Talk:2023 Wagner Group plane crash

Requested Move 24 September 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. closing early per WP:SNOW. (closed by non-admin page mover) The Night Watch (talk) 00:57, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

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2023 Wagner Group plane crash → 2023 Wagner Group Jet Crash – Jet is a better word and it was a Jet. DitorWiki (talk) 04:47, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. The general kind of aircraft involved is largely irrelevant and does not add to the descriptive title. All we need is the who and the what, and "plane crash" concisely describes the event. Per my comment in the previous RM, I would support a move to Wagner Group plane crash, as the year is not needed for disambiguation. Also, the event descriptor, regardless of wording, should not be capitalized; i.e. the proposed move should really be 2023 Wagner Group jet crash. Mdewman6 (talk) 18:26, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose - After a lengthy discussion at the previous RM, the closer, just six days ago, wrote "Throughout this discussion, multiple alternatives have been suggested to the name proposed. There has been minimal support for the originally proposed move title, but better support for renaming the article to "2023 Wagner Group plane crash", or "2023 Wagner Group jet crash". Most appeared to be fine with either plane or jet, with a slight slant towards plane"(emphasis added). Unless there is a legitimate claim that that one was closed improperly then this new one is completely unnecessary and should be closed promptly. For the record, I also agree with the reasoning of Mdewman6 above. Davidships (talk) 20:06, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per Mdewman6 and Davidships. HappyWith (talk) 20:55, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

  Update: Seems like it's WP:SNOWing here... HappyWith (talk) 20:00, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

• Procedural speedy close. The option was under consideration in the most recent RM (which stayed open until last week) and did not garn much support there despite a lengthy discussion with good participation. Reopening the same request could be considered disruptive. — kashmīrī ^TALK 22:52, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per Mdewman6. RecycledPixels (talk) 07:08, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose Jet is too specific and could make a first impression upon users that the Wagner Group, a private military company, has a military jet fleet itself. Borgenland (talk) 07:47, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per all above. S5A-0043^Talk 11:24, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose. Per above. Saying the word jet is way to specific. The Lokomotiv Yaroslavl plane crash also features a similar title. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 18:08, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose, needlessly specific per all of the above; current title is adequately WP:CONCISE. Carguychris (talk) 19:23, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

What is this? Propaganda? Never!

"A Telegram channel linked to the Wagner Group, named Grey Zone"

Please explain how they're "linked to the Wagner Group". Very curious. AntiBiasBoy (talk) 23:24, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that in the supplied ref, the BBC's Security Correspondent and MI6 expert Frank Gardner OBE was referring to https://t.me/s/grey_zone and not https://thegrayzone.com/ . So it's not as rabid as it may first seem.

However I take your point about propaganda; considering this article is so tightly tied down, it is very poor. As an example it screams that Putin is denying it was a bomb but the Investigative Committee of the Russian Federation Putin allegedly tasked with the investigation have already linked on their website to Kommersant saying "Let us note that, according to experts in the field of accident investigation, the cause of the crash could have been an explosion that occurred in the tail section of the plane, which was torn off from it". [1] Kommersant also have a good early article on the crash [2]. Of course I'm not permitted to add any of this.

Maybe Wikipedia really is better left open to the people rather than Wikicrats and professionals extended auto confirmed editors. Just a thought. Amble123 (talk) 00:33, 13 May 2024 (UTC)