Talk:Andrew Planche
Latest comment: 12 years ago by Victuallers in topic Moving to Andrew Planche!?
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Planchè? Planché! edit
If of French origin, the final "è" is quite surprising. http://www.kosmix.com/topic/royal_crown_derby gives "Planché". Fanfwah (talk) 22:33, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
- My good man, I think that William Bemrose (the author of "Bow, Chelsea and Derby Porcelain") don't agree with you. It was a mistake, a typo or something else? I dunno... - Al Lemos (talk) 00:59, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
- But on this specific point, Bemrose is quite alone if you look around. As far as I can see, from James Robinson Planché (1872) to John Twitchett (1980), everybody else writes "Planché". I think Twitchett is authoritative on Derby porcelain, and Planché should not have been too bad about spelling his own surname! Fanfwah (talk) 22:03, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
- Look around for what, fellow? A Google Search returning "planche couleur", "planche à voile", "Valerie Planche"? Don't make me laugh ;) Oh, and the nephew wrote his uncle's name as "Andrew Planché"; very clever. After all, he was Andrew or André? You must decide. Show me the birth certificate of André Planchè and I'll be convinced. - Al Lemos (talk) 23:12, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
- Better look at this search on Google Books and please take time to look at the extracts (not just at the list that shows "Planche"). Bunches of Planché and not even a single Planchè. Same thing everywhere, for example on the label behind the figurine, on the photo that is used for the article. I understand how disappointing it may be not to have discovered such an extraordinary thing as a French surname with a final è, but it is now clear that keeping it that way would just mean perpetuating and expanding a typo. Fanfwah (talk) 00:27, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
- Fellow, don't waste my time. I have a lot of things to do (and more importants, of course). Where's Planchès birth certificate? I didn't care a fig if the English registrar wrote wrong the surname of the man. As William Shatner would say: get a life! - Al Lemos (talk) 01:11, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry, I don't want to waste your precious time for such trivialities anymore, I'll take care of renaming etc. by myself. Fanfwah (talk) 01:46, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
- I've just spent a very pleasant day with Arnau Duran from the Catalan Wikipedia - when I get a call regarding the direction of the accent on the e in Planche. Meanwhile this weekend I have written William Bemrose. Some coincidence. Bemrose was well travelled but was known for his artistic and not his linguistic skills. I have looked this up in the multi-lingual Michelin Green guide and they say Planche with an e acute. Why can we not say (actually William Bemrose recorded this as a grave which may have been correct, but other sources (Michelin Green guide) record with name as Planche with e acute. Victuallers (talk) 21:45, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
- I've tried something like that for the French article (without quoting the Michelin: it does not sound really necessary to me, since and as far as all known sources except Bemrose give "Planche" or "Planché"). Maybe somebody else would care enough to waste some more time on the English version. Anyway, don't you find a bit silly to keep as title a version that is attested in one single, more than 100-year old source?
- BTW, I've found an extra source from 2006 that allowed me to improve the French article a bit. The source is in French, but I guess its author is English ("Dr Tessa Murdoch, FSA, conservateur adjoint au département des sculptures, de la céramique et du verre au Victoria and Albert Museum, Londres") so there is very probably an English version somewhere, if somebody is interested in spending some time on it. Fanfwah (talk) 08:18, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
- I've just spent a very pleasant day with Arnau Duran from the Catalan Wikipedia - when I get a call regarding the direction of the accent on the e in Planche. Meanwhile this weekend I have written William Bemrose. Some coincidence. Bemrose was well travelled but was known for his artistic and not his linguistic skills. I have looked this up in the multi-lingual Michelin Green guide and they say Planche with an e acute. Why can we not say (actually William Bemrose recorded this as a grave which may have been correct, but other sources (Michelin Green guide) record with name as Planche with e acute. Victuallers (talk) 21:45, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry, I don't want to waste your precious time for such trivialities anymore, I'll take care of renaming etc. by myself. Fanfwah (talk) 01:46, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
- Fellow, don't waste my time. I have a lot of things to do (and more importants, of course). Where's Planchès birth certificate? I didn't care a fig if the English registrar wrote wrong the surname of the man. As William Shatner would say: get a life! - Al Lemos (talk) 01:11, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
- Better look at this search on Google Books and please take time to look at the extracts (not just at the list that shows "Planche"). Bunches of Planché and not even a single Planchè. Same thing everywhere, for example on the label behind the figurine, on the photo that is used for the article. I understand how disappointing it may be not to have discovered such an extraordinary thing as a French surname with a final è, but it is now clear that keeping it that way would just mean perpetuating and expanding a typo. Fanfwah (talk) 00:27, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
- Look around for what, fellow? A Google Search returning "planche couleur", "planche à voile", "Valerie Planche"? Don't make me laugh ;) Oh, and the nephew wrote his uncle's name as "Andrew Planché"; very clever. After all, he was Andrew or André? You must decide. Show me the birth certificate of André Planchè and I'll be convinced. - Al Lemos (talk) 23:12, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
- But on this specific point, Bemrose is quite alone if you look around. As far as I can see, from James Robinson Planché (1872) to John Twitchett (1980), everybody else writes "Planché". I think Twitchett is authoritative on Derby porcelain, and Planché should not have been too bad about spelling his own surname! Fanfwah (talk) 22:03, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
Moving to Andrew Planche!? edit
It can be considered an acceptable "English version" (at least it would have been agreed by André himself, since this is the name he chose). And it would allow us to get rid off this non-sensical final e grave without profaning Bemrose's memory with an e acute. Pros? Cons? Fanfwah (talk) 00:04, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Well done all, its nice to see concensus and even though he may have cosen to be called Andrew I feel sure he would be pleased to see how mich of his biography was written in French... before it was translated into other languages. Victuallers (talk) 13:51, 26 August 2011 (UTC)