Talk:14th Street–Union Square station

copyvio?

Well it looks like much of the content of this page was taken from http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/stations?5:3098 . This is probably a copyright violation unless the content was added by the site owner... Asacarny 02:22, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:163rd Street–Amsterdam Avenue (IND Eighth Avenue Line) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 17:31, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Proposed projects

@Epicgenius: There is more to be added on the Union Square Partnership's proposed work (https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-citys-union-square-park-to-grow-under-100-million-plan-11610974800), and the MTA's studying of moving the platforms to eliminate the curves (https://archive.org/details/irt-capacity-study-final-reportt-redacted). Outstanding work on this article. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 14:09, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

@Kew Gardens 613, thanks. I appreciate it. I was aware of the Union Square Partnership's proposal for Union Square but was not aware that the proposal also included improvements to the subway station. And I definitely didn't know about the study. These are great finds; I'll add these in now. – Epicgenius (talk) 14:16, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

It really has been impressive. Yeah-that was my all-time best FOIL request. Thanks-I will try to help more on subway articles when my semester is done, which is soon. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 14:21, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

I am not sure whether this article on a mistake that widened the gap further is worth mentioning. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 14:43, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

That is interesting. My take is that, if this problem persisted for a while, then it could be mentioned. If it was rectified shortly afterward, then it was probably a simple mistake that occurred during routine track repairs, so it would fall under WP:NOTNEWS – Epicgenius (talk) 14:46, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:14th Street–Union Square station/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 02:15, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

To begin review.--ZKang123 (talk) 02:15, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Early spot checks

• Images are generally free-use or in public domain
• I might consider editing the Lexington Avenue Line image infobox to remove that arm and straighten out.
• Earwig shows some repeated common phrasings. Might suggest rewording the following to avoid close paraphrasing:
  • "called for the construction of a subway"
  • "chief engineer of the Rapid Transit Commission" -> maybe Rapid Transit Commission's chief engineer William Barclay Parsons?
    • I have rephrased "chief engineer of the Rapid Transit Commission"; however, it's a job title and proper name, and there are a limited number of ways to rephrase that. I've rephrased "called for the construction of a subway", which is entirely coincidental. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Alright ZKang123 (talk) 07:57, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

That's all for early checks.--ZKang123 (talk) 00:23, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Early prose comments

• "Numerous elevators make most of the complex compliant with the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (ADA). The Lexington Avenue Line station, serving the 4, ​5, ​6, and <6> trains, is not ADA-accessible." -> "Most of the complex, with the exception of the Lexington Avenue Liens station, is accessible via numerous elevators under the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (ADA)."
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "but later became 525 feet (160 m) long." -> "but later lengthened..."
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

More to come.--ZKang123 (talk) 14:01, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

History

• "As part of a modification to the IRT's construction contracts, made on January 18, 1910" – remove comma between contracts and made.
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "In 1918, the Lexington Avenue Line opened north of Grand Central–42nd Street, thereby dividing the original line into an "H"-shaped system." – I'm trying to understand what the H-shaped system mean.
  • Basically, there used to be a single subway line, which ran on the East Side of Manhattan south of 42nd Street, traveled west under 42nd Street, then ran on the West Side of Manhattan north of 42nd Street. The West Side Line (now IRT Broadway–Seventh Avenue Line) was extended south of 42nd Street, and the East Side Line (now Lexington Avenue Line) was extended north of 42nd Street. This created an "H"-shaped system, as can be seen in this diagram. However, all of this is already explained in other articles, so I've briefly reworded this sentence. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "The section between 16th and 26th Streets was awarded to the E. E. Smith Construction Company in September 1913." – was it said how much the contract was awarded to?
  • I've added a source with the amount. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "demolished as part of the construction" – "demolished for the construction"
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "was substantially complete" – substantially felt unnecessary. "near completion" might sound better.
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• $2.528 million – also state the inflated value.
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• Rename "1920s and 1930s changes" subsection to "1920s and 1930s modifications"
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "The renovation was nearly completed by mid-1931." – Is there a subsequent statement when it was actually completed?
  • Sadly, I could not find an exact date for this one. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "The city government took over the BMT's operations on June 1, 1940,[81][82] and the IRT's operations on June 12, 1940." – remove the year for the subsequent clause.
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "improving service" – shouldn't it be services?
  • In this context, "service" is an uncountable noun. Technically, the New York City Club wanted to improve service (i.e. frequency and reliability) on each of the services (i.e. routes). Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "The BOT studied the feasibility of building an underpass from the station to the eastern side of Union Square East at 15th Street in January 1949," – I guess nothing came out of these plans?
  • Nope, the underpass wasn't built. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "There were efforts" – Efforts were made
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "The MTA evicted 25 businesses, who occupied a combined 8,000 square feet (740 m2), from the station in 1981." – why? I guess to free up space? Also where were these business operating? Within the station or around?
  • Yes, it was to free up space in the mezzanine for pedestrians Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "William Zeckendorf, developer of the adjacent Zeckendorf Towers, agreed in 1984" – I guess at this time the towers were being built over the station and not yet constructed?
  • That is correct Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "In the late 1980s, the 14th Street–Union Square station was partially renovated as part of the construction of Zeckendorf Towers."
  • Reword to "As part of the construction of Zeckendorf Towers in the late 1980s, the station was partially renovated." I felt moving the clause of the construction earlier would connect better to the preceding passage.
    • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "five riders" – five passengers
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "He was running at 40 mph (64 km/h) in a 10 mph (16 km/h) zone and took the switch so fast that only the first car made it through the crossover, and the rest of the train was derailed."
  • Something about this sentence is a bit unencyclopedic in tone.
  • Maybe "He oversped in a 10 mph (16 km/h) zone at 40 mph (64 km/h), switching tracks at a fast speed which resulted in only the first car passing through the crossover; the rest of the train derailed". Or simplify the sentence overall.
  • I've shortened the sentence. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "The derailment occurred at the entry to a former pocket track on the Lexington Avenue Line station, which was removed when the damage from the 1991 wreck was repaired."
  • I recommend shifting this sentence early on to be the second sentence of this paragraph.
  • Also reword "which was removed during repair works"
    • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "$2,993,948." – I'm tempted to suggest rounding to "$2.993 million" and not providing an exact value.
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "As part of the contract, the consultant investigated whether it was feasible to reconfigure the IRT passageway, to reframe the exit structure on the Lexington Avenue platforms to accommodate the relocation and widening of stairs, the construction of a new fan room, the removal of stairs on the Broadway Line platforms, the reframing of the existing structure, and the construction of a new staircase between the intermediate and IRT mezzanines. These were all deemed feasible,"
  • I find it a bit repetitive on the word "feasible" and thought of rewording the information. "The proposed works for the renovation – which included [works] – were accessed to be feasible (by whom and when). In May 1994..."
  • Feel free to reword otherwise.
    • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "containing an elevator entrance." – "that includes elevator access"
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "was displaced during the renovation." – just go with relocated
  • Done (the greenmarket was moved back afterward, though). Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
    • Temporarily relocated then. ZKang123 (talk) 02:56, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
• "even though the stair would have relieved congestion." – "even though it would have"
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "and increased the amount of public space in the station" – "and expanded the station's public space"
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• the 2015–2019 MTA Capital Program – curious, is the year necessary?
  • Yes, as the MTA publishes a new capital program every five years. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "with an escalator and an elevator." – with escalator and elevator access.
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

More to come.--ZKang123 (talk) 05:36, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Station layout

• "Along the mezzanine and adjacent passageways, the tops of the walls contain friezes made of raised geometric patterns on the rectangular tiles"
  • Reword to: "Lined at the top of the mezzanine walls were friezes in raised geometric patterns on the rectangular tiles
  • Mezzanine might also already implied including the adjacent passageways
    • I've reworded this, but I left the mention of the passageway in the article. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "The IRT mezzanine contains two overpasses, connecting" -> "The two overpasses of the IRT mezzanine connect..."
  • I've reworded this. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "The area near the Zeckendorf Towers contains storefronts, as well as steel and glass enclosures." -> "Storefronts, alongside steel and glass enclosures, are located in the area near the Zeckendorf Towers"
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "The corridor above the western side of the IRT station contains six wall segments, which were originally part of a double-height wall adjacent to the IRT station's southbound local platform.[132] The wall segments are part of a larger, station-wide art installation by Mary Miss, Framing Union Square, which was commissioned as part of the MTA Arts & Design program."
  • Reword: Framing Union Square by Mary Miss is a station-wide art installation commissioned as part of the MTA Arts & Design program. It features six wall segments placed above the western side of the IRT station, which were originally part of a double-height wall adjacent to the IRT station's southbound local platform.
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• " The artwork also contains bright red frames that surround objects such as mosaics, cables, and bolts." -> "Bright red frames of the artwork surround objects such as mosaics, cables, and bolts
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "The station contains numerous entrances and exits." - The station is accessible via numerous entrances and exits
  • This can be confusing (as people think of wheelchair accessibility when "accessible" is used in NYC Subway-related contexts). I've rephrased this. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "Near the southeast end of the station, there is an entrance with one stair, escalator bank, and elevator in the Zeckendorf Towers at the northeast corner of 4th Avenue and 14th Street."
  • Reword to: "An entrance with a flight of stairs, escalator bank and elevator connects the Zeckendorf Towers at the northeast corner of 4th Avenue and 14th Street to the southeast end of the station"
    • I've rephrased this. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
• "One block to the west, there are two staircases on the south side of 14th Street between Broadway and University Place, which lead to the western Canarsie Line mezzanine."
  • Reword to: One block to the west, two staircases on the south side of 14th Street between Broadway and University Place lead to the western Canarsie Line mezzanine
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

More to come. I might suggest rephrasing other sentences with "contain" and "there".--ZKang123 (talk) 12:28, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments ZKang123. I've addressed these now and await any other feedback you may have. Epicgenius (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

IRT Lexington Avenue Line platforms

• I personally felt there could be a better higher resolution and more recent shot for the infobox image (unfortunately found nothing in the Wikimedia commons category. I tilted and cropped the original image, but I think there can be a better shot.
• What is the difference between an express and a local stop? Not something to clarify in the body, but I just want to know. I assume the 4 and 5 are the express service stopping here, but the 6 is local service of the line?
  • You're correct, the 6 is the local service. I also talked about this on Discord, but express stops serve both express and local trains, whereas local stops only serve local trains. Local services make all stops on the line (both local and express), but express services only serve the express stops and skip the local stops. Epicgenius (talk) 17:00, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
• "The next station to the north" -> "The next station north". Similarly for the subsequent sentence. Or "The next station northbound"
  • Also, you can probably combine these two sentences.
  • Done both. Epicgenius (talk) 17:00, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
• "as at" -> "like the"
  • I will fix this soon. This wording is used in multiple articles, so it will need to be fixed in these pages as well. Epicgenius (talk) 17:00, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
• "there are no elevators leading down" -> "no elevators lead down"
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 17:00, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
• ""U"-shaped trough that contains utility pipes and wires." -> ""U"-shaped trough of utility pipes and wires."
  • The trough is made of something else (I think brick), which encases the utility pipes and wires. The pipes and wires are not themselves the material that was used to construct the trough. Epicgenius (talk) 17:00, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
• "has a foundation" -> "is a foundation"
  • The bottom of the trough also contains the track bed, not just the foundation. Epicgenius (talk) 17:00, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
• "either platform, between" -> Remove comma
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 17:00, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

BMT Broadway Line platforms

• "The next station to the north" – Similar to comment in Lexington Avenue Line
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 17:00, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
• The island platforms were originally 530 feet (160 m) long, but as a result of an extension in the early 1970s, became 615 feet (187 m) long.
  • Reword to: The island platforms were originally 530 feet (160 m) long but lengthened to 615 feet (187 m) after extension works in the early 1970s.
    • I changed this to "The island platforms were originally 530 feet (160 m) long but were extended to 615 feet (187 m) in the early 1970s", as I think "lengthened" and "extension works" might be redundant with each other. Epicgenius (talk) 17:00, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
• [96][4]: 5  – swap over
  • Done. Epicgenius (talk) 17:00, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
• "The tunnel is covered by a "U"-shaped trough that contains utility pipes and wires." – Similar comment as previous section
  • Please see my comment above. Epicgenius (talk) 17:00, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
• "The junction of Broadway and Bowery Road, 1828" – shouldn't the work title be italicised?
  • Yeah. Epicgenius (talk) 17:00, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

BMT Canarsie Line platform

• File:Union Sq new escalator vc.jpg – Felt it could be shifted earlier elsewhere in the article (maybe the history section) instead of the picture being awkward in that gap
• "There are also two stairs leading directly" – two stairs lead directly
  • I've reworded this. Epicgenius (talk) 17:00, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
• Personally felt there can be a better infobox image. It's pretty tilted
  • I added a new pic. Epicgenius (talk) 17:00, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Ridership

• in 1925, shortly after the Canarsie Line platform opened. – Remove comma, also reword "shortly after the opening of the Canarsie Line platform"
• 22.702 million – I assume annual and not daily
• "it was still the system's fourth most-used station." – "it remained as the system's..."
  • Fixed all of these. Epicgenius (talk) 17:00, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Overall, the article is quite in good shape. Putting article on hold while other issues are addressed.--ZKang123 (talk) 02:54, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton (talk) 21:07, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that the New York City Subway's 14th Street–Union Square station was once called "probably the world's greatest underground traffic point"? Source: "General News: Union Square's Underground Traffic". Women's Wear. Vol. 15, no. 144. December 21, 1917. p. 36.
  • ALT1: ... that a planned staircase to the 14th Street–Union Square station was canceled because a New York City agency refused to remove one tree? Source: Fried, Joseph P. (February 3, 2000). "Untangling Knots in the Subway; Architect's Challenge Is to Make DeKalb Station Flow". The New York Times.
  • ALT1A: ... that after a planned staircase to the 14th Street–Union Square station was canceled, its architect accused New York City's parks department of refusing to remove one tree? Source: Fried, Joseph P. (February 3, 2000). "Untangling Knots in the Subway; Architect's Challenge Is to Make DeKalb Station Flow". The New York Times.
  • ALT2: ... that Post-it notes were placed on the walls of the New York City Subway's 14th Street–Union Square station after the 2016 U.S. presidential election? Source: Rosenberg, Eli (December 17, 2016). "Sticky Notes Bearing Election Hopes and Fears Removed from Subway". The New York Times.
  • ALT3: ... that when the New York City Subway's 14th Street–Union Square station was built, the park above it was raised? Source: "New York MPS 14th Street-Union Square Subway Station (IRT; Dual System BMT)". Records of the National Park Service, 1785–2006, Series: National Register of Historic Places and National Historic Landmarks Program Records, 2013–2017, Box: National Register of Historic Places and National Historic Landmarks Program Records: New York, ID: 75313911. National Archives. pp. 4, 6.
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/WFXR
  • Comment: More hooks later

Improved to Good Article status by Epicgenius (talk). Self-nominated at 14:33, 17 August 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/14th Street–Union Square station; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: @Epicgenius: Good article. To be honest, I only really like alt1 but the others are fine I guess. Onegreatjoke (talk) 21:51, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

• @Epicgenius, Onegreatjoke, and Bruxton: the hook is really hooky, but I am concerned about NPOV. The article says The MTA also canceled plans for a new subway entrance in Union Square Park because the New York City Department of Parks and Recreation refused to remove one tree to make way for the entrance, but the NYT source says that the architect said that the entrance was cancelled to save one tree, while the parks commissioner said the entrance was expensive and unsuitable and involved destroying three trees. I think that the article should give both sides and a different hook is needed. TSventon (talk) 17:04, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the catch @TSventon. I have fixed the article and think we should reopen the DYK nom so I can propose another hook. – Epicgenius (talk) 17:27, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

nomination reopened. TSventon (talk) 18:28, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

I think the other hooks are fine enough to approve. Onegreatjoke (talk) 20:54, 27 August 2023 (UTC)