Talk:Architecture of India/Archive 1

older comments

Shouldn't the point that many of the "muslim buildings" actually are transformed buildings from the pre-moghul era be added? Many of the muslim buildings in India are different from muslim architecture elsewhere in the world. this because many of them are transformed temples etc.

What you say is incorrect. Many of the architectural features are a fusion of indigenous design and persian influence. --Kaveri 18:35, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Everyday architecture

While not as impressive, what about including some information on more everyday buildings. How are traditional houses built, etc. - Taxman ^Talk 16:01, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Present day Indian Architecture

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Nationwide representation of pics

As of July 26, 2008, this was the scenario:

Northern India: 5

Western India: 3

Southern India: 5

Eastern India: 2

There aren't any images on North-Eastern India since there isn't any info on their architecture in this article. Any future changes should keep nationwide representation in mind. --Emperor Genius (talk) 01:56, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

An image of the Rang Ghar is in the article now. JSR (talk) 02:09, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

You have raised valid concerns. North-Eastern architecture should be in the article in a couple of days. JSR (talk) 09:08, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Neolithic mehrgarh.jpg

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Recent changes

Firstly, User:JSR massively rewrote the article without discussing and then preaches others to discuss before making edits?! Secondly, if for certain sections references aren't provided, try search for them rather than removing the entire text. Thirdly, regarding the images - Angkor Wat is the only Hindu image which was put on top. Umaid Bhawan is a Rajput architecture and has little to do with Hindu designs. Chronology was corrected instead. References to Sikh architecture were first removed and then someone cribs about removing image on Golden temple? And regarding Presidential building, firstly its the Secretariat. Secondly, the building was constructed in British era and has nothing to do with modern Indian architecture post-1947. Thirdly, there is no need to have 3 images on colonial architecture. Regarding the newly added text, it is from the previous version. References will be added soon. If you dispute certain sentences, add instead of blatantly removing text. Highly unproductive behavior. --Dilli Billi (talk) 08:56, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

• You must insert information with sources. You can't add information and say your sources will come soon. If they will then wait soon and insert it when they come. How did you manage to write 'Percy Brown in Kamath (2001), p134' and 'Cousens in Kamath 2001, p117' (copy/paste from article) without your sources having come escapes me.
• You put two Hindu buildings on top while removing a Sikh shrine. You also replaced the Secretariat by I-flex (how is i-flex an example of Indian architecture?). Is that not objectionable?

Also, using words like 'A feature of Hoysala temple architecture is its attention to exquisite detail and skilled craftmanship' (that line did have a source but I hardly think such fan language belongs on Wikipedia). Also writing 'Percy Brown in Kamath (2001), p134' and 'Cousens in Kamath 2001, p117' (copy/paste from article) is inadequate sourcing. Where is the publisher, ISBN, date, author name (Kamath who?) etc.

You wrote 'Firstly, User:JSR massively rewrote the article without discussing and then preaches others to discuss before making edits?' without taking into account the sources that went into the article and still support every line. I also notified as many people as I could but my conduct is not under the scanner here. I simply asked you to produce a source and explain rationale. I hope any further personal statements will not interfere with content disputes. JSR (talk) 09:23, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Avoid edit summaries like:"lol.. the image is the Secretariat and not of some Presidential Palace. Shows your knowledge in this field." One slip of tongue is what you judge my 'expertise in this field' by?

I see that you are adding sources but please make sure that you mention author, date, ISBN, publication etc. Try not to cite from travel guides and maybe replace Google Books link with a written citation.

Listen, when one puts forward a concern the best way is to avoid a confrontation and address his issues to the maximum limit permissible. Avoiding conflict and personal attacks is important. Just address concerns and the dispute is over. JSR (talk) 09:34, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Apologies for my earlier argumentative tone. I've expanded the caption of the image on i-Flex but if you are still not satisfied with its inclusion, feel free to remove. But it would be more appropriate to have images on buildings/structures built after 1947 for that section. If you feel that there are more images Hindu architectural structures, then how about this image on Jain temples? Also, I would suggest some images from Bengal for more balanced geographic representation. Cheers --Dilli Billi (talk) 09:39, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

And regarding sources, I can provide you the ISBN and author and additional information but I'm not good with coding. So, if you can do that, it would be great! I also noticed that for the lead-in paras, only one source is mentioned. I would suggest inclusion of material from multiple sources for more balanced viewpoint. --Dilli Billi (talk) 09:43, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

First of all, apologies for my slow replies (working). My next reply may take until tomorrow. I will try and add as much citation information to the sources as I can. We can include Bangal from the North East and aother good example would be the Rang Ghar from Assam (NE, Ahom and sports). I tried to put forward a balanced addition of faiths, periods, and cultures in the earlier representation and we can work something out now as well.

The introduction can do with another source. I will look into the Encyclopedia Britannica for further details. Your editing here also reminds me of another promise that I made a while ago but forgot.

Regards, JSR (talk) 10:07, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

This is the entire Vijayanagara Architecture section on 08:28, 24 September 2008 as edited by user: Dilli Billi:

The Vijayanagara Architecture of the period (1336 - 1565CE) was a notable building idiom evolved by the imperial Vijayanagar Empire that ruled most of South India from their regal capital at Vijayanagara on the banks of the Tungabhadra River in Karnataka, India at its peak. Vijayanagara architecture can be broadly classified into religious, courtly and civic architecture, as can the associated sculptures and paintings. The Vijayanagara style is a combination of the Chalukya, Hoysala, Pandya and Chola styles which evolved earlier in the centuries when these empires ruled and is characterised by a return to the simplistic and serene art of the past.

While I applaud your efforts for the other section you put in—the Hoysala Architecture section—I have to say that regarding Vijayanagara Architecture, more can be done.

Citation 1 and 3 should be replaced. One is a travel guide and the other is a book called Hindu Culture During and After Muslim Rule, which appears politically charged and is not widely cited. These can be replaced with other sources.

Since Kamath is cited in the article may I have the ISBN for it to put in the 'References' section? We already have enough details but more is always good.

Regards, JSR (talk) 08:42, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I think that the Kāmat citation is Kāmat, Sūryanātha. A Concise History of Karnataka: From Pre-historic Times to the Present. Could you add the publisher, ISBN, and publication date? JSR (talk) 10:03, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I also noticed that while the article displays more Hindu temples than ever the Taj Mahal seems to have been deleted for some reason. May I know why that has been done? JSR (talk) 18:10, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I've changed sources and edited text accordingly. Regarding images, it is not about Hindu temples or Muslim temples, I repositioned the images according to the sections they belong to. Unfortunately, the section on Mughal architecture is too short and can accommodate two images at most. One possibility is replacing the image on Charminar with Taj Mahal. Or if you are too adamant, you can remove the image on Angkor Wat and replace it with one on Taj. I also suggest elaborating Sikh architecture and how it borrows elements from Hindu and Islamic styles. Cheers --Dilli Billi (talk) 01:07, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

More recent changes

Text removed on March 22

Pallavas

The Rathas in Mahabalipuram

The Pallavas ruled from AD (600-900) and their greatest constructed accomplishments are the single rock temples in Mahabalipuram and their capital Kanchipuram, now located in Tamilnadu.

Pallavas were pioneers of south Indian architecture. The earliest examples of temples in the Dravidian style belong to the Pallava period. The earliest examples of Pallava constructions are rock-cut temples dating from 610 - 690 CE and structural temples between 690 - 900 CE. The greatest accomplishments of the Pallava architecture are the rock-cut temples at Mahabalipuram. There are excavated pillared halls and monolithic shrines known as rathas in Mahabalipuram. Early temples were mostly dedicated to Shiva. The Kailasanatha temple also called Rajasimha Pallaveswaram in Kanchipuram built by Narasimhavarman II also known as Rajasimha is a fine example of the Pallava style temple. Mention must be made here of the Shore Temple constructed by Narasimhavarman II near Mahabalipuram which is a UNESCO World Heritage Site

Contrary to popular impression about the succeeding empire of the Cholas pioneering in building large temple complexes, it was the Pallavas who actually pioneered not only in making large temples after starting construction of rock cut temples without using mortar, bricks etc.(**) The shining examples of such temples are the Thiruppadagam and Thiruooragam temples that have 28 and 35 feet high images of Lord Vishnu in his manifestation as Pandavadhoothar and Trivikraman forms of himself. In comparison the Siva Lingams in the Royal Temples of the Cholas at Thanjavur and Gangaikonda Cholapurams are 17 and 18 feet high. Considering that the Kanchi Kailasanatha Temple built by Rajasimha Pallava was the inspiration for Raja Raja Chola's Brihadeeswara at Thanjavur, it can be safely concluded that the Pallavas were among the first emperors in India to build both large temple complexes and very large deities and idols(**) Many Siva and Vishnu temples at Kanchi built by the great Pallava emperors and indeed their incomparable Rathas and the Arjuna's penance Bas Relief (also called descent of the Ganga) are proposed UNESCO World Heritage Sites. The continuous Chola, Pallava and Pandiyan belt temples (along with those of the Adigaimans near Karur and Namakkal), as well as the Sethupathy temple group between Pudukottai and Rameswaram uniformly represent the pinnacle of the South Indian Style of Architecture that surpasses any other form of architecture prevalent between the Deccan Plateau and Kanniyakumari(**). Needless to add that in the Telugu country the style was more or less uniformly conforming to the South Indian or Dravidian idiom of architecture.(**)

Cholas

Detail of the main vimanam (tower) of the Thanjavur Temple

The Chola kings ruled from AD (848-1280) and included Rajaraja Chola I and his son Rajendra Chola who built temples such as the Brihadeshvara Temple of Thanjavur and Brihadeshvara Temple of Gangaikonda Cholapuram, the Airavateshwara Temple or Darasuram and the Kampahareswar Temple at Tribhuvanam, the last two temples being located near Kumbakonam. The first three among the above four temples are titled Great Living Chola Temples among the UNESCO World Heritage Sites.

The Cholas were prolific temple builders right from the times of the first king Vijayalaya Chola after whom the eclectic chain of Vijayalaya Chozhisvaram temple near Narttamalai exists. These are the earliest specimen of Dravidian temples under the Cholas. His son Aditya I built several temples around the Kanchi and Kumbakonam regions.

Temple building received great impetus from the conquests and the genius of Aditya I Parantaka I, Sundara Chola, Rajaraja Chola and his son Rajendra Chola I. The maturity and grandeur to which the Chola architecture had evolved found expression in the two temples of Tanjavur and Gangaikondacholapuram. In a small portion of the Kaveri belt between Tiruchy-Tanjore-Kumbakonam, at the height of their power, the Cholas have left over 2300 temples, with the Tiruchy-Thanjvaur belt itself boasting of more than 1500 temples. The magnificent Siva temple of Thanjavur built by Raja Raja I in 1009 as well as the Siva Temple of Gangaikonda Cholapuram, completed around 1030, are both fitting memorials to the material and military achievements of the time of the two Chola emperors. The largest and tallest of all Indian temples of its time, the Tanjore Brihadisvara is at the apex of South Indian architecture.

The celebrated Saiva temple at Thanjavur, appropriately called Brihadisvara and Daksinameru, is the grandest creation of the Chola emperor Rajaraja (AD 985-1012). It was inaugurated by the king himself in his 19th regnal year (AD 1009-10) and named it after himself as Rajesvara Peruvudaiyar. Architecturally, it is the most ambitious structural temple built of granite. It has been regarded as a ‘landmark in the evolution of building art in south India’ and its vimana as a ‘touchstone of Indian architecture as a whole’. The temple is within a spacious inner prakara of 240.9 m long (east-west) and 122 m broad (north-south), with a gopura at the east and three other ordinary torana entrances one at each lateral sides and the third at rear. The prakara is surrounded by a double-storeyed malika with parivaralayas. The temple with its massive proportions and simplicity of design provided inspiration for future designs in constructions not only in south India but also in south-east Asia. In fact, two succeeding Chola kings Raja Raja II and Kulothunga III built the Airavateswarar Siva Temple at Darasuram and the Kampahareswarar Siva Temple at Tribhuvanam respectively, these were quite similar in execution to the Tanjore and Gangaikondacholapuram Siva Temples, and are smaller in size, with both temples being on the outskirts of Kumbakonam around AD 1160 and AD 1200. All the four temples were built over a period of nearly 200 years reflecting the stability and prosperity of Chola rule and their glory.

Contrary to popular impression, the Chola emperors patronized and promoted construction of a large number of temples that were spread over most parts of the Chola empire. These include 40 of the 106 Vaishnava Divya Desams out of which 77 are found spread most of South India and others in Andhra and North India(**). In fact, the Sri Ranganatha Swami Temple in Srirangam, which is the biggest temple in India (**) and the Chidambaram Natarajar Temple (though originally built by the Pallavas but possibly seized from the Cholas of the pre-christian era when they ruled from Kanchi) (**) were two of the most important temples patronized and expanded by the Cholas and from the times of the second Chola King Aditya I, these two temples have been hailed in inscriptions as the tutelary deities of the Chola Kings (**). Of course, the [Brihadeshwara Temples]] at Thanjavur and Gangaikonda Cholapuram were royal temples that were the royal temples of the Cholas to commemorate their innumerable conquests and subjugation of their rivals from other parts of South India, Deccan and the Mahanadi-Gangetic belts(**).

The temple of Gangaikondacholapuram, the creation of Rajendra Chola, was intended to exceed its predecessor in every way. Completed around 1030, only two decades after the temple at Thanjavur and in much the same style, the greater elaboration in its appearance attests the more affluent state of the Chola Empire under Rajendra.. This temple has a larger Siva linga than the one at Thanjavur but the Vimana of this temple is smaller in height than the Thanjvaur vimana.

The Chola period is also remarkable for its sculptures and bronzes all over the world. Among the existing specimens in museums around the world and in the temples of South India may be seen many fine figures of Siva in various forms, such as Vishnu and his consort Lakshmi, and the Siva saints. Though conforming generally to the iconographic conventions established by long tradition, the sculptors worked with great freedom in the 11^th and the 12^th centuries to achieve a classic grace and grandeur. The best example of this can be seen in the form of Nataraja the Divine Dancer.

There were a total of 3 citations for the large amount of text given above. One of the 3 was an unsourced detail while the other lacked anything except the author and the date. I have removed the text due to lack of inline citations and poor quality of unsourced content. JSR 0562 19:14, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

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true arches and POVs

The true arches are clearly seen in kafir kot temples, a user user:Johnbod is trying to use archaic opinion of Alex cunningham to make his point that arches disapeared from indian architecture later pre islamic period, but i have sited arch vault system from bihar/ Doe baranark temples from eighth century and kafir kot and amb temples from nineth century as contradictory evidence, if the user has any issue with those evidences, we can discuss that, personally i dont see one being in denial since hindu temples like kafir kot images clearly show true arch constructions, but adding one's POV using excuse of an archaic view that arches were only used in buddhist architecture just goes against the references and info mentioned about kausambi palace etc which has got noting to do with buddhism, the use of arches in buddhist architecture is the user's POV and nothing to do with facts. Both Kafirkot and deo Baranark temples are hindu temples. Hammy0007 (talk) 15:27, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Nonetheless, the claimed examples of pre-Islamic true arches are few and scattered, and the vast majority of the huge number of medieval Hindu temples we have remains from don't use them. We need to be careful of WP:UNDUE. Johnbod (talk) 16:29, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

okay, you can expand on vast majority of hindu temples didn't use them, but how does it justify making sweeping conclusions about muslims and arches being limited to buddhists? i have already expanded more on this topic, and brought in kausambi palace example, i have a couple of more citations to make on late hindu arches etc, i think its better that if we only expand on this topic with evidences and archaeology. Hammy0007 (talk) 02:22, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

I don't know where "sweeping conclusions about muslims and arches being limited to buddhists" or similar is in the text. Islamic mosques and tombs used arches heavily from the start, so it's appropriate to say that. Johnbod (talk) 12:19, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion

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Participate in the deletion discussions at the nomination pages linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:37, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

massive content removal of reliable content

content which was backed up by reliable academic sources has been massively removed citing IP disruption i request senior users in restoring that content. Zombie gunner (talk) 14:12, 13 September 2019 (UTC)