Talk:All Saints' College, Perth

New logo

The History section refers to the new logo, but the Infobox image is still the old logo. Currently the new logo isn't even on the college's website yet - although it is visible on the Portal (which is only accessible to college staff, pupils and parents). I'll update the image at some stage, but it would probably be courteous to wait until it is publicly visible, eg on the college website. (Waiting until it is publicly visible also makes it verifiable.) Mitch Ames (talk) 14:31, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

According to the College, the logo will be officially launched at the Presentation Ceremony (in December), and the web page updated ready for start of next year. I've update the Wikipedia page text accordingly, and will update the logo when the College makes the logo publicly visible on their web site. Mitch Ames (talk) 04:00, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

New logo appears on publications from the College (that are available, on request, to the general public), eg 2010 Fees and Charges Information and Business Conditions and Columba 2009 yearbook. But it's still not on the website. Mitch Ames (talk) 23:41, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

I've updated the logo on Wikipedia, because it is now being used on their publications, eg 2010 Fees and Charges Information and Business Conditions, College calendar etc. It's not on their web pages yet, but can be seen on the publicly available calendar here. Mitch Ames (talk) 02:26, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

The new logo is now on the college's public website. Mitch Ames (talk) 01:43, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Yearbooks online

All Saints' College has digitised all of its yearbooks and made them available on their website. (If the direct link fails, eg if they change the internal MenuID, go to the College's home page, then look under College Community, Archive, Columba Year Books.) This will probably make a useful resource for anyone who wants to add references, verify or expand some of the information in the article. However, be aware that the files are quite large - from about 50 to 200 MB each - so may take a significant time to download. Mitch Ames (talk) 07:43, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Magazines (The Dove) are now also available on line, so I've added that to External links also. Mitch Ames (talk) 03:52, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

School Life

As per the {{multiple issues}} tag, the School Life section has several problems with it. As per my previous edit I believe it should simply be deleted, but as requested by the author's restoration, let's discuss the matter.

The restoration comment says "Added changes which are in nature cannot be referenced", however, as per WP:VERIFY:

• The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability ...
• All material in Wikipedia articles must be attributable to a reliable published source ...
• Verifiability is one of Wikipedia's core content policies

If you want to keep the material, you're going to have provide references or sources. In the absence of any published sources, must of the detail in the section looks like original research, which is not allowed.

The section appears to have a distinct point of view, which violates WP:NPOV. It needs to be re-written from a more neutral perspective. FCuserk, I'm guessing from the contents of the section that you're probably a senior student at ASC, most likely in year 12 - but correct me if I'm wrong. This doesn't prevent you from editing the article, but it may does raise issues of neutrality and conflict of interest. If you are a student, or have some other close connection to the college, it's probably worth stating that connection in this discussion. For the record, until last year I was the parent of one or two senior students, and my wife worked in the canteen. I currently have no direct association with the college.

Finally, much of the detail is simply not notable enough for an encyclopedia. For example, the price of a leaver's jacket this year, the "hat rule" etc.

While I've no doubt the contents of the section are of interest to students (and perhaps staff) at the college, most of it does not belong in an encyclopedia. To keep the section, you're going to need to:

• Provide sources/references
• Prune it down significantly
• Write more neutrally

I - and no doubt, other editors - can help with the last two items, but only if you at least do the first. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:09, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

This section did indeed violate WP:V, WP:NPOV and probably WP:OR, all of which are fundamental core policies here. I have therefore removed the section. Hut 8.5 15:58, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

WACE results

I'm a little concerned that the Western Australian Certificate of Education results section (text originally added by Hughesdarren, then edited by me):

• is contrary to WP:WPSCHOOLS/AG#WNTI's "Comparisons of ... exam results, etc ..."
• is non-neutral with its assertion that "The school has established a good academic record and has featured regularly amongst the top performing schools"
• has columns like "% +75 in WACE" that may be meaningless to anyone outside Western Australia

Any suggests as to how we could address these issues? Or should we just delete the whole section? Mitch Ames (talk) 11:33, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Enrolment numbers

This edit changed the enrolment in the info box from "nearly 1200" to "1120". While the former value is approximate, it was referenced. Do we have reference for 1120? Mitch Ames (talk) 14:16, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Mitch Ames, I added text for the enrolment to the article with reference (read a bit further down in the diff). I don't always like a cite note in an infobox when the figure is in text and reffed there. MOS or not, I can't remember. I did name the ref. Put it in the infobox if you like. --Bleakcomb (talk) 14:34, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I should have read a bit more of the article before I posted...

However, the ref that says 1120 (actually 1118) is from 2012, so is a bit out of date. The ref that says nearly 1200 is later than that (it refers to events in 2013). So I've restored the "nearly 1200". Mitch Ames (talk) 14:36, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

The school website is not a particularly reliable source. The compliance report is not much better, but you would assume that as it was signed by the (acting?)principal it would carry some weight. At least it has a year on it. Where does the "nearly 1200" figure show a date for 2014? Also, guidelines for the school infobox only require the enrolment rounded to the nearest 10, as I did. Bleakcomb (talk) 14:51, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks also for reverting before the discussion is complete. Are you the page owner? Bleakcomb (talk) 14:59, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Where does the "nearly 1200" figure show a date for 2014? - on the bottom left corner. However I've quite often seen websites that just automatically put the current year, even when the page is clearly out of date, so admittedly that's not very reliable. The page does mention "from May 2013 until the present" so it's at least 2013. (The "accessed" date of the ref in an earlier version of our article shows that it was "nearly 1200" in May 2013.)

The My School profile says total enrolments for 2013 was 1123 students. Would that be a better reference and value. Presumably the infobox should also include |enrollment_as_of=2013. Mitch Ames (talk) 01:14, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

That would be better. Just the figure rounded to the nearest 10 per Wikipedia:WPSCH/INFOBOX is fine, though. And also from that guide there is no need for the "as of year" in the infobox and really no need for the citation in the infobox as long as the text is referenced in the article proper. Infoboxes are not text. Also, what do you mean by "our article"? (Serious question.) Bleakcomb (talk) 01:59, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Updates to cite MySchool web site.

what do you mean by "our article"? - The Wikipedia article.

Mitch Ames (talk) 09:45, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

That looks fine. Um, the "our article" question, I was wondering why you referred to the article as "our". Are you associated with the school in any way or have you been engaged by the school to make edits to this article? Bleakcomb (talk) 12:57, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

When I said "our", I referred to the Wikipedia editors - you, me, etc. As you so politely hinted earlier, I don't own the article, but I like to think that we, the Wikipedia community collectively, take a certain responsibility for maintaining the articles, hence the colloquial/informal "our".

My children did attend the school a few years back, and my wife worked there part-time for a while, hence my interest in the article. Other than that I have no association with the school, nor am I acting on the school's behalf or at its request. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:18, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Weasel words

@Gnangarra: Could you please tag specific weasel words/phrases in the article with inline tags - or list them here on the talk page. It would be easier to fix if we knew exactly what the problem was. Mitch Ames (talk) 08:59, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

It appears that the pieces of concern were removed as part of the copyright violations that were removed but the tag remained in place. The other issues are verifiability, and notability as all sources for the majority of the content are from the school, no independent substantive sources have been used Gnangarra 09:47, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

I suspected that was the case. I've now removed the {{weasel}} hatnote. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:27, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

 Resolved

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