Talk:Air raids on Japan/Archives/2021/August
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Government of Japan during the Allied Occupation
Hello Nick. I think it's vitally important to make clear to readers that when discussing the Japanese government from late August 1945 to April 28, 1952, the government was no longer under the control of Japan. It had lost its autonomy and existed as a functional arm of GHQ/SCAP, under the supreme command of general Douglas MacArthur, who ultimately reported to Truman (See Eiji Takemae Allied Occupation of Japan 2003). The GHQ/SCAP superstructure was the de facto government, had authoritarian unilateral power, and its censorship of information is well documented in the literature. To indicate this I made a very modest change, altering "postwar" Japanese government (which can be very misleading in its vagueness) to Allied Occupied Japanese government. I would be very curious to know why you found this offensive, given its obvious significance. Best, Plutarch09 (talk) 21:54, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
- The clunky wording, mainly, as well as the unsupported implication that the figures here were somehow false or manipulated - none of the sources states this. Nick-D (talk) 22:48, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
- I hear you about the wording. But I think clarity should always take precedence over prose. I disagree that by indicating Japan was under Allied control it implies that the numbers were “false or manipulated.” It doesn’t. However, as your inference suggests, it does self-evidently indicate bias. Lay readers should have this reliably sourced information, and make (or reject) that inference for themselves. Not doing so, I think, borders on misinformation, implying (as the corollary) that Japan independently and autonomously came to casualty numbers favorable to the US. This is not true. Best, Plutarch09 (talk) 00:04, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
- If you can provide sources to support your assertion that these figures were influenced by the US it would be a good addition. The US Strategic Bombing Survey actually came up with the highest estimate, albeit through what the source notes was a flawed methodology. Nick-D (talk) 01:51, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
- I’m not sure why you think I’m making that argument. I’m not making any arguments. I only included a relevant fact, that in 1949 the Japanese government was under the unconditional and unilateral control of the United States. This is completely non-controversial. From this you’ve drawn your own inference (a reasonable one) about the reliability of the data. The phrase “postwar Japanese government,” is grossly misleading in an article aimed at lay readers. I think any reasonable reader would incorrectly assume that this government was controlled by Japan, not the United States. The phrase doesn’t even have a technical meaning among historians, as far as I know, and historians use it casually to describe a range of periods after the war. Is there any reason beyond clunky-wording that you object to? Best, Plutarch09 (talk) 04:33, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
- If you can provide sources to support your assertion that these figures were influenced by the US it would be a good addition. The US Strategic Bombing Survey actually came up with the highest estimate, albeit through what the source notes was a flawed methodology. Nick-D (talk) 01:51, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
- I hear you about the wording. But I think clarity should always take precedence over prose. I disagree that by indicating Japan was under Allied control it implies that the numbers were “false or manipulated.” It doesn’t. However, as your inference suggests, it does self-evidently indicate bias. Lay readers should have this reliably sourced information, and make (or reject) that inference for themselves. Not doing so, I think, borders on misinformation, implying (as the corollary) that Japan independently and autonomously came to casualty numbers favorable to the US. This is not true. Best, Plutarch09 (talk) 00:04, 26 August 2021 (UTC)