Talk:Afrin Region

Infobox

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Country_subdivision_infobox_templates says "Template:Infobox settlement can also be used for country subdivisions, consider standardising on that one." so as nobody claims Erfrin is a country I think the country infobox should be replaced with the settlement infobox. Jzlcdh (talk) 20:26, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Done. Jzlcdh (talk) 16:50, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

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Requested move 28 November 2017

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moved as proposed. The discussion is close, but the supporters make a permissible case for the renaming of the entities carrying over to their article titles. bd2412 T 18:09, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Afrin Canton → Afrin Region – The cantons have been organized into regions. No longer referred to Afrin Canton in DFNS media. Keeping name here creates confusion as the subordinate provinces are also sometimes referred to as cantons. AntonSamuel (talk) 11:34, 28 November 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. Bradv 04:11, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Oppose - According to Hawar News Afrin Region is a new entity, which contains Afrin Canton. Batternut (talk) 21:46, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Once more, you misunderstand, the former three cantons have been renamed to regions (Afrin, Euphrates, Jazira), and they have subordinate provinces also called cantons (Afrin, Shahba, Kobani, Tel Abyad, Qamishli, Hasakah). All of the political infrastructure of the former cantons are intact and unchanged, they have just been renamed into regions. What are named cantons/provinces now are not the same as what was referred to as cantons before. AntonSamuel (talk) 21:50, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Support - The established Cantons (Jazira, Kobani, Afrin) have been reorganized as Regions (Jazira, Euphrates, Afrin) with newly organized subordinate provinces/cantons, areas, districts and communes. The upcoming elections of the DFNS will likely increase attention in the media about DFNS and it administrative mechanisms, I suggest a quick move so that confusion is minimized. AntonSamuel (talk) 22:06, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Comment - Surely it is premature to change the article as the proposer (AntonSamuel) has done here, prejudging the outcome of a requested move (and ignoring WP:BRD too)? Batternut (talk) 23:50, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Put on hold - As far as I can see, serious sourcing is difficult. While my impression is that indeed Afrin Region is denoting the entity now known as Afrin Canton, I would not know how to source that claim convincingly. I would recommend to wait for good sources, for now adding a sentence on the issue to the article as it is. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 22:00, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

This article seems fairly well researched, and pretty clearly states that the former cantons have been reorganized into regions: https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2017/08/turkey-syria-kurds-fear-improved-ties-ankara-washington.html Would you consider that to be good enough of a source to justify a move? AntonSamuel (talk) 12:52, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Well, you can probably see as well as I do that there are some inconsistencies in the presentation of that source. But I would not mind you to go ahead, so here is my formal weak support for moving the article (in fact you already have rewritten the articles concerned for the new lemma anyway). However, I recommend to be careful with that source, as the author apparently misunderstands and misrepresents the previous canton system. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 23:22, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Support - As AntonSamuel noted, several sources, most importantly Hawar (main news outlet of Rojava and the SDF), confirmed the reorganization. The sources confirm that the new regions are the old, renamed cantons, with additional sub-units added. The only real change in this regard is the Shahba region, a "region"/"canton" which previously was only very vaguely integrated into the official system. Shahba is now divided, with one part absorbed into Afrin, and the other remaining a semi-official area around Manbij. Anyway, the regions are the new, official components of Rojava, and that should be reflected here. Applodion (talk) 21:04, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

This article is bullshit and the name does not exist outside this Wiki and some Kurdish propaganda outlets. All information here is made up by Kurdish propagandists here and in Hawar news. It fulfills the requirements for a speedy deletion. Shahba region???? Come on! Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 06:24, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

This article should be deleted

This place won't exist within one month. So it should be deleted or merged with Afrin District. Beshogur (talk) 16:00, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

I think adding a former entity infobox would be the right thing to do. 3bdulelah (talk) 11:53, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

This article was created with no reason or context. It just duplicated Afrin Canton article, and should be redirected to that article. I am asking for opinions here. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 04:59, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

No need to delete the article for a political entity that existed several years. Just because the article is currently not up-to-date and partially duplicated does not warrant deletion. As 3bdulelah said, when Afrin Region is disbanded we can simply change it to former country infobox and past tense. Applodion (talk) 12:22, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Fork?

This might be stupid question but, is this article a WP:CFORK of Afrin District? It seems both articles are talking about the exact same place. Pinging last few people people: @Thepharoah17:, @Konli17:, @عمرو بن كلثوم:.VR _talk 21:25, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Afrin District is an administrative unit of the Syrian Arab Republic, which controlled Afrin until 2012. Afrin Region is an administrative unit of the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria, which controlled Afrin from 2012-2018. I don't know how much they differ in extent, if at all. Konli17 (talk) 21:54, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Great question, VR. Yes, it is talking about the exact same place, just from a Kurdish POV standpoint. It should be merged into Afrin District. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 22:42, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

No, it is not. This one currently does not even cover most of Afrin District and has a completely different government. They are not the same. Applodion (talk) 23:14, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Ok, so عمرو بن كلثوم and Konli17 don't think the two differ, but Applodion does.

Applodion, in your opinion are Afrin District and Afrin Region referring to the same place or different places? If the same place, how else are they different?VR _talk 02:19, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

They are not the same place. 1st of all, they have different governments. 2nd, Afrin Region never completely overlapped with Afrin District. Afrin Region was initially larger, covering areas outside Afrin District as well such as Tell Rifaat (which is part of Azaz District). After the Turkish-led offensive, Afrin Region has been pushed out of Afrin District completely, and now only controls areas around Tell Rifaat. Applodion (talk) 09:57, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Applodion it sounds like then this article should be about SDF controlled parts of Afrin district and not Afrin district in general.

Here's an idea for Applodion and عمرو بن كلثوم, what if we called this article "SDF-controlled Afrin district"? Or merged it into Rojava?VR _talk 04:03, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

I think that's a great idea. Another name might be "Afrin District under SDF control". Either name is fine. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 04:23, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Not it is not. This article is already about Afrin Region, not Afrin District. It is not the same! Why should we merge it with anything? Thats like reasoning "we should merge Utah with Utah Territory, it's the same". For course it is not. "Afrin District under SDF control" is unacceaptable as it is 1) not the official name, and 2) completely incorrect (as explained above, Afrin Region never overlapped with Afrin District!). In addition, we do not rename the rest of Afrin District to "Afrin District under Turkish-SNA control", now do we? Afrin Region has its own government and territory, justifiying the article's existence. Applodion (talk) 09:40, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

What should be done is a rewrite. I freely admit that the article is in a bad shape right now, and overlaps too strongly with other articles. Applodion (talk) 09:49, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Applodion You are correct that Afrin Region doesn't even overlap with Afrin District because Afrin Region currently only consists of Tell Rifaat and surrounding area, which is actually in the Azaz district. In that case, most of the material in this article should be moved over to Afrin District.

A lot of content is sourced to Rudaw, is that a reliable source? I see عمرو بن كلثوم already asked this question at here and it was also asked here.VR _talk 11:33, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

To merge it with Azaz would be equally useless, as Afrin Region controlled most of Afrin District in the past. It should not be merged with anything. The article has every right to exist. And yes, Rudaw is biased, but it is certainly reliable enough (compared to other partisan sources like SOHR and al-Masdar news which we also use). Applodion (talk) 18:11, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps the best option will be for me to rewrite the article - I will also try to find some more reliable sources, such as academic papers, and try to include Afrin Region's relation to the Syrian government (considering that the current remnants of Afrin Region operate under Syrian Army protection, it seems likely that there are relations). However, the rewrite might take time, as I also have RL stuff to do and wanted to improve some other articles on Wikipedia. Applodion (talk) 18:22, 14 December 2020 (UTC)