Talk:Architecture of Madagascar/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: – VisionHolder « talk » 16:15, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

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Good text, but the structure, referencing, and images need work.

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   The lead should summarize the body and should not require citations. Make sure the content what's cited is in the body and cited there, and then you can remove the citations from the lead. It almost seems like the current lead should be converted into sections, and then a summary written to replace it. Also, "last vestiges of a great tradition" should probably be "last vestiges of a historical tradition".

"Great tradition" changed to "historical tradition". I'm working on restructuring the lead and citations now. I've created a new intro section to focus more on the Indonesian elements in Malagasy architecture, which might require a few days to write. Let me spend a little time on it and I will let you know when I think it's ready for you to have another look at it. -- Lemurbaby (talk) 08:27, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I wrote a short section on the origins of Malagasy architecture. There is much to be said on the topic of architecture in Madagascar, so I'd eventually like to create additional articles that explore many of these themes in greater detail (such as tombs in Madagascar, or symbolism in construction). I think this is ready for your review as an "overview" article. See what you think. -- Lemurbaby (talk) 18:16, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

1. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   See previous statement... Also, at the moment a couple statements are missing citations. Most of the references are fine, but citations from "madatana.com" are questionable, and the YouTube video won't work.

I fixed the references in the body (lead changes are next). Does Wikipedia have a policy forbidding links to youtube? that video is on the official UNESCO channel. If it won't work as a ref that's fine, but can it be kept as an external link? I have made some fixes to citations now, but please be sure to point out any other sentences you believe might need citations so I can address them.

1. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   I'm more familiar with the culture of the south. Are all the architectural styles of all the ethnic groups represented in this article?

Yes, my sources are exhaustive and very detailed. The only area I think should possibly be expanded for FA is the tombs section... at some point I'd like to research and write about the cosmology and symbolism in Malagasy architecture, ideally in the run-up to FA.

1. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

2. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

3. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   First caption isn't good: "Distribution of architectural types"—maybe "Three major architectural types are distributed around the island of Madagascar." Images at the end are too clustered. Consider using {{multiple image}} like I did at Ring-tailed Lemur. Once again, there are a lot of problems with images that need fixing. Unless there are copyright issues, images should be on WikiCommons. this image may violate copyright... unless you can show that screenshots from Google Earth are fine. Nearly all of the images need to have a standardized summary using {{Information}}. Lastly, the images you uploaded under the public domain were taken by someone other than you. This needs to be documented through OTRS. If you need help figuring out OTRS, I'll try to answer your questions. Basically, either the author needs to upload the file, or s/he needs to email the file to you and explicitly state the rights for that photo. Then when you upload it, you note that you have an OTRS pending and forward that person's email to the permissions team at commons so that they can verify it.

Actually I *am* the uploader and creator of those photos. At the time of uploading I didn't know how to format that information in the image description correctly, but now I do. I just now have made changes to the descriptions. That should fix this issue. I replaced the two questionable images (the Google Earth screen shot and the Besakana shot).

All images have been transferred to the Commons. -- Lemurbaby (talk) 05:53, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

1. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

This article has further to go than Rova of Antananarivo, but I'm willing to coach you through it. The text is well-written, but some polishing is needed on the rest. Again, I'll be out of town for a few days, so if you can, spend some time fixing things up and I'll take another looks when I get back.

Comments: Looking very good! Here are my latest comments:

• One citation needed under "Earliest burial practices". – VisionHolder « talk » 04:24, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm not seeing this... maybe I took care of it between the 23rd and now myself but already forgot about it. ;) -- Lemurbaby (talk) 01:53, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, you got it. – VisionHolder « talk » 02:05, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

• I've touched up a couple of captions. I now have only one concern about images. File:Malagasy architectural map.gif is a nice map, but I'm wondering where you got the map itself, aside from coloring and labeling. Was it on WikiCommons? Because if you used a copyrighted image from somewhere else, the derivation would be a copyright violation. If that's the case, you'll need to find a substitute on WikiCommons (see Category:Maps of Madagascar) and make it again. (It's also good to check the rights on the image you pick as your base map, and don't hesitate to verify with me before you get started.) Sorry... But otherwise, images and captions look great! – VisionHolder « talk » 04:24, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes I pulled the base map off the commons (File:Ma-map.png). Do I have to cite the source of my base map? It's the same base map I used for the maps in Music of Madagascar. -- Lemurbaby (talk) 01:53, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, but I've done it for you. Usually if you upload something directly to Commons a select the option for a "derivative work", it will do this for you automatically. – VisionHolder « talk » 02:05, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

• The lead is looking a lot better, but still a little short for such a long article. Any other key points that you feel should be summarized in the lead? – VisionHolder « talk » 04:24, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

You're right, this can be expanded - I will do that over the next couple of days. -- Lemurbaby (talk) 01:53, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Done -- Lemurbaby (talk) 19:04, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry... I may have pushed you too far. The lead looks impressive, but may now be too long. For an article this size, three medium-sized paragraphs should be sufficient. Sorry for not being clear. Would you like help trimming it? Otherwise, once we touch this up, there's only that one other expansion you mentioned below, and then you're done! – VisionHolder « talk » 20:56, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Done :) Lemurbaby (talk) 23:40, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

• "Since independence..." — this is the first time you've mentioned independence in the article, so you might need to slightly elaborate. For example, "Since Madagascar gained its independence in 1960..." It should also be linked to an article about the Madagascar's independence, but alas, it doesn't look like we have one. >.< – VisionHolder « talk » 04:24, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Added... with a link to a portion of History of Madagascar -- Lemurbaby (talk) 01:53, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

• Under "Modern construction", do you have any sources to mention how very few Malagasy can afford modern housing due to widespread poverty? It should probably get a mention, but if you can't find a source, I'll let this pass. I just tried to read the section with the mindset of someone who knows very little about Madagascar, and I imagined these modern buildings being in high demand, with lots of people shelling out money for this new trend. In reality, I realize that only the upper-class can afford this, and particularly people in the northern part of the island (and less so in the southern half). – VisionHolder « talk » 04:24, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes I can expand on this section tomorrow with a solid new academic article I just located. -- Lemurbaby (talk) 01:53, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Done -- Lemurbaby (talk) 20:05, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Beautiful! The section is perfect! – VisionHolder « talk » 20:36, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

• Lastly, once everything else is taken care of, I will put this review up for a second opinion because of the references. We can revisit the YouTube reference as well as the "madatana.com" reference then. They may be fine, but I'm not 100% sure. – VisionHolder « talk » 04:24, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

I believe that Youtube videos are generally considered unreliable, especially for Good Article and Featured Articles. As for reference 22 it appears to be reliable, but it does not identify the author so the reliability of the source is questionable. Alpha Quadrant ^talk 02:54, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, Alpha Quadrant. We discussed this on IRC, and the conclusion was that although the reference can be kept, you will probably want to find a second (supporting) reference when you're ready to take this article to FAC. – VisionHolder « talk » 03:10, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Only two minor issues introduced with the new edits: "Manambondro region" is not linked for described in the article. If no link is available, I would suggest saying where it's located, i.e. "in the southeast of the island." (Is that right?) Also, the last two sentences of the lead don't appear to flow with the paragraph they are in. Most of the paragraph talks about tombs, and then it switches back to modern construction and doesn't appear to have anything to do with tombs. It may just need a slight re-organization. – VisionHolder « talk » 20:36, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Good catch - I clarified where this ethnic group is located, and I've provided the link. Lemurbaby (talk) 23:40, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

I am happy to announce that this article is now a GA and well on its way towards FA. Good job! – VisionHolder « talk » 08:10, 2 February 2011 (UTC)