Talk:2008–09 Serbian SuperLiga

"Top scorers" section

The current layout of the top scorers section is currently not in line with Wikipedia's Manual of Style, as it violates WP:TABLE since this is a very easy table. I suggest to replace it with a list structure similar to the ones in the Bundesliga or Serie A articles.

Further, I would suggest to keep this list limited to the top 15 goalscorers only, as nearly every player on a professional level might be able to score here and then. However, if the community wants to keep the whole list, it should be renamed "Scorers" as the current title is misleading.

Finally: Add a source for the scorers! Hockey-holic (talk) 19:20, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree, the section should definitely be shorter. In almost every league the list is much shorter and easier to maintain. SonjiCeli (talk) 20:26, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

How about creating List of Serbian Superliga 2008–09 scorers where a detailed list would be located while here we keep only top 10 or so. Zvonko (talk) 14:46, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

This list would be faster deleted by WP:Football members than a lightning could strike, as it's not important enough at all. However, you may take your idea/request to the discussion page of said project. Hockey-holic (talk) 15:31, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

I neither have the time nor the energy required to deal with those geniuses. So, if the separate list isn't to your liking why not have every single scorer mentioned. 2008-09 edition of Serbian Superliga is pretty much the most goal-challenged European football competition anyway. Zvonko (talk) 16:44, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm not the only one who dislikes separate scorers-in-a-season lists, as this AfD discussion shows. However, if you want to desperately keep every single scorer on the page, make sure that a) the stuff is not formatted in a table at least, b) the section is renamed and c) all scorers are properly sourced. An easy-to-maintain list format, probably similar to the sections in the article on Norway or the Netherlands would be preferred. Hockey-holic (talk) 20:15, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Factual accurarcy of goalscorer section, April 2009

Dear Serbian "goalscorers" contributors,

after your recent edit war over tiny details I had a closer look at the whole "Goalscorers" section. Result: No source was cited, a violation of the verifiability policy. After that, I first checked if the current league table was fully correct. This was the case, so I then summed up the goals from the table and compared that number against the sum of goals credited in the "Goalscorers" section. Result: Table 307, Goalscorer section 304.

To cut a long story short - either you come up with a reliable source for the whole list (and, of course, correct the list) within four full days from now (19:22, 12 April 2009 (UTC)), or the section content which is not verifiable will be removed per the respective policy. --Soccer-holic^{I hear voices in my head...} 19:22, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Relegation Playoff

If the relegation playoff team wins the 2 legged playoff against the winner of the 3rd-6th place team in the lower division, do they stay in the top division? – Michael (talk) 02:00, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, they do. --Soccer-holic (talk) 11:51, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

List of foreign players that have played in the FR Yugoslavia, Serbia-Montenegro and Serbian First League.

I wanted to see if there was any interess in making this kind of list becouse it exists in a big number of leagues, from the Spanish Primera Division to the first leagues of Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraine, even Singapore, Hong-Kong or Malta have them, and it could be interesting to be the first to make this page from the countries of former Yugoslavia. It is not a long list, but the foreign players that have played in serbian clubs, specially in the Belgrade big two, are interesting and this list will always be getting bigger in the next years. Similar list exists in the Superliga section Notable Players, but I haven´t see this kind of section in other leagues pages, but a much more precise Current and All-Time foreign players, like in romanian case. The discusions that I see that may start if we agree some day to make this two lists are in both cases related to the All-Time list. The first discusion is what periods we should include: Serbian Superliga, Serbia-Montenegro first league, FR Yugoslavia first league, SFR Yugoslavia first league and Kingdom of Yugoslavia first league. The second is about like, if we decide to include in the list, for exemple, the first leagues since the break up of SFR Yugoslavia if we should exclude the players that have played for non-Serbian clubs, in this case only the Montenegrin clubs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by FkpCascais (talk • contribs) 19:13, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Seems like good idea to me, so I would just say go for it. IF you want to get more of an idea on what other editors of football related articles here might think, you can post question there Wikipedia:WikiProject_Football ... // laughing man 05:04, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I´m still serching for platers (olready have about 200 internationals from exYuga and about 140 "real" foreigners. My sources nave been Trasfermarkt, Weltfussbal and NationalFootballTeams sites. Can you give me some better sources? FkpCascais (talk) 04:48, 4 April 2009 (UTC)FkpCascais

Goalscorers

Socer-Holic, give it a rest. Your primary concern should be improving the article, not cutting it up over ridiculous bureaucracy. Did you somehow think this list magically came to somebody in their dream? If you bothered to look in the history you would have noticed that it's been updated week after week since August 2008 as the fixtures were played, so obviously nobody pulled this info out of their ass.

The link I provided contains match reports of every Superliga 2008-09 match from week 1 to week 26, and, yes, it includes all the goalscorers. Happy now, robot? Zvonko (talk) 02:37, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the entire list since it exists in other liga´s and shows the scoring players in the league. It´s also "hidden" so it only appears if somebody really wants to see it. Just put the source, chek if it is allways actualised and exact and wan´t be a problem.

Alo ljudi, pomozite mi za listu stranaca u Srbiji,gde ima spiskovi igraca? FkpCascais (talk) 05:04, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Zvonko, aside from the fact that there is no need to become insultive here, I don't think that you've understood why I have removed the entire list. Let me explain it to avoid further differences.

It is true that several other season articles (Belgium, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Lithuania, Eredivisie 2008–09 and Norway, to be exact) have such a list. There is nothing to say against that. However, all of those articles cite at least one source where a complete list of all scorers is given. The reasons for that are a) the elimination of any possible errors which can occur when adding the goals by hand and b) verifiability.

Because of that, extracting the scorers from single match sheets and summarizing them in order to get a complete list is not allowed. There was a similar argument last summer on the goals from the UEFA Cup qualifying rounds. Those were also not given as a list by UEFA or anybody else. So the existing list, which was made up from the single match reports, was eventually classified as original research and dropped from the article. This is exactly what was done on this article as well, and this is why I removed that list.

Again, if somebody can come up with a reliable and independent source for the whole list, it is perfectly good to stay. After all, the threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. But if an item cannot be properly verified without much effort, it should not be included, and since the [official source] is not helpful in providing a usable scorer list at all, we are stuck with the next best alternative. --Soccer-holic^{I hear voices in my head...} 09:39, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Again, about goalscorers section

I just think that having mentioned the players that already left was a good idea. This way it looks like they continue in Superliga but not scoring... The * on the player and the list with the transfered players from the list was not bad. FkpCascais (talk) 21:49, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

As much as I like the proposal (if properly executed and sourced) – how about clearing the old issues first? As of today, there is still a difference of three goals between the standings and the list; further, the list as a whole is still not fully sourced and thus still violating WP:V (and no, linking to single match reports is not valid). But I better hold my tongue, I will be getting hammered by the anarchists in here anyways... --Soccer-holic^{I hear voices in my head...} 23:02, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Holy mackerel, I completely forgot about that awarded match - which would explain the three-goal difference. SORRY!!! Nevertheless, the other point still stands.

By the way, are there lists of Serbian transfers similar to the English lists? If so, I would just add a note to the respective players and point to the respective lists at the bottom of the scorers section... --Soccer-holic^{I hear voices in my head...} 14:28, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

No, there are no transfers lists, and now may be too late to do the one from winter transfers. I think you are confusing me with someone else. I didn´t done or edited the top-scorers list, I´m just giving ideas... Well, if nobody does it I´ll try to do the transfers lists for Serbia, but only from summer time on. Cheers. FkpCascais (talk) 15:51, 5 May 2009 (UTC)