-Middle East" conflict, but it's also not just about one single attack. Levivich (talk) 02:19, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

I agree with this alternative. The current title is too ambiguous, and the proposed title is impractical because it doesn't account for attacks in various other areas. Skitash (talk) 13:41, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Agreed as well. The title "American-Middle East conflict" has a jingoistic ring to it with no bearing on reality. The United States is not in conflict with the Middle East, but rather with Iranian proxies in Iraq, Syria, and - to a lesser degree - Yemen. I second renaming the article to "2023 attacks on U.S. bases in Iraq and Syria", if not something more indicative of Iranian proxy responsibility. Also, it is abundantly clear that Iran is responsible for these attacks, so there is no point in putting "alleged" next to the IRGC's name. There is abundant proof from all kinds of reliable sources - from the Institute for the Study of War to the words out of Iran's leaders own mouths - proving that Iran has at least been egging on these attacks, if not outright directing them through Esmail Ghaani in Beirut. Crazy Horse 1876 (talk), 02:29, 9 November 2023

Oppose We need a more comprehensive title. Dl.thinker (talk) 00:17, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: For further deliberations on the proposed alternative name: 2023 attacks on U.S. bases in Iraq and Syria. – robertsky (talk) 06:09, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Comment The name 2023 attacks on U.S. bases in Iraq and Syria as a title is more of an appropriate article title. The current one makes it sound like the U.S. is at war with the whole Middle East which is misleading and propagandistic sounding. -- Rauisuchian (talk) 20:18, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Support The current title is absolutely ridiculous. Anything is better than it. What media source talks about "American–Middle East conflict"? Whoever came up with the title should read Wikipedia:Common name. You don't get to decide on what is a war/conflict or what is not. Our job is to reflect the naming in the reliable sources. I would be in favor of some of the alternative titles being proposed in this discussion including "2023 Iran proxies attacks on U.S. bases." Tradedia^talk 06:48, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Comment, technically WP:COMMONNAME is actually supported with this title. Reuters (Nov 9) "US forces under fire in Middle East as America slides towards brink" & "A defective drone in Iraq may have helped keep America from being dragged deeper into a widening Middle East conflict", Al Jazeera (Oct 20) "US forces repel Middle East attacks as Israel-Hamas war threatens spillover", Fox News (Nov 10) "Iran proxies continue attacks in Middle East conflict". The only valid COMMONNAME argument one could make would be changing this to 2023 United States–Iranian conflict as technically while searching for US "Middle East" conflict news articles, I saw a ton that specifically called out Iran fighting a proxy war with the US. I doubt y'all would want that title though, so actually per WP:COMMONNAME, you just practically supported this title. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 07:08, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

That's not what COMMONNAME is; the term "2023 American–Middle East conflict" would need to be in those sources, and it's not. DFlhb (talk) 08:21, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Oh, well in that case, that entire support logic is shot since there isn’t a clear WP:COMMONNAME then, since “Iran proxies attacks on U.S. bases” isn’t listed by sources either. And since it has to be that whole phrase, someone needs to give some very clear common-name consensus for the name to change. So my point somewhat still stands as it isn’t a solid support reasoning. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 08:27, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

I assume they mean that titles have to be verifiable and not rely on original research; that point stands. Your sources don't verify the title; "slides towards brink" means it isn't at the brink; "helped keep America from being dragged deeper into a [...] Middle East conflict" means it isn't in such a conflict. Fox News is unreliable. This'll be my last reply, because I don't want a back-and-forth and the current title is clearly bad. DFlhb (talk) 08:50, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

That's not how it works, at all. None of these imply a conflict between the US and a nebulous "Middle East". They state the conflict happens in the Middle East, which is not the same as what the current title implies. A title representing what the articles actually say (which is, attacks on American bases by Iran-backed proxies) would be a much better fit for WP:COMMONNAME. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 23:14, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

• Strongly support alternative to 2023 attacks on U.S. bases in Iraq and Syria - Current title is a synth/NPOV/COMMONNAME violation which implies a wider conflict than what has taken place and leaves the scope of the article in confusion. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  05:40, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

I am in support of this measure, but making it slightly more broad. “American-Middle Eastern Conflict” is way too vague, but the attacks at the airbase aren’t the only ones. Blepii (talk) 05:51, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Support: alternative of 2023 attacks on US bases in Iraq and Syria (stated again with a bolded vote, for clarity) - but also "US" is fine; no need for "U.S." with the unnecessarily elaborated punctuation. Iskandar323 (talk) 08:04, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

^^ Yeah, I support whatever grammar is more correct. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  09:00, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support speedy move to 2023 attacks on U.S. bases in Iraq and Syria, current title is wholly original research. Ecrusized (talk) 08:54, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Support alternative move to 2023 attacks on U.S. bases in Iraq and Syria. There is no conflict against a united "Middle East", it's the US and Iran fighting their 100th proxy war in the region. Current title makes absolutely zero sense. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 23:10, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Support alternative move to 2023 attacks on U.S. bases in Iraq and Syria. There is no such thing as "2023 American–Middle East conflict" (yet). My very best wishes (talk) 23:54, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Support alternative move to 2023 attacks on U.S. bases in Iraq and Syria per all logical reasons stated above--DarkAzure (talk) 00:52, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Yemen and the Red Sea are not in Iraq and Syria

Hello all, I'd like to propose some sort of merge of the information regarding Yemen and the Houthis here to the article Houthi involvement in the 2023 Israel-Hamas war, in the interest of article scope. I don't think this information belongs in the article given the current title's mention of Iraq and Syria, but I'm open to hearing alternative solutions. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 20:15, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

@SaintPaulOfTarsus I think we can just add those article in "See Also" section, which "Houthi involvement in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war already did. 14.5.152.12 (talk) 04:37, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

The original scope of the article encompasses the entire Middle East (See: #Requested move 1 November 2023), which is why Yemen is included. But now a specific article has been created for the situation in Yemen --> United States conflict with the Houthis (2023–present).--Fontaine347 (talk) 18:25, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Propose to remove wikilink of "militias"

In the first sentence, "militias" is wikilinked to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism:

Starting on 17 October 2023, Iran-backed militias initiated a coordinated series of more than 115 attacks on U.S. military bases and assets in Syria and Iraq.

The link is inappropriate for the context since no where in the article is there reference to terrorist activities. I propose to remove the link. DMH43 (talk) 20:27, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 January 2024

The link to Mushtaq Talib al-Saidi should be Mushtaq Talib Al-Saeedi. lukini (talk | contribs) 22:36, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: Most news sources mentioning that name spell it saidi. I searched Saeedi, and the only result spelling it that way was one Wikipedia article, the rest of the results spelled it saidi. Shadow311 (talk) 16:21, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, whatever is needed to fix the redlink was my main desire. Looks like the alias and redirect was added and the link was removed, so this is done in my mind. lukini (talk | contribs) 19:13, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Reports of a possible IRGC missile attack in Erbil

There has been reports of possibly IRGC missile attack in Erbil today circulating on twitter. Has there been any official conformation of this? If so, should this it be included on this page?

Source: https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1747009494897377769 Randomuser335S (talk) 21:53, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

23 January

I've added a short paragraph about US strikes today based on reports in The Guardian, Reuters, CNN, and BBC. Feel free to expand, as always. I've also added a {{current event}} tag to the article as information about the recent airstrikes may be still developing. Thanks, 🌺 Cremastra (talk) 01:28, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

US casualties

The infobox lists one US contractor as having been “killed” when in fact, per the source, “During a false alarm at Al-Asad airbase in Iraq, a civilian contractor died from a cardiac arrest.” Could this information be added, or the death removed, to avoid the false impression that a civilian contractor was actually killed? Patriotparty1776 (talk) 20:32, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

@Patriotparty1776: where in the article? I don't see any mention of contractor, but they might just be listed as a "casualty". In that case, clarification would be in order. 🌺 Cremastra (talk) 21:03, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

In the infobox. It claims 4 “killed” and note B specifies this as “Three servicemembers and one contractor” Patriotparty1776 (talk) 05:15, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I've changed it so that it says (in the infobox) 3 killed, 1 incidental casualty, with the note afterwards explaining that the contractor died from cardiac arrest during a false alarm. This is also explained in the body of the article, so I think we've headed off any confusion. Thanks, 🌺 Cremastra (talk) 13:43, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

title

Should the title be changes to attacks in the middle east? it would provide more brevity Ayunipear (talk) 18:19, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Yes, it would, but it would be a little vague, because Middle East is a very broad term. 🌺 Cremastra (talk) 19:02, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

title2

should it be us military instead of us bases Baratiiman (talk) 19:30, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Link "Abu Baqir al Saadi" to his page

someone should link Abu Baqir or Wissam al saadi to his article: article Jabbatheblack (talk) 20:22, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

@Jabbatheblack:  Done 🌺 Cremastra (talk) 20:47, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

@Cremastra: It still shows his name as red with no page created. This is the page: Wissam Al-Saadi Jabbatheblack (talk) 21:48, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Fixed, sorry about that. 🌺 Cremastra (talk) 22:17, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Remove syrian democratic forces

They haven't really participated in these clashes. Rather one airstrike by local insurgents killed a few of their soldiers. Is this really enough to make them a combatant? Genabab (talk) 13:56, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

The Islamic Resistance in Iraq took responsibility for the strike which killed seven SDF soldiers and injured 18 others. They condemned the attack and said they have the right to respond. That shows their intent to strike the IRI and therefore are a belligerent.

Keep in mind, they also work side-by-side with the U.S. forces in the base which is constantly targeted. RamHez (talk) 07:39, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Continuation/Resuming attacks

The Iraqi group Kataib Hezbollah announced that they and other Iraqi groups would continue the attacks

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/21/iraq-rockets-syria-us-military-base Durranistan (talk) 15:34, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Yes they're, but what change has to be made , I didn't understand M Waleed (talk) 03:12, 25 April 2024 (UTC)