Talk:Antonio Barberini

Adding sexual orientation category to this biography may be a WP:CAT/R#Sexuality violation

Resolved - not about this article specifically.

WP:CAT/R#Sexuality For a dead person, there must be a verified consensus of reliable published sources that the description is appropriate. For example, while some sources have claimed that William Shakespeare was gay or bisexual, there is not a sufficient consensus among scholars to support categorizing him as such. Similarly, a living person who is caught in a gay prostitution scandal, but continues to assert their heterosexuality, can not be categorized as gay. Categories that make allegations about sexuality – such as "closeted homosexuals" or "people suspected to be gay" – are not acceptable under any circumstances. If such a category is created, it should be immediately depopulated and deleted. Note that as similar categories of this type have actually been attempted in the past, they may be speedily deleted (as a G4) and do not require another debate at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion. User: Pgarret (talk) 06:36, 12 November 2012 (UTC). We need reliable sources for category claims. It may well be that such sources are indeed available and you can list them in the article - but if not, then who is saying that these people fit the bill? Just deciding that you think they fit the description is Original Research - and that's not allowed here. I need to see a few reliable little blue number in each categorization that links to a reference document that can be examined to confirm Basic Academic rigour Most people that are listed in the misleading LGBT categorization can also be connected with the following: -Heteroflexibility -is a form of a sexual orientation or situational sexual behavior characterized by minimal homosexual activity despite a primarily heterosexual sexual :orientation that is considered to distinguish it from bisexuality. -Pansexual- A person who is fluid in sexual orientation and/or gender or sex identity. -Polyamory- is the practice of having multiple open, honest love relationships. -Affectional orientation - To holders of this view, one's orientation is defined by whom one is predisposed to fall in love with, whether or not one desires that person sexually -MSM- are male persons who engage in sexual activity with members of the same sex, regardless of how they identify themselves; many men choose not to (or cannot for other reasons) accept sexual identities of homosexual or bisexual. -Situational sexual behaviour is sexual behavior of a kind that is different from that which the person normally exhibits, due to a social environment that in :some way permits, encourages, or compels those acts. Many people change their sexual behavior depending on the situation or at different points in their life. For example, men and women in a university may engage in bisexual activities, but only in that environment. Experimentation of this sort is more common among adolescents (or just after), both male and female. Some colloquialisms for this trend include "heteroflexible", "BUG" (Bisexual Until Graduation), or "LUG" (Lesbian Until Graduation). Sexual orientation A report from the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health states, "For some people, sexual orientation is continuous and fixed throughout their lives. For others, sexual orientation may be fluid and change over time". "There . . . [was, as of 1995,] essentially no research on the longitudinal stability of sexual orientation over the adult life span. . . . [I]t [was] . . . still an unanswered question whether . . . [the] measure [of "the complex components of sexual orientation as differentiated from other aspects of sexual identity at one point in time"] will predict future behavior or orientation. Certainly, it [was] . . . not a good predictor of past behavior and self-identity, given the developmental process common to most gay men and lesbians (i.e., denial of homosexual interests and heterosexual experimentation prior to the coming-out process)." Kinsey scale Heterosexual-Homosexual Rating Scale, attempts to describe a person's sexual history or episodes of his or her sexual activity at a given time. Ituses a scale from 0, meaning exclusively heterosexual, to 6, meaning exclusively homosexual. References User: Pgarret (talk) 09:03, 10 November 2012 (UTC). You're on this crusade again? Seriously? You need to do more than just post a disconnected, non-specific editorial on sexuality on a talk page before deleting categories, especially when tagging them as "minor" edits. In this particular case, his sexuality has been the subject of a number of sources. It is clear you don't like people being categorised as "gay" or LGBT for whatever personal reason. You were previously encouraged to address these concerns on talk pages. The above (which says nothing about this article and is just a cut-paste rant) is not close to enough. Please stop. Stalwart111 23:22, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Peer review commentary

Please feel free to add any further peer review commentary here:

"Scandalous" or "alleged"

Hi all, I've left messages on various pages suggesting people comment here. There seems to be some contention about whether the word "scandalous" or "alleged" should be used in relation to Barberini's various homosexual relationships. Rietbergen's book (the source for that line - p. 163) uses both "scandalous" (to describe such liaisons generally) and "allegedly" (with regard to Barberini's liaisons specifically). Given I was already quoting the "talk of the town" part, I thought "allegedly homosexual" (which would also be a direct quote from the source) would be too close to block-quoting. So I picked the word "scandalous" from the line prior. I really didn't give the paraphrasing a lot of thought and wasn't concerned about it being changed, though I did suggest a more generally paraphrased line would be better. Having thought about it, my concern with "allegedly" is that it actually produces two direct quotes in a very short line of text. While I certainly don't mind my paraphrasing being changed, I would rather we use a paraphrasing that isn't a direct-quote-by-accident. Any thoughts on a suggested wording? Stalwart111 10:05, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

The only reason for change was the impression of certainity about the character of Barberini's relationships, which actually does not appear from Rietbergen's book. Clearly, Rietbergen makes no judgment on this matter CarlosPn (talk) 10:17, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, your edit-summary was kind of what I meant - it's exactly what appears in the source. Obviously accurate but we shouldn't be quoting unless we're quoting, if that makes sense. Can you suggest a third word that everyone might be happy with? (Also, might be best not get into revert-revert until we've had a chat about it, yeah?) Stalwart111 10:32, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Hmmm... what do you think about it: According to one historian, his presumbly homosexual relationships were "The talk of the town"? CarlosPn (talk) 10:43, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

I think "presumably" probably changes the meaning. We could think about both - according to some historians, the scandal of his alleged homosexual relationships was the "talk of the town". Better? Pluralised because Rietbergen summarises other accounts. Stalwart111 11:08, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I'm happy with this solution. Thanks. Contaldo80 (talk) 09:27, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Sorted in LGBT cats

• Category:LGBT Roman Catholic clergy
• Category:LGBT Roman Catholic bishops
• Category:LGBT Roman Catholic cardinals

• Advocate.con: 21 Gay Popes, Cardinals, and Assorted Catholic Leaders, By Jacob Ogle

Barberini was a LGBT Roman Catholic cardinal. That should be sorted in cats. --188.96.230.248 (talk) 20:44, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Agreed. The user blocking this change has violated the 3RR rule. natemup (talk) 21:26, 6 July 2021 (UTC)