Talk:Argentina–Chile relations

Name

Shhould't we add something to the title to make it clear we are talking about Politics?--Mariano(t/c) 02:13, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Mariano, the name follows the Anglo-French relations article criteria. Pehaps you could fix the lead. Jor70 15:03, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, it was just an idea. nevermind. --Mariano(t/c) 16:09, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Sholdn't we move the page to "Argentina-Chile relations"? (actually the title is "Argentina_-_Chile Relations). Dentren | ^Talk 02:18, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Why are the Falklands Islands, in the map, showed green? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.22.124.60 (talk) 22:02, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

I wonder why a chilean would ask that ! --Jor70 (talk) 22:23, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Independence Day

Hola Jor70,

Te explico porque el 18 de Septiembre se celebra la independencia de Chile. Tal como tu has escrito la declaracion de Independencia se realizo mucho mas tarde, despues del periodo de reconquista española. Sin embargo esa, la de la declaracion, es la fecha de un acto administrativo que nombra posteriormente los hechos que consolidaron la independencia. La independencia es un proceso mas o menos rapido, mas o menos largo, la declaracion es un acto administrativo, te repito.

Los independencia comienza a gestarse, como siempre, en el espiritu de la gente, O'Higgins, por ejemplo fue influenciado por Miranda durante su estancia en Londres, asimismo el exito de la lucha contra las invasiones inglesas promovio de alguna manera el espiritu independentista en Buenos Aires. Luego, el 18 de Septiembre de 1810 en Santiago, la junta de gobierno en representacion de los vecinos realizo por primera vez un acto independiente, sin la tutela de la metropolis. Este acto consistio en una jura de fidelidad al Rey español Fernando VII, pero ya como ente independiente, por su propia voluntad, como un acto soberano del pueblo chileno. Chile se habia desligado de España. Por eso en Chile se celebra la independencia el 18 de Septiembre.

La declaracion de independencia es, como te digo, un acto administrativo que no influye fundamentalmente en los hechos historicos.

Por ejemplo el comienzo de la segunda guerra mundial es como tu sabes el primero de septiembre de 1939. Sin embargo la declaracion de guerra de GB a Alemania fue emitida el 3 de septiembre. Otro ejemplo, entre GB y Argentina no hubo declaracion de guerra en 1982. Sostener que la 2.GM cmenzo el 3 de septiembre o que entre A y GB no hubo guerra el 82 no sera aceptado nunca el la WP.

Como ya te dije una vez, no lo tomes en forma personal. Aprecio tus contribuciones y espero que continuemos trabajando ojala cada vez mejor y con menos fricciones. Si no tienes objeciones cambiare el texto de acuerdo a la version oficial chilena, es decir 1810, como esta demostrado en la referencia que borraste.

No tengo ningun problema en solicitar la opinion de una tercera persona neutral para derimir el asunto. Sin embargo debe ser neutral y no uno de tus amigos como la ultima vez [1] y [2]. Saludos, --Keysanger 15:17, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Communicate in English when using an article talk page please Keysanger

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Ryan4314 (talk) 09:43, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Keysanger you are jumbling things again, who cares why Chile choose the 18 september for its national party , the sentence you changed (which by the way was wrriten by a chilean user: Dentren) meant that AFTER BOTH argentina and chile gain fully independence of spain only then the relation bagan to soured, in 1810 both countries began their path to their independences but were still linked to spain until 1816 and 1818 respectively and in fact most nations do not recognized this until 1830s so could not have been any territorial disputes between them in 1810 !! which I repeat is what we are talking about in this particular paragraph and not how chile gain emancipation. And by the way Im honoured to both Fnlayson (USA) and Justin (British) to be my "friends" but that was not the reason I choose them, it was because I was looking for an impartial view and both have great experience in dealing with this kind of things, if not, there were many AR users there to choose. I agree to your intention to not have so many "frictions" but for that please be more politely and before changing something which has been there for years take the matter to talk instead of start messing concepts --Jor70 (talk) 13:08, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't know that the article has so many interested editors. Usually Jor70 understand my Spanish better than my English. The points are:

• A declaration of independence is an administrative act
• independence is a process
• in order to understand the Argentina-Chile Relations we have to explain the process because the formalities are subordinate.

For example, in the Chilean case, on 18 September 1810 the Chileans (actually only from Santiago and only VIPs as usually at that time) declared his loyalty to the Fernando VII King of Spain (hijacked by bad Napoleon). This declaration was issued voluntary as a sovereign people without any intervention of the Spanish authority, actually against the Audiencia of Santiago that represented the Spanish state in Chile. For this reason the official web site of the Chilean government says that the 18. September 1810 is the begin of the independence of Chile. (Unfortunately Jor70 deleted the given reference, but perhaps we can get it again from the "history" of the article.)

Hence the date 1818 of the administrative act is irrelevant as the British declaration of war of 3. September 1939 or the non-declaration of war between Argentina and the United Kingdom 1982. The WW2 began on 1. September 1939 and there was a war between A and UK 1982.

Should be Jor70 not convinced of my arguments, we can invite a third opinion, but a neutral one, and no one of his friends as he liked it:

• [3]
• [4]
• [5]

I think every WP-writer has to be ready to discuss his contributions (or deletes) with the WP-Community. I know, it is demanding and I self didn't do it always but I have always try it. I will respond to yours exculpation later, un abrazo --Keysanger 13:15, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I dont understand you Keysanger want to keep the Argentine date of independence for Argentina and not the Chilean one. I dont think this discussion is so important for t5he article the declarations are acts, and just like Keysanger says the focus of the article should be on processes, but citing historiographically important dates (1816 ande 1818) gives the reader general information on what years we are spaeking about, and what dates have been selected in each country as among the most important for independence in each country, thus the dates are full of meaning. A reader with some "general-culture" will naturally understand that independence did not came into efect from one day to another after a declaration. Dentren | ^Talk 21:27, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Arms race

The history section should include the Argentine-Chilean arms race (~1880-1910). Information can be found on Almirante Latorre-class battleship. Dentren | ^Talk 22:16, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

just found this [6] --Jor70 (talk) 19:42, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

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related articles need fixing

I am no expert in this field (I don't even speak Spanish, and have never been to South America!), but I I detected some crap info in the Andes section dealing with transportation and the road links between Argentina and Chile. I deleted the misleading information, but I would like to have some expert in the matter go fix that article. Please. Bobkeyes (talk) 01:18, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

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