Talk:Abu al-Yusr al-Bazdawi

Incorrect attribution of the acclaimed Usul al-Bazdawi to Abu al-Yusr

There is a serious flaw in this article, whereas it attributes the acclaimed "Usul al-Bazdawi" to Saddr al-Islam Abu al-Yusr al-Bazdawi. In fact, the acclaimed "Usul al-Bazdawi" was written by Abu al-Yusr's elder brother, Fakhr al-Islam Abu al-Hassan al-Bazdawi. The original title of the book is Kanz al-Usul.

It is true that Abu al-Yusr also has a book on the principles of fiqh (Usul al-Din), called Ma'refat al-Hujjaj al-Shariah, but the description given in the article seems to be referring to the acclaimed Usul al-Bazdawi. Cabolitæ (talk) 07:58, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

See for instance, "Locating the Sharīʿa: Legal Fluidity in Theory, History and Practice" edited by Sohaira Siddiqui, Brill Publications 2019, pages 92-93.' User:TheEagle107 you may want to have a look at this. Cabolitæ (talk) 08:08, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

@Cabolitae: Peace be upon you, and Allah's mercy and His blessings.

Well, the source you have mentioned above, says that:

The early classical period of the Hanafi school produced the most influential teaching text in Hanafi legal theory, the work of Fakhr al-Islām 'Alī b. Muhammad al-Bazdawi (d. 482/1089), whose Kanz al-wusul, known popularly as Usul al-Bazdawi, remained a standard teaching text for centuries, generating a large number of commentaries.

His older brother Fakhr al-Islam al-Bazdawi (d. 482 AH) who wrote the well-known Hanafi book, Kanz al-Wusul ila Ma'rifat al-Usul (A Treasury on Attaining Knowledge of the Usul) in which he dealt with the usul (origins, sources and fundamentals) of Islamic law. This is a book on Usul al-Fiqh (the principles/bases of Islamic jurisprudence), NOT in Usul al-Din (the principles of religion).

Several scholars have written commentaries and interpretations on the Kanz al-Wusul. Among the most famous of them were: Husam al-Din al-Syghnaqi, 'Ala' al-Din al-Bukhari, and Akmal al-Din al-Babarti.

As for Sadr al-Islam Abu al-Yusr al-Bazdawi (d. 493 AH), he wrote a treatise on theology, named Kitab Usul al-Din (Book of the Principles of Religion), provides a theological summary of the major aspects of Sunni Islam. He also have written a book on Usul al-Fiqh, which have been printed in the modern-day under the name of Ma'rifat al-Hujaj al-Shar'iyya (Arabic: معرفة الحجج الشرعية). However, some researchers questioned/doubted the accuracy of this printed book to him. (Source)--TheEagle107 (talk) 12:38, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you User:TheEagle107 for the explanations. On the difference between Usul al-Fiqh and Usul al-Din, contrary to what we would expect from the names, it actually turns out that they are exactly the same discipline, and the names have been used interchangeably in the old books. I think Usul al-Fiqh is more common nowadays, while Usul al-Din was more commonly used up to 15th or 17th centuries. By the way, the link to Usul al-Din in wikipedia is misleading, because it redirects to the Twelver Shia's usul al-din. I think there should a disambiguation page where it should clarify the links for the Sunni's and the Shia's usul al-din(s). Anyhow, this was just for clarification purposes.

My main concern, however, is that: (1) the article says "author of Kitab Usul al-Din", which may be misleading for many readers because they would assume that this refers to the acclaimed Usul al-Bazdawi. (Notwithstanding the fact that some Arabic and English sources have misleadingly attributed the book to Abu'l Yusr.) I suggest we directly put the name of his book, i.e. "Ma'rifat al-Hujjaj al-Shari'ah", in the article. (2) I suspect that the description by Hans-Peter Linss which is reported in the article, might be referring to Kanz al-Usul (Usul al-Bazdawi), because from what I recall when I had a quick look at Abu'l Yusr's book I could not see any review of the literature as suggested by Linss. Cabolitæ (talk) 06:17, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

@Cabolitae: Yes, there are several differences between the Sunnis, the Shi'as and the Mu'tazilis concerning/regarding Usul al-Din. Usul al-Din (Arabic: أصول الدین) is a theological term referring to the fundamental beliefs of Islam, which literally means "the principles/roots of religion". 'Ilm al-Kalam (Arabic: علم الكلام) is also called 'ilm Usul al-Din, 'ilm al-Tawhid, or 'ilm al-'Aqidah. One of the oldest titles was given by Abu Hanifa (d. 150/767), in the second/eighth century, who named it 'Ilm al-Fiqh al-Akbar.

There are some books written by different authors, which share the same title of "Usul al-Din". For example:

• Kitab Usul al-Din by Abu Mansur 'Abd al-Qahir al-Baghdadi.
• Kitab Usul al-Din by Jamal al-Din al-Ghaznawi.
• Kitab Usul al-Din by Abu al-Yusr al-Bazdawi is a book on theology, while Kitab Usul Fakhr al-Islam al-Bazdawi or Usul al-Bazdawi (Kanz al-Wusul ila Ma'rifat al-Usul) is a book on Usul al-Fiqh. Both books are printed and available for reading and downloading online. You can download Kitab Usul al-Din by Abu al-Yusr al-Bazdawi from here: www.archive.org/download/19332/usool-al-deen.pdf

And here are some sources that mention the Book of Usul al-Din by Abu al-Yusr al-Bazdawi:

• Qatar National Library
• King Abdulaziz University‎
• Al-'Alam by al-Zirikli
• Buhuth fi al-Milal wa al-Nihal by Ja'far al-Subhani
• (Usul-üd-Din) Ebü’l-Yüsr el-Pezdevî’nin (ö. 493/1100) kelâma dair eseri (in Turkish)

I suggest to resolve this confusion that a note be added in the article to clarify the misunderstanding that some readers might have, and/or creating an article about Fakhr al-Islam al-Bazdawi.

No problem, feel free to do whatever you want. Any contribution will be welcomed and appreciated. Thank you for your consideration.--TheEagle107 (talk) 11:31, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you User:TheEagle107. I brought changes to the article per our discussion. Please feel free to edit/fix as you see fit. Cabolitæ (talk) 06:50, 11 July 2020 (UTC)