Talk:American Guard

Bias edits

An individual named "Neutrality" is making clearly bias based edits to insinuate the group is white supremacist. This despite well known members like Hussein Hill, a black gay man, who is the groups president in North Carolina.

The original formation came from the SOO attracting too many white power types. While the group has mambers who used to be involved in some forms of white nationalism, all have openly renounced racism, and even expelled Augustus Invictus from the group for associating with white nationalists, which even biased groups like the SPLC note.

Neutrality needs to be removed from moderator status for clearly making false edits for personal reasons. Ryantheviking (talk) 19:09, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

1st Vandalism Report filed. Ryantheviking (talk) 19:39, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

Another vandalism incident that removed the groups platform citation and called them white supremacists Ryantheviking (talk) 20:46, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

white supremacist 2nd look and RfC

I reluctantly agree with Ryan that "white supremacist" is not sufficiently supported in reliable sources that are neutral to be included in the article, let alone the lead. Quite honestly, those sources that use the term to describe the group have axes to grind. I tried to source it, and found many sources skirting the issue-- the founder is/was, for instance, but none saying the group is. Would like to propose removal.--Dlohcierekim (talk) 13:24, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Well, I'm wondering too whether this group is notable at all, having put together a list of search term exemptions that's complicated enough to be eligible for copyright. When you dig right down to the bone, it looks like most/all of the coverage traces back to the SPLC or ADL. But looking at what we do have:

• Local ABC affiliate - The most generous thing they're willing to say is calling them "ostensibly ethnically-inclusive" but most of the piece is about the group being part of "a conscious effort of white supremacists to tone down their rhetoric to edge closer to the alt-right," but half the piece goes back to Carla Hill of the ADL.
• Patch - (a source I do not consider reliable) manages to squeeze in a passing mention as a "general hate group" but again, going back to the opinion of the SPLC.
• The American Conservative - Who tips their hat to us with a lengthy quote, but summarizes simply "If you went down to that [Unite The Right] protest this weekend and marched alongside neo-Nazis and Ku Klux Klansmen, you deserve to be condemned in the strongest possible terms." Special mention here for criticism from an openly conservative source, so it's not just left leaning groups who are doing so.
• SPLC themselves - call them a conspiracy propagating extremist group and hate group because of their "association with violent skinheads"
• Then of course the ADL themselves which calls them not just white supremacists, but "Hardcore White Supremacists" spreading a "deliberately innocuous self-description", but which has "a background with connections to anti-immigrant extremism, hatred, and violence"
• There's this source: Under Cover, by John Roy Carlson, page 418. (1943) (obviously copyright violating full text version available through online searches) which has "Olov E. Tietzow was a Swedish-born "patriot" whose passion was to promote Americanism through the credo: "Unite Under the Swastika— Symbol of Loyalty to American Ideals." He was fuehrer of The American Guard, "The White Man's Party," and a tireless pamphleteer who had flooded the country for many years with Nazi tracts" Never mind, obviously this 1943 book can't be about a 2016 organization. I assumed it was somehow a predecessor version, but I'm not sure that it is.
• Local coverage - Categorizes them as "general hate" I suppose in case anyone really wants to get into the nuances of specialized hate vs...a refined eclectic taste in hate...perhaps they're connoisseurs of the finer hates.

So, all in all, whether we call them white supremacists, a hate group, an extremist group...six of one, half dozen of another at some level. Moreover, we have sources explicitly calling out their own re-branding as deliberate obfuscation, of particular importance to this content dispute. GMG^talk 14:21, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

notability-- it's not just about white supremacy anymore

I would like to add a comment here to state that I also question this article subject's notability. ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 14:29, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Added header. In the old days, Votes for Deletion took place on the article talk pages.--Dlohcierekim (talk) 14:31, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Well I think an AfD would have more than a snowball's chance. But would it be appropriate and more expedient to redirect/merge with Soldiers of Odin? GMG^talk 14:39, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

I think they've split of and grown in their own direction, like one of those invasive exotics in my back yard. Now separate enough and entity to need their own deletion-- that did not come out right, but no on redirect/merger.--Dlohcierekim (talk) 14:44, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Alternatively, List of organizations designated by the Southern Poverty Law Center as hate groups, where they are already listed. GMG^talk 14:49, 13 April 2018 (UTC)