Module talk:Adjacent stations/GO Transit

Default GO Green

Hey, so wanted to raise this as there seems to be conflicting colours. The previous one in the template,   4A7729, was what I implemented in the days following the change from the original   00AB66, to the two tone scheme. It seems with the website refresh, the colour has changed again, but I'm also seeing two different colours. There's what Blaixx implemented,   256C2F, which is on GO's homepage and system map. I have also found   1F6C2E from the logo in GO's printable PDF timetables,   1D6C37 from this GO fact sheet. We could debate on which one to use, but page C-4 of the latest GO Design Requirements Manual (amendment record) identifies the GO colour as "Pantone 364C", which translates to 74, 119, 41 in RGB and   4A7729 in hex (the original I implemented). I'm of the opinion that we should be going off of this official design manual, it's the most official source out of all of them, but wanted to discuss first before reverting. --Natural R_X 16:34, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

This has been hashed out before for Transport for London colours. The consensus was that the Design Manual is the definitive source. Useddenim (talk) 20:47, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

As per my comment below, the TfL discussion did not deal with pantone colours and their implications. I believe that GO's homepage is the most official source that provides actual RGB values for use on the web. BLAIXX 23:57, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this up for discussion and for linking GO's design manual. You bring up some good points but I don't think we should use that Pantone value here. Pantone values in general are only used for print specifications and in the context of the design manual it seems to be applied specifically to signage and not universally. It also seems to me that Pantone to RGB conversion is only approximate and should not be considered official. My second point is that GO's style guide was last updated in February 2017, where as GO's current website c. 2018 is the most recent publication so perhaps that carries more weight. BLAIXX 23:57, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

You have a point about the Pantone, I didn't realize the variations. A good equivalent example is the Flag of Canada, which identifies Pantone 285 as the official red colour, and that is 218, 41, 28 in RGB or   DA291C in hex. But when you display it in print, it also says the colour is actually 255, 0, 0 in RGB or   FF0000 in hex. So I tried to find some equivalent differing spec in the DRM, no luck. What I did find on page 17 of the static signage manual was that Pantone 364C is still described as the primary dark green, but when you convert it as it's displayed digitally in the PDF, it works out to 0, 125, 29 in RGB and   007d1d in hex. So I don't know if you guys would consider that as "official", but it's the best official source I can find. That manual is also circa March 2018. --Natural R_X 14:43, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

I still have issue with that document describing colours used in physical signage and not general purpose branding. Additionally I don't know if I consider that digital representation in the document to be official as it may have only be intended to be a rough visual to what the Pantone value is. In addition, I think the most important consideration for choosing colours for this template is how recognizable and familiar it is (not necessarily how official it is). I personally think the shade used on gotransit.com is the most familiar while also being deliberately used by Metrolinx. BLAIXX 22:06, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

But I would think that "a rough visual to what the Pantone value is" is what we're going for, the rough visual of the colour that is on signage and vehicles. We're not trying to mock the website, which may have colour choices that are optimized for all of the pages and elements of the site. As for what's "most familiar", we are debating slight shades of green now, aren't we? I was hoping to agree on the shade that says it is the official colour, but is displayed digitally, and is a bit brighter than a colour we grabbed from the website, and has multiple variations. --Natural R_X 20:34, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Web greens
37,108,47	Website	256C2F
31,108,46	Timetable	1F6C2E
29,108,55	Fact sheet	1D6C37
Signage greens
00,125,29	Signage manual	007d1d
00,125,29	Kitchener*	00853f

In your top comment, you noted that GO is inconsistent with the shade that it uses it uses on the web (site and PDFs). Looking at the values though, the 3 are all very nearly identical to each other while being distinct from the value from the signage manual (I would also argue that there is a much greater variation of colours used on signs and vehicles). Due to the fact that colours are interpreted differently on screens and in print, I have a preference for Wikipedia to follow the colours that GO uses for screens. –BLAIXX 19:58, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

I think you make a decent argument, but I still disagree on principle based on my most recent comment above. I believe we should be leaning on a publication referring to the colour used for the article subject in the real world (i.e. the official colour of GO as displayed on signage and vehicles) as opposed to website colour choices. I would counterargue that any perceived variation of colours used on signs and vehicles is due to lighting and adjustments made to photographs, rather than a physical difference. It sounds like we need an RfC to resolve this one. --Natural R_X 17:53, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

An editor (not me) has requested a WP:Third opinion at Wikipedia:Third_opinion#Active_disagreements. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 21:06, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

^ This was me. Figured we'd try this before opting for an RfC for such a (relatively) small issue. --Natural R_X 21:39, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

3O Response: I noticed that the green used for the Kitchener D-line   (*which I've added to the comparison table) is relatively close to the signage green. The low difference in contrast between these could present an accessibility issue if the two need to be compared (see MOS:COLOUR and Wikipedia:Colour contrast). I believe that it's more important here that colour be used as a tool to convey information [rather] than to accurately represent the real world, and to be useable there should be sufficient colour contrast. That would mean using one of the darker "web greens". Also, if we're to use one of Go Transit's colours, it seems to make sense to use the colour they choose for screens/websites. For these reasons I would tend to go with the website green. This is a non-binding third opinion, but I hope it helps! – Reidgreg (talk) 16:45, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

@Blaixx: Huh, my apologies, I didn't realize I was a year late on this. @Natural RX: I'd go with the Pantone 364C, but google and a few websites define it as 4a7729. I'm not quite sure how you got 007d1d. Cards84664 18:49, 8 March 2020 (UTC)