Talk:2024 Kansas City parade shooting/Archive 1

Textual cite for 14 estimated injured?

This figure is given in the kctv5 video, on the linked page. However the linked videos are often changed. It's also not clear (from the video) whether the 14 includes the death. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 21:47, 14 February 2024 (UTC).

CNN. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 21:48, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

The press conference the KC Police just gave said 10-15 injured. ViceViceBaby (talk) 21:52, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 21:56, 14 February 2024 (UTC).

Someone is citing New York times for 10-15 ingjured. I can't access this article, so I'm reverting to 10-14 figure given by the Kansas City Police a few minutes ago. If there is a good reason to think the NYT is more accurate than the chief of police, please let US know in your edit summary. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 22:05, 14 February 2024 (UTC).

Thanks for pointing out I misheard the figure. 10-15 is what she said. Thanks also for sharing the NYT story. I still prefer the X link, it is accessible to all. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 22:17, 14 February 2024 (UTC).

15 I last heard.... BigKrow (talk) 22:18, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Twitter and other social media links should be avoided in favor of independent reporting. See WP:PAYWALL. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 22:26, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

I agree. BigKrow (talk) 22:27, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

14, or 15?

Injured? Confirm? Thank you. BigKrow (talk) 22:08, 14 February 2024 (UTC) On February 14, 2024, at least one person was killed and fourteen others were injured, or 15? Thank you, i know numbers will change.... BigKrow (talk) 22:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Confirm that the police chief gave the range 10-15, see above. "We do not have exact number of people who were victims of a gunshot wound, it could be upward from 10 to 15 with one deceased." Is the best transcript I can give right now. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 22:21, 14 February 2024 (UTC).

Thank you Rich. BigKrow (talk) 22:22, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Per AP: One person was killed and up to 15 were injured in a shooting at the end of the parade to celebrate the Super Bowl win by the Kansas City Chiefs, sending terrified fans running for cover and marring yet another high-profile public event with gun violence. Kansas City Police Chief Stacey Graves detailed the shooting’s toll at a news conference (...) --Super Goku V (talk) 22:22, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Super Goku! BigKrow (talk) 22:23, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

DEATH TOLL

does anyone have confirmation on 2 confirmed deaths 47.225.106.135 (talk) 00:17, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Per the KC Star, KCPD are still saying it's just the 1 fatality. Obviously and unfortunately that may change. Paris1127 (talk) 00:22, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

They just confirmed there is a 2nd fatality somebody needs to add it 2600:100A:B0C7:1661:A445:B796:744E:F4B1 (talk) 16:26, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done - So far, the Kansas City Star is the only organization that has reported a second death and they seem to have retracted that at this time. --Super Goku V (talk) 00:52, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Information

Can we please make sure to read the latest news when adding injury numbers. Some people have been editing and including the crowd-trample injuries with the gunshot injuries. Can we please make sure to have accurate numbers. Thank You! 2600:100A:B0C7:1661:A445:B796:744E:F4B1 (talk) 02:29, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Having the NRA as a source?

Why is the NRA even used as a source? I reverted an IP who removed the fact that MO is an open carry state, but I noticed the info is sourced to the obviously biased (and I'm not exaggerating) NRA, making me doubt I should've reverted in the first place. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 03:16, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

I made that edit, because the source before it (from CNN) mentions the NRA. The NRA link lists out the gun laws. If anything, we can rely on the first one, and not the second (NRA).

From the CNN article:

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/kansas-city-chiefs-parade-shooting-02-14-24/index.html

"(Andrew) McCabe noted that Missouri's gun laws do not require residents to have a state permit or licensing requirement before buying or owning rifles, shotguns or handguns, according to the National Rifle Association of America."

I went ahead and removed the NRA mention, but it is still in the CNN article. CNC33 (. . .talk) 04:41, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

CNN mentioning the NRA is fine. --Super Goku V (talk) 00:43, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

It's worth making the point that the question "Is this a reliable source?" should only be answered after considering the supplementary question: "A reliable source for what?" And I think NRA is a RS for gun laws by state. A government web site might be better though. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 14:42, 15 February 2024 (UTC).

Since the shooter was a minor who could not legally purchase a firearm, it doesn't make any sense to list any information about Missouri's gun laws at all. 2600:1012:B138:DBF1:287A:F6FB:74A8:74CD (talk) 13:35, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

A new discussion was created at #Background section below regarding that paragraph. --Super Goku V (talk) 20:46, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Image

Can we get a more updated image of union station? 2600:100A:B0C7:1661:A445:B796:744E:F4B1 (talk) 04:17, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

We should be looking for images of the event. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 04:37, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

I took tons of photos before, during, and after the shooting. I'd link the shared google drive where they stored for use, but that's not allowed. What's the easiest way to publish thrm for use if needed? 2603:8090:1300:CD00:9172:1AB3:FDAD:528A (talk) 11:11, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Please upload them to Wikimedia Commons at c:Special:UploadWizard. If you have any trouble, feel free to let me know, and I will help out.

Alternatively, you can upload them to a social media site like Reddit or Twitter, link it here, and include in the post a message along the lines of "I release the content of this post under the Creative Commons Attribution-Sharealike license 4.0". Before you do so, please make sure you understand what it means to donate material to Wikipedia. Thanks! ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 13:34, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Imgur is another option, be sure to tag them CCBYSA4.0. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 14:38, 15 February 2024 (UTC).

Other KC area teams reactions

Since this is a sports event, I do feel that having other teams reactions is valid. I have a source for it. You can remove Sporting KC as we don't have confirmation other than a retweet of Children's Mercy (their park's sponsor) statement on the event. If you wish not to add, I understand.

https://www.kmbc.com/article/kansas-citys-professional-sports-teams-mass-shooting/46793157 47.153.148.108 (talk) 06:58, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Can I request a possible suggestion as to how you wanted it worded in the article first? Right now, the only thing I could see is adding it after The Chiefs and the NFL expressed condolences. to make it something like The Chiefs and the NFL expressed condolences. Other local teams, including the Kansas City Royals, also expressed condolences. --Super Goku V (talk) 00:41, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Sure, that works. 47.153.148.108 (talk) 18:03, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done - Added here. --Super Goku V (talk) 20:35, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Sources

There are many reliable sources for most of the (currently limited) information in this article. Please try to use sources that are widely available, and avoid those that need a subscription. For example fox4kc and kmbc are not available in the UK, and probably not available in the rest of Europe. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 15:21, 15 February 2024 (UTC).

WP:PAYWALL refutes this. Please do not attempt to control sources on the account you personally cannot access them. Other editors are willing to help. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 16:59, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Can you update that the shooting was done my minors and that the motive was gang related.That was just released on national news like CNN and FOX 2600:100A:B0C7:1661:A445:B796:744E:F4B1 (talk) 22:25, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

 Partly done - I have made it clearer that two of the three were "teenage juveniles" and that the third juvenile was released. (There is some confusion about the age of the person released with the Kansas City Star and sources citing them claiming the released individual is an adult. As far as has been reported, there wasn't an adult in custody, but maybe a details is inaccurate. Going with CNN and the best known info for now.) (Amended 00:57, 16 February 2024 (UTC) - KCS has retracted the info and is now reporting it was a juvenile.)

I have not written that the shooting was committed by the minors nor that the motive that this was gang related, for a number of reasons, including WP:BLPCRIME. If you can at least directly quote a source that makes the claim that the minors definitely committed the shooting, then feel free to mention it here. Same for the gang related part. --Super Goku V (talk) 00:31, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

unnecessary sectioning

hello, does it make sense to merge the following sections into one?

• background
• shooting
• victims
• suspects

i am sure we are following precedence from other, larger or more established articles, but currently the article feels a bit clunky. Pdubs.94 (talk) 15:38, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

It doesn't make sense to me. Plenty of information is yet to come, and each of these sections will be greatly expanded. They shouldn't be lumped together. Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talk • contributions) 17:13, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

I see no issue. This is the standard structure for nascent mass shootings. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 19:24, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Taylor Twellman tweet secondary source

I have a secondary source for tbe Taylor Twellman tweet that was removed. Feel free to add it back whenever possible.

https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/nfl-stars-and-celebrities-react-to-shooting-at-2024-super-bowl-parade/ 159.115.9.47 (talk) 17:39, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

 Already done - Looks like Marcus Markup did so here. --Super Goku V (talk) 00:35, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

"Superfluous/Vague Details" being removed

I've noticed that details and first hand accounts & quotes that I've added are being either removed entirely or trimmed down to basically a five word sentence by others. I understand that at times it can help to the page, but it seems to be incredibly simplifying of the situation and not giving the full context or all of the information. Personally I feel that it helps add context but am reaching out for opinions. Leaky.Solar (talk) 17:39, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

I regularly edit mass shooting articles and personal accounts are infrequently included because of the infallibility of memory and the lack of purpose. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 18:08, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

1993, 1994, 2011 Stanley Cup riots - comparable sports finals events gone horribly wrong

Somewhere in this article, some comparison or another should be made to the Stanley Cup (NHL equivalent of the NFL) riots that took place in 1993 in Montreal after the victory by the Montreal Canadiens, in 1994 in Vancouver after the defeat of the Vancouver Canucks, and in 2011 again in Vancouver and again after the defeat of the Canucks. Here are Wikipedia links to each of these articles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Stanley_Cup_Finals#Riot

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Vancouver_Stanley_Cup_riot

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Vancouver_Stanley_Cup_riot

While unlike in Kansas City there were no deaths in any of these riots, there were lots of injuries, some here and there being serious or critical. The overall point here is that just like in Kansas City, so in those incidents we're dealing with sports finals events or their aftermath gone horribly wrong. Therav (talk) 15:36, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Riots and a shooting aren't exactly comparable. Have any other reliable sources made the comparison between those events and this? Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talk • contributions) 15:41, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

I'd argue the Nuggets shooting last year and the Raptors shooting in 2019 are more accurate comparisons. 47.153.148.108 (talk) 18:04, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Background section

Since I have now been reverted twice, it’s time for discussion. I argue that background section only needs to touch on the background of the shooting. The history of Union Station and any previous shootings is not relevant, nor is the inclusion of Missouri being an open carry state. We are not a news website, we don’t need click baity filler additions to the article. We are an encyclopedia. The inclusion of these details feels emotionally manipulative and therefore not NPOV. I move these two paragraphs be removed and leave the section on-topic for the shooting its covering. TrueCRaysball | ^#RaysUp 16:24, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

I agree it is not needed per WP:COATRACK. Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talk • contributions) 19:01, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Also agree. It is not NPOV Weslima (talk) 19:55, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

The inclusion of these details feels emotionally manipulative and therefore not NPOV. Personally, I don't see anything close to emotional manipulation, but very well, if that is how it is being read then I will defer. --Super Goku V (talk) 20:28, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Suspects and charges

Wanting to get consensus on this before making changes. At the moment, we have the lines: Two of the three suspects detained were juveniles. One of the suspects was released after that person was determined to not have been involved with the shooting, while the two juvenile suspects remain in custody. The first sentence is based on early reports. However, it seems that all three detained over the shooting were juveniles: Kansas City police officer Alayna Gonzalez told USA TODAY that officers detained three juveniles but have released one who they determined wasn’t involved. Officers are working with juvenile prosecutors to “review investigative findings and determine applicable charges," Gonzalez said. Therefore, should the line be adjusted to say the following while including the charges? The three suspects detained were juveniles. One of the juveniles was released after that person was determined to not have been involved with the shooting, while the other two juvenile suspects remain in custody and have been charged.

Additionally, how should the situation with the Wichita man be dealt with? Excluded from the article or just briefly mentioned that they have been charged while clarifying that they are not a suspect? --Super Goku V (talk) 02:37, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Assuming at the present moment that there are no objections or issues regarding this. If that changes, then please revert, reply here, and ping me. --Super Goku V (talk) 05:45, 22 February 2024 (UTC)