Talk:2023 Turkish general election

Turkish general election, 2023

Hello, fellow contributors! This article has been laid out on the basis of my assumption that we will reach a consensus to merge the 2018 parliamentary, presidential, and general election articles into one. If, ultimately, it turns out that they are not merged after all, then this article should naturally also be split up. But for now, I suggest the following layout for the combined 2023 general election article:

1 Background

1.1 Elections of 2018

2 Electoral system

2.1 Electoral districts

3 Candidates and parties

3.1 Presidential candidates

3.2 Contesting parties

4 Endorsements

5 Campaign

6 Opinion polls

7 Results

7.1 Presidential election

7.2 Parliamentary election

8 References

As we saw in the 2018 election, the campaigns and elections for president and parliament are very much intertwined, and I really don’t think we need to split the article into two separate main sections, or halves, covering each of them. I am confident that we’ll be able to lay it all out neatly even in a joint article. The only issue that I am not entirely sure how to solve is the main right-hand infoboxes. I’ve been looking around on the articles of other countries with similar systems, and it seems to be virtually universal that they simply omit the parliamentary election infobox altogether, and keep the presidential election infobox at the very top of the article. The actual results section is therefore largely reserved for tables and graphs only. I, for one, think this is what we should do here in the Turkish article as well, but if anyone has objections or alternative solutions, please express them. I think @Nub Cake came up with a very impressive solution in the 2018 general election article, though I personally feel that it suits best in that type of summary articles, as opposed to in ordinary election articles, which I believe should use the standard infoboxes. I’d like to hear everyone’s views on this. Anyway, the plan to drop the parliamentary infobox is the reason why I have updated the ‘contesting parties’ section in this article to focus more on each party’s 2018 result than on ideology; my intention is for it to fill the same purpose as the classic top-of-article parliamentary infobox.

On a final note, I think we should definitely avoid a repeat of the situation in early 2018, when we had 30+ potential presidential candidates listed in the article. We should avoid adding names until they actually hint at a candidacy themselves, instead of adding them whenever some obscure online newspaper lists some names just for sensational effect. Until then, I think we should leave the candidate field as it is in this first draft. Μαρκος Δ 16:51, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Do you have any idea when this might go from being a future event to a current event? Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 13:01, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Well, since the guidelines for the current event template state that it should normally only be included in an article for about a day, I assume it should be added sometime in June 2023. In election articles, I think it's normal to only add the template once the polling booths are actually open. Μαρκος Δ 01:20, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

That makes sense, thanks. — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 09:19, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Delete this page

Why do we have the following 3 articles:

• 2023 Turkish general election
• 2023 Turkish presidential election
• 2023 Turkish parliamentary election

We should only have one article for the presidential election and one for the parliamentary election. So this page should probably be a disambiguation page, similar to Opinion polling for the 2023 Turkish general election. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 12:06, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

I support a merger.

:* 2018 Turkish parliamentary election --> 2018 Turkish general election

• 2023 Turkish parliamentary election --> 2023 Turkish general election

Beshogur (talk) 17:21, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

I added an example on User:Beshogur/sandbox. Thoughts? @Leftwinguy92, Charles Essie, Μαρκος Δ, Mélencron, David O. Johnson, Nub Cake, Shadow4dark, Paradise Chronicle, Μαρκος Δ, and CLLBDK: There is no point in having two different pages. Also parliamentary elections is simply general elections. It is known as genel seçimleri in Turkey, not parlamento/meclis seçimleri. Beshogur (talk) 19:10, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

I merged both 2023 articles. Thoughts, it's basically pointless to have three separate articles. Beshogur (talk) 07:30, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

@Beshogur: the articles about the 2018 election are like this too, I think those should be merged too. Betseg (talk) 07:40, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

I'd support redirecting 2018 Turkish parliamentary election and 2023 Turkish parliamentary election to 2018 Turkish general election and 2023 Turkish general election respectively in order for the articles to be consistent with previous elections which are all styled as general elections. Vacant0 (talk) 09:48, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

We still have an issue with the following 3 pages:

• Opinion polling for the 2023 Turkish general election
• Opinion polling for the 2023 Turkish presidential election
• Opinion polling for the 2023 Turkish parliamentary election

a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 10:30, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

@Vacant0: I agree with you. those general election pages of 2018 and 2023 doesn't tell anything at all. Number 57 (talk · contribs) says that the governmental system changed. However then still there should be two articles, not three. [1] as you see here. YSK still refers to them as general election of parliamentarians. Beshogur (talk) 11:16, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

If you want to reduce the number of articles from three to two, you could turn the "general election" article into a DAB or WP:DABCONCEPT page. Number 57 11:48, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Sorry for pings. Do you suggest turning this into dab page, and continue with the title parliamentary election for legislative elections? I think three separate articles might confuse bunch of readers. Unless we can't merge them into one page, we should decrease into two articles. I would like to hear other users as well. Beshogur (talk) 12:23, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Yes, first choice is one article; if there is too much text for one, then split it into two but keep the general election as a short WP:DABCONCEPT page directing readers to the other two. Number 57 15:40, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

I've reverted the merge as I think this is a very bad idea. "general election" has two meanings; in countries with parliamentary systems it refers to parliamentary elections. In countries with presidential systems it refers to elections to both the presidency and parliament simultaneously (like 2023 Nigerian general election or 2023 Guatemalan general election).

As Turkey now has a presidential system, "general election" now has the latter meaning, so readers arriving at the 2023 general election article would reasonably expect to find details of the presidential election. IMO the better solution would be to rename all the pre-2018 general election articles to "parliamentary election". Cheers, Number 57 11:03, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

@Number 57: I disagree. As I explained, there is no such thing as "parliamentary elections" in Turkish. Turkish election board refers to the election as general election, and separately the presidential election. Just because your examples are wikipedia inventions, doesn't mean it should apply here as well. Beshogur (talk) 11:12, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

That's a relevant argument on Turkish Wikipedia, but not on English Wikipedia. One can easily find references in English sources to parliamentary elections in Turkey,[2] even in sources from Turkey![3] This is not a Wikipedia invention. Cheers, Number 57 11:17, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

I don't think terminology is problem here. General election = parliamentary election in this case. I don't get how general election refers to both parliamentary and presidential election. Beshogur (talk) 11:20, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

It's standard terminology used across the world (more examples include 2019 Argentine general election, 2020 Bolivian general election, 2022 Brazilian general election, 2020 Burkinabè general election, 2020 Burundian general election, 2021 Chilean general election, 2022 Kenyan general election, 2021 Peruvian general election, 2022 Philippine general election, 2022 Serbian general election, 2019 Uruguayan general election, etc etc). Number 57 11:26, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

That makes more sense, though a move request for all 1923–Nov 2015 parliamentary election articles will probably be needed then. Vacant0 (talk) 12:01, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Why? It doesn't make sense if they were always referred to as general election(s).[4] Beshogur (talk) 12:06, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

@Number 57: with all respect. In most of your examples, those two elections are merged into one "general election" page. See templates below. I checked them all one by one. That's not the case here. Beshogur (talk) 12:02, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Not sure what point you're trying to make. You said you were not aware that presidential and parliamentary elections being held together are referred to as general elections. I was just giving you some eexamples to prove they are. The articles tend to be separated out into presidential and parliamentary only when the single article becomes too large, as there's no point in having two articles when a subject can be covered in one. Also, you don't have to ping me. Thanks, Number 57 12:10, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

This once again: @Chidgk1:@Betseg:@Randam:@Shadow4dark:@Nub Cake:@CLLBDK:@Uness232: and others I forgot. What are your thoughts on redirecting Turkish general election articles (2018 and 2023) to parliamentary elections, thus removing a third page totally. See French elections for example. This may confuse readers. Sadly we can't see the pageviews, because the graph doesn't work.

I agree. The general election article is redundant. David O. Johnson (talk) 11:53, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

My latest proposal is redirecting general election into parliamentary election. Both 2018 and 2023. Please respond your thoughts. Beshogur (talk) 17:41, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

That sounds good to me. David O. Johnson (talk) 14:20, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

I support redirecting both 2018 and 2023 pages into their parliamentary counterparts. Not only is it confusing for readers, it is redundant to have these two general election pages as repeats of information already found on the other pages. Not sure what should be done about the title though, I would vote for now to keep the pages named parliamentary elections, although it is slightly confusing as you are reading through the elections to suddenly shift terminology from 'general' to 'parliamentary', some consistency should probably be considered. Yeoutie (talk) 20:18, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

@Number 57: Thoughts? Beshogur (talk) 20:41, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

As per above, if you want to do this, I would suggest all general election articles are moved to "parliamentary election" for consistency. Number 57 21:40, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Hmm thus a total requested move? But in a parliamentary system, general election refers to parliamentary election. Am I wrong? Beshogur (talk) 21:52, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes. In some countries with a parliamentary system it is called a general election, but in others referred to as a parliamentary election. For example 2021 Icelandic parliamentary election, 2021 Albanian parliamentary election, 2023 Bulgarian parliamentary election etc. Also, it doesn't need a WP:RM. You can just do it boldly unless there are any objections here (which there aren't). Cheers, Number 57 17:15, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll do after there is consensus on these two. Beshogur (talk) 17:38, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

Great Turkiye Party?

It stopped being a thing in 1983. Why is it listed here? Genabab (talk) 20:02, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Kurdish HDP deleted by mistake?

Why is the Kurdish party Peoples' Democratic Party (HDP) not mentioned at all on this page? They are mentioned both on the 2023 Turkish presidential election and 2023 Turkish parliamentary election pages as part of the Labour and Freedom Alliance. With the comment "Participates in elections within Party of Greens and the Left Future".

Tomastvivlaren (talk) 22:07, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Because they are not participating. Beshogur (talk) 20:03, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

Merger proposal of 2023 Turkish general election into 2023 Turkish parliamentary election

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Per discussion above. I'm favor of merging 2018 and 2023 general election articles into parliamentary elections. As in French election pages, 3rd article is redunant. And this may confuse readers. Beshogur (talk) 10:05, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm also in favor of it. David O. Johnson (talk) 12:53, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

maybe this article could have its scope changed to the 2023 and 2018 Turkish Elections in the same style as the 2022 United States elections and stuff like that. Though if we cant then I'm okay with merging. Onegreatjoke (talk) 17:07, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

To be honest, I have no clue about US elections. It's confusing for me. In this case, there are two separate elections. A third page can confuse readers. Similar to French elections, there should be two. Number 57 gave examples of general election articles containing both parliamentary and presidential elections, but those have not two separate pages. Beshogur (talk) 17:35, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

Support Makes sense. Completely Random Guy (talk) 20:20, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

Oppose - switches like this have never made sense to me, this is an overview page for both elections with a clearly different purpose to an individual page. Watercheetah99 (talk) 02:45, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Why do we need an "overview" page since those are two separate elections? You can visit each page individually. Beshogur (talk) 15:15, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Comment I'm not entirely sure if the articles on "general election" can be labeled redundant. For example, we have 2020 United States elections which covers both presidential and congressional elections. I'm not sure how the pages on French elections have been set up, but I felt the need to mention that there is a precedent for the format utilized for pages on Turkish elections. At the end, I think it's up to the community to decide which one is better in this case. Keivan.f^Talk 15:13, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm mistaken on that. They're on separate dates. However this shouldn't be a reason for this imo. Two separate pages is ideal. Beshogur (talk) 16:15, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Support- Not sure why the general elections and parliamentary elections articles are separate in the first place. Howareyou8 (talk) 15:33, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Oppose Don’t do that, they are two separate elections and also the % are different on the pages, and it doesn’t mention the second roundz Tay678910 (talk) 23:04, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

What? That's what I'm saying. This was a third page. Beshogur (talk) 23:59, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Remark. The title of any combined page should be 2023 Turkish general election(s); the presidential election is manifestly not a parliamentary election, and vice versa. Docentation (talk) 18:12, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Turkish "general" elections are actually parliamentary elections. That's what it's about. That's how it called in Turkey genel seçimleri. Beshogur (talk) 06:56, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

oppose per (2022 French legislative election and 2022 French presidential election) examples. --Randaw (talk) 12:32, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose per Nigeria and US.

Panam2014 (talk) 12:44, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

2023 Nigerian general election is smaller than 2023 Turkish parliamentary election alone. Not a prominent one. US elections are completely different system. Do you have an example where we have three different pages for two elections? Beshogur (talk) 14:44, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Can you elaborate? Beshogur (talk) 14:44, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

We could delete redundant information from this article. Panam2014 (talk) 15:21, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

I moved the 2018 and 2023 pages per these reasons:

• Nigeria example uses one single page, despite having two elections. Here we have three
• US have multiple elections the same time
• An user gave French elections example, however these are separate like these two elections should be (although they're on separate days)

My proposal is, redirecting all general election articles to parliamentary election ones. + If there is any 2018+2023 "general election" category, template, etc. moving them to "2018/2023 Turkish elections". This is so confusing for many foreign readers. Some wikipedias have linked general election article to their version, while others linked parliamentary election. All those should be linked to one article. Beshogur (talk) 15:22, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Support an overview page here is redundant, with info perfectly well established in the two main articles. I don't believe the US election pages should be used as a basis for keeping this as that involves so many more elections (hundreds of local and state-level elections on top of the national ones). I would also note that some editors above seem to be confused as well as to what is being proposed. Yeoutie (talk) 15:22, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Oppose I prefer it to be the reverse. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 18:45, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

What do you mean? Beshogur (talk) 23:14, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Oppose Cutlerys (talk) 13:43, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 16 May 2023

Per [5], the percentage of Erdoğan is 49.51%, while the percentage of Kılıçdaroğlu is 44.88% 219.78.190.146 (talk) 06:54, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Is the difference in ±0.01% really important? USS Cola!rado🇺🇸 (C⭐T) 10:49, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

How much did CHP really increase?

The figure for CHP seats includes seats allotted to DEVA, Democrat, Felicity, Future, and Felicity parties. 2601:2C6:4300:B8C0:FC35:AA58:9EB7:FF7E (talk) 04:14, 25 May 2023 (UTC)