User talk:Marshelec/Archive 4

Meeting other Wikimedians in person

If you'd like to catch up with other Wikimedians in person, there's a WikiCon coming up in Hokitika in March. And a few of us meet monthly in Christchurch; next one in February. Schwede66 22:59, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

@Schwede66: Yes, I saw that. Thanks, I would love to come, and I am sure it would be a great opportunity. However, unless I can get someone to cover for me (which seems unlikely at this stage) I am already committed to being the Track Starter for our Wellington Children's Athletics Junior Champs that weekend.Marshelec (talk) 23:11, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Dang. I've got a bit of a clash myself; am attending a conference in Dunedin until Friday afternoon. Then again, the Friday start date is nominal; it's a get together in the evening what is being talked about. It'll kick off in earnest on Saturday. Hope you can find somebody who can cover for you. Schwede66 23:14, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

@Schwede66: Kia ora. I have managed to find someone to cover my role as Track Starter at the Wellington Junior Athletics Champs on Saturday 21 March. Yay ! This means my wife and I can plan a West Coast holiday, including time in Hokitika for the WikiCon. I will make some travel plans this coming week, and will complete a registration once the requirements are published.Marshelec (talk) 22:58, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

That's excellent! Ping to Mike for his info. I look forward to meeting you and so many others in Hokitika. Schwede66 03:34, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Expanding article about Hamish Carson

@Schwede66: Hi, I am interested in expanding the stub article about Hamish Carson. However, I have some reservations, and seek your feedback about a couple of questions before I get underway:

• I am a member of Wellington Scottish Athletics Club. Hamish has been a member of this club for many years and I have known Hamish through my own involvement in the club, including through my role as Treasurer. However, it is a large club, and I don't know Hamish closely. Would a reasonable and independent editor consider that I have a conflict of interest here ?. Do you recommend I disclose this, following WP:DISCLOSE ?
• One of the most substantial references about Hamish I have found so far is a news item on the Wellington Scottish Athletics Club website. It is a write up by Grant McLean and published in 2010. See: [1]. My main question here is whether this is an acceptable reference because as an item in a club newsletter, there are aspects of the story that could perhaps be said to be promoting the club.Marshelec (talk) 22:52, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

That's a tricky one. COI is, of course, to some extent a matter of judgement. Does Hamish know you by name when you meet? If yes, that's a strong indicator that COI exists. I'm somewhat less worried about your membership of the Scottish Athletics Club with regards to the source that you cite. There will be an element of the writer making the club look good, but that bias does not have to flow through to any bio content. So, how to proceed? I shall ping Gadfium for another opinion on the matter, but here's what I'm thinking:

• Write the article in draft space as a new one. I suggest you copy the article as it is, with attribution (e.g. "copy of Hamish Carson article for expansion in draft space")
• When done, an admin can move it over the existing article and do a history merge.
• Someone other than you can then copy-edit the article to ascertain it's NPOV.
• We'll document what we've done on the article's talk page.
• Further amendments that you may wish to see get done via suggested edits on the talk page.

That way, we achieve an article that is neutral and don't run the risk of it getting tagged for COI editing. What do you think? Schwede66 21:01, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

@Schwede66: Thanks. Hamish definitely knows me by name, and greets me when we meet (albeit that this is infrequent). I will follow the course of action you have suggested, because I have a conflict of interest.Marshelec (talk) 21:42, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Schwede66 has a stronger interpretation of COI than I do. I wouldn't say that knowing your name makes for COI, but if you considered him a friend, or you had any financial ties with him, then you probably would have a conflict. I'm more concerned with whether an article on a club website/newsletter is a reliable source. It is credited to an author (who is not the subject), which is a good start, but has there been any fact-checking done by the newsletter editors? I would use such a source only for non-controversial information, and if anyone challenges material in the article in good faith, you may need to find a better reference or drop the challenged material. On the other hand, the reality is that most newspaper articles on local people are fillers taken from an interview with the subject and not verified independently, and we accept such newspapers as reliable sources.-gadfium 03:08, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

@Schwede66: Hi, you may recall that I have a conflict of interest with respect to writing about Hamish Carson because Hamish is a member of my athletics club. I have prepared a draft Draft:Hamish Carson by copying the existing article and expanding it, as you suggested. Over the past few months, I have held off on further improvements to the draft article. I was waiting to see if Hamish reached the qualifying standard for the Tokyo Olympics. However, although he has achieved some good performances in Europe recently, he has not met the qualifying standard. I therefore think that I might as well offer the expanded draft for review by others, and moving to main space as you proposed. If you agree, what happens from here ? Marshelec (talk) 03:48, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

I've moved it into mainspace (without leaving a redirect) and done a bit of a tidy-up. Maybe post on the Facebook group and invite others to check the article for NPOV; personally I think it's fine. Could I ask you, as per the above, that you post on the article's talk page about what we've done? If any of the finer details need recording, too, I can add to it. Schwede66 05:59, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

New article about Ward Beach

Hi @Lcmortensen:, I have created a new article about Ward Beach. You may perhaps have some knowledge of this part of the Marlborough coast, so I thought you might like to review it for me, and give it an assessment. Many thanks Marshelec (talk) 04:47, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Brilliant photos. Great article. Thanks. MargaretRDonald (talk) 05:43, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

@MargaretRDonald:. Thanks for the feedback - most appreciated. My wife and I visited Ward Beach recently on the recommendation of a friend, while we were on holiday in the South Island. We were fascinated by what we saw, and together with the environmental issues and controversy surrounding fishing boat access, I thought it would make for an interesting article. I have submitted a DYK nomination, so if things go well, the hook might just appear on the home page of Wikipedia for 24hrs at some time in the near future :) If I can find more references for Chancet Rocks, I might consider splitting the article, but I will leave it for now. Thanks again for your comments Marshelec (talk) 05:57, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Seconded. Great work! Enjoyed reading the article. Schwede66 21:51, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Wellington 'vandalism'

Hey mate, why did you flag my change of the precipitation in the wellington climate box as vandalism? Using green to denote precipitation is a totally legit thing to do. Furthermore, the wellington airport climate box has green precipitation so I felt that matching them would be great for consistency. Finally decisions in the climate box board have come to a consensus that green is a better colour to use as it differentiates from the blue colour which is associated with cold temperatures in the climate box. Disagreeing with my change is cool, marking it as vandalism isn't. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SexyBlondeGuy (talk • contribs) 15:12, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

I have apologised and reverted my edit. I was mistaken. Marshelec (talk) 04:00, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Possible new category:Birdwatching sites in New Zealand

@Schwede66: Hi ! One of the unusual and special features of New Zealand is its birdlife. On Wikipedia at present there are great articles about New Zealand bird species, and a parent article Birds of New Zealand. However, I was surprised to discover that there is currently no category for Birdwatching sites in New Zealand.

There is a global Category:Birdwatching sites, and this has sub-categories for 21 different countries. The extent of pages linked to these categories varies greatly, with a particularly large number of pages for the UK and USA. However, there is currently no category for Birdwatching sites in New Zealand. Articles about the New Zealand reserves that protect bird life are typically categorised under Category:Wildlife sanctuaries of New Zealand. However, there are pages for some other sites that are well known for birdlife but not categorised in a way that draws attention to birds being a special feature of that place. See for example: Ōkārito_Lagoon. Some of these might not fit the definition of wildlife sanctuary (eg some might include areas where duck shooting is still permitted in season) See also Brooklands Lagoon.

I am aware of existing articles about numerous sites in New Zealand that are known for bird watching, and where the article mentions birds. In principle, I could create and make a good start on populating a new category. On the other hand, for some pages, it may duplicate the existing categorisation of Wildlife sanctuaries.

After posting the initial version of this proposal, I then discovered Category:Important_Bird_Areas_of_New_Zealand. Now I am really confused. This category currently doesn't contain named lagoons, or many Wildlife sanctuaries (although it does include multiple places within National Parks). It appears that the list of pages in this category is related to the bird sites in New Zealand identified as IBA at the international website of Birdlife International: [2]. I note the global category Category:Important Bird Areas by country. This global category has far more countries with sub-categories than the Category:Birdwatching sites.

There may be a case for some rationalisation, and then adding additional pages to the chosen categories. Do you think I should post the idea of rationalisation on the WPNZ project page (or similar), to get further feedback before proceeding ?Marshelec (talk) 03:59, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

The NZ resident expert on categorisation is User:Grutness. Schwede66 08:47, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Erm... am I? Oh, OK... I'd say if there are similar site categories for other countries, and a New Zealand category would be significantly different to the content of wildlife sanctuaries category, then it's a good idea to have a category (some overlap is OK, but you wouldn't simply want duplication). The capitalisation on the Important Bird Areas category does suggest it's only for places recognised by Birdlife International. Perhaps it would make a good subcat of a new Category:Birdwatching sites of New Zealand. As far as the viability of such a new category is concerned, the usual rule of thumb is five articles, and I can think of at least five places off the top of my head that would fit (Okarito Lagoon, Sinclair wetlands, Otago Peninsula, Cape Kidnappers, Lake Ellesmere). Just make sure there is a substantial mention of birdwatching in the articles. Grutness...wha? 09:30, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Herbert Evans - obituary notice

@Schwede66: Hi, here is a link to an image of the obituary notice for Herbert Evans, from The Herald, 29 October 1970 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HDA7A1d6UW-fpCsF44p8IzH2e3ZNHEez/view?usp=sharing It isn't much, but I hope it is still of some use.

Now that I know how to view the filmstrips of old newspapers at the National Library, let me know if there is something else I can help with.Marshelec (talk) 22:56, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

That's excellent. Thank you. I've added some content to the Wikidata entry. Did you by chance take note of the page number? If so, I'd add that detail to Wikidata. The obituary implies that his wife predeceased him. Just to avoid ambiguity; I assume that by The Herald you mean The New Zealand Herald? Schwede66 18:49, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

@Schwede66: Yes, it was The New Zealand Herald, but I didn't note the page number of the Obituary notice, sorry. A lesson for next time. Marshelec (talk) 19:36, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

No trouble. It won't break the 'pedia. Schwede66 20:52, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

@Schwede66: Back at National Library today. The page number for the Herbert Evans obituary notice in the NZ Herald of 29 Oct 1970 is Page 2. On to the other queries now. Marshelec (talk) 23:50, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for all your great efforts. I've processed what you've dug up. Schwede66 03:46, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Ward Beach

On 6 May 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Ward Beach, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that spherical concretions (example pictured) were revealed on Ward Beach as a result of the large uplift of the seabed caused by the 2016 Kaikōura earthquake? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Ward Beach. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Ward Beach), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:01, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

New article about Diedre Irons

Hi @Pakoire: I discovered today that there is currently no Wikipedia article for the distinguished pianist Diedre Irons ONZM. She is Canadian-born and trained, but has been in New Zealand since 1977. Here is a link to a listing in the Canadian Encyclopedia: https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/diedre-irons-emc Here is a link to her with our Governor General at her investiture ceremony: https://gg.govt.nz/images/diedre-irons-wellington-onzm

I am willing to create at least a stub article for her. Can this be incorporated somehow into your Performing Arts project, or is music out of scope for your project ?? If this can be included, what do I need to do ? Marshelec (talk) 08:08, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Go for it. Add yourself to the project page and add her to the spreadsheet. Music is a bit of a cross-over area. Pakoire (talk) 08:34, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

I've made a Wikidata item for you: Diedre Irons (Q106930011) Schwede66 22:19, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

@Schwede66: Thanks, that's great. I have made a start on the article, but I will add more content before moving it into article space. See: Draft:Diedre Irons. By the way, which is the correct order of honorifics ? OBE, then ONZM or the reverse order ? I also might need guidance in getting the article linked to the new Wikidata entry - I haven't done that before Marshelec (talk) 22:33, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

They get listed in descending order of precedence; you'll see the precedence in the infoboxes (e.g. New Zealand Order of Merit). Note she has an MBE. I've found her DOB and will add that to Wikidata; that entry will have a reference and you can use that to reference the birthday in your draft (which I won't edit to not cause an edit conflict). Once you move your draft to mainspace, all you do is that you open the Wikidata entry, click on "edit" in the box where it says 'Wikipedia', enter "en" where it says 'wiki' (for English) and then enter the article name in the field that then becomes available. Click the "publish" link once done and that will have linked WD and WP. As Commons is already linked to WD, that action will also link the WP article to Commons. Schwede66 22:47, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

I suggest you use this template: {{postnominals|country=NZL|ONZM|MBE}} Schwede66 23:20, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

@Schwede66: Thanks for your help so far :). I have moved it to main space now, and given an assessment of Start class. I copied and adapted the talk page banners from the page for Michael Houstoun. See what you think. Marshelec (talk) 08:13, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

@Paora:. Thanks for all the improvements you have already made to the Diedre Irons article. There is still lots for me to learn - particularly about biographies ! Engineering-related topics seem much easier by comparison. :) Marshelec (talk) 08:55, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

New article about Escarpment Track

@Schwede66: Hi, I have created a new article that is in draft space at present: Draft:Escarpment Track. This is ready to be moved into main space, but before I do that, I need advice about a redirect. There is a redirect page that I think needs to be deleted, now that there is a specific article about the Escarpment Track. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Escarpment_Track_(Pukerua_Bay_to_Paekakariki)&redirect=no . Can you sort this out for me please ? I have not worked with redirect pages before. Once that is done, I can move the new article to main space and put a Wikilink into the Pukerua Bay article (and other places if necessary). Many thanks, Marshelec (talk) 04:16, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

No, what you do is to edit the redirect. Move your article into mainspace and then edit the redirect so that it points to the new article. Give it a go; it should be straightforward. If you can't sort it, post here again, please. Schwede66 04:41, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@Schwede66: Thanks, all done, and I have learned something along the way :) Marshelec (talk) 05:02, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Great. I left a message for you on the article's talk page. You can move "without leaving a redirect". If you want to get rid of that redirect that points from draft space to the article, let me know. Schwede66 05:29, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

WikiProject update - Performing Arts Aotearoa

The project is now two weeks in and the profile of the project is building in the performing arts communities. Editors have created seven new articles in Wikipedia and 291 new and improved entries in Wikidata. These have been tagged in Wikidata to the project using the property p5008 ‘on focus list of Wikimedia project’ – ‘Performing Arts Aotearoa New Zealand.’

Thank you if you have made a contribution already, there will also be lots of other ways to contribute over the coming three and a half months.

The current focus is the Wellington based festival Kia Mau [3]. This weekend Saturday 5th June there is a takeover of the Wellington Meetup with an edit-a-thon focus to Wikify the festival. Kia Mau is an established festival based in Wellington celebrating and promoting “contemporary Māori, Pasifika and international Indigenous live performance experience.” For more information look at the Wellington Meetup page or the Kia Mau Wikiproject Worksheet. Over the next few days resources will be shared, including stubs and links to information. Focusing on this festival will start to address the bias in Wikipedia that means there is low content on indigenous people, plus there are many women involved. Which means you can also add them to the Women in Red projects #1day1woman, some would fit onto the year-long campaign: Women's rights, and some into the June focus Wiki Loves Pride.

Increasing content on women and indigenous people is part of the Performing Arts Aotearoa Wikiproject.

Participating in the Kia Mau editing can be in person or remotely. You can start this week, join for an hour or more on the day, and follow up afterwards also. Any improvements to Wikipedia, Wikidata and Wikimedia Commons content will make a difference.

Please let me know if you have any tips or questions to help me help you. If you aren't in a position to contribute right now that's ok too - take care.

Many thanks, Lisa Maule / Pakoire (talk) 22:03, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Expanding article about Bub Bridger

@Schwede66: Hi, I am planning to expand the stub article Bub Bridger, and given that she was an actor as well as a writer, I may include this in the Performing Arts project User:Pakoire/Performing_Arts_Aotearoa_-_Wiki_Project. A question from me is about photo images from investiture ceremonies. I see that Bub Bridger was made MNZM in 2002. I had a quick look but couldn't see where photos from any investiture ceremonies are held. Can you advise if there are photos online from 2002 ceremonies ?? Marshelec (talk) 00:11, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

2002 is too old. The governors general website isn't set up well (to say it charitably) and the way I go about it do a Google search restricted to their site. Looking at the results for images from this is often the fastest way of finding what you are after. Search term for the writer would be Bridger site:gg.govt.nz and what they have is a dog of that name. The writer gets a few mentions in various speeches; no photos that I could spot. I think their photos go back to about 2008. Paora is probably the one who downloads most of the photos from that site; maybe he has other tips. Schwede66 01:15, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, unfortunately there aren't any investiture photos earlier than 2007 on the GG website. Paora (talk) 05:01, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 3

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Otari-Wilton's Bush, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Miro and Matai.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:01, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Fixed. Marshelec (talk) 06:05, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Nomination of Nisha Madhan for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Nisha Madhan is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nisha Madhan until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.

GermanKity (talk) 03:44, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

New article created for Nisha Madhan

@Pakoire: Hi, I thought I would try creating an article for one of the names in the list on your spreadsheet, and picked Nisha Madhan. I have created a stub article Nisha Madhan, but it has immediately been nominated for deletion. Seems like I need more independent sources. Any suggestions ? Marshelec (talk) 04:06, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Oh that's disappointing. I will have a look. Pakoire (talk) 04:24, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Improvements to article about Eve Gordon

@Pakoire: Kia ora, I have gone about as far as I can at the moment with improvements to the article Eve Gordon (New Zealand actress). I have removed the stub template and reclassified as C class. Please have a look and see if you agree. There are lots of reviews of performances by The Dust Palace, but it seems to me that most of them are only marginally useful for this bio article.Marshelec (talk) 23:28, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Good job. It is a way better representation now of her and the available references. Pakoire (talk) 05:21, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Draft article about The PumpHouse Theatre

@Schwede66:. Hi, I need guidance about a few simple points about a draft article: Draft:The PumpHouse Theatre Takapuna. This has been sitting for some time after getting declined in an AFC. Over the past couple of days, I have made significant changes to this draft, as part of the Performing Arts project being run by User:Pakoire. My questions are:

1. do we retain "The" in the article title ? (I think so, but want to check)
2. is it permissible to use the name style adopted by the organisation in the Wikipedia article title; ie The PumpHouse Theatre (with a capital H) ?
3. if I search for Pumphouse theatre in Wikipedia, it appears there are other Pumphouse theatres. What is the preferred approach to article naming ? Options include: The PumpHouse Theatre, Takapuna, The PumpHouse Theatre (New Zealand) etc. Which location attribute is best, and commas or brackets ?
4. I think this draft article is ready to be reconsidered in the AFC process. Is there anything more I should do before pressing the Resubmit button ?

Thanks in advance for your help :) Marshelec (talk) 04:44, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Here's a quick reply.

Re 1, if it's part of the common name, then yes.

Re 2, absolutely. Camel case if fine. See ChristChurch Cathedral.

Re 3, "The PumpHouse Theatre" has not been taken and therefore does not need to be disambiguated. Hatnotes will do, or if there's a few others with similar names, reference could be made to a dab page. We can set up a dab page if there isn't one already but it would be useful to have one (good new skill to learn if that's what's needed!).

Re 4, I don't have time to look right now. But there's never anything wrong with pressing that button if you feel it's ready.

@Schwede66:. Thanks, I decided to push the button but was surprised with the commentary in the response box: "This may take 5 months or more, since drafts are reviewed in no specific order. There are 4,698 pending submissions waiting for review." This backlog and slow response is not satisfactory for most people proposing new articles. What is involved in being a reviewer of AfC ? Perhaps I am getting to the stage where I have enough experience that I might be able to offer to help out.? Marshelec (talk) 06:54, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Well, they'd absolutely love to have you on the team. You are well past the minimum requirements for being able to join. There's a bit of reading to do (read this section and this entire page). Awesome thing to do. They offer lots of help, which is good because you'll come across a lot of stuff where you won't know what to do. I guarantee you that you'll learn a lot. Schwede66 08:08, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

@Pakoire: The article The PumpHouse Theatre Takapuna is now in main article space. See what you think. We could move it to just The PumpHouse Theatre ?? Also, I haven't updated the project tracking spreadsheet yet, because I wasn't sure it fitted exactly with the ones in the Organisation tab. Just let me know and I will sort this out. Marshelec (talk) 21:16, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Great stuff - yes this fits into 'Organisation' I think the name is fine how it it. Thanks you very much for the bits and pieces of things you are doing across areas. Pakoire (talk) 21:09, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: The PumpHouse Theatre Takapuna has been accepted

The PumpHouse Theatre Takapuna, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. Most new articles start out as Stub-Class or Start-Class and then attain higher grades as they develop over time. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

Since you have made at least 10 edits over more than four days, you can now create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for creation if you prefer.

If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk. Once you have made at least 10 edits and had an account for at least four days, you will have the option to create articles yourself without posting a request to Articles for creation.

If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider .

Thanks again, and happy editing!

Hitro talk 07:28, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

New article for Alice Canton

@Pakoire: Hi, this afternoon I have been searching out sufficient additional and independent reliable sources that would enable me to prepare an article about Alice Canton that would meet the notability criteria. I think I am almost there now, so I plan to start work on a draft article in the next couple of days. Please "reserve" this one for me at this stage, thanks. Marshelec (talk) 04:50, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Draft article created for Alice Canton

@Noracrentiss:@Pakoire: Hi, I have created a draft article for Alice Canton see:Draft:Alice Canton. Please have a look at this for me, and see if you can point me to things I could usefully add (or add them yourselves). Let me know if you think this draft is close to being ready for moving into the main article space. Marshelec (talk) 02:14, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi, I've made a few punctuation changes for consistency and added a link to a reference on Asia NZ Foundation's page about Alice's grant from them. Not sure I'm experienced enough to know if the article is ready to go, sorry. Noracrentiss (talk) 02:47, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Some thoughts:

• Meets GNG; you have enough sources.
• I'd have an "Early life" section (YoB and shift ref from ibox to here; born on West Coast [RNZ source]; grew up in Christchurch; parentage; tertiary education [see page 27 of the thesis]).
• You are too sparse with wikilinks.
• Remove spaces between punctuation and references or between references.

I hope this helps. Schwede66 03:10, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

@Schwede66: Thanks, that's useful feedback. I have dealt with those points, although there is a conflict between sources about whether her mother is second or third generation here. I have gone with the version from the MA Thesis at this stage. I will wait for any feedback from User:Pakoire and then hopefully move the draft into main space. Marshelec (talk) 04:39, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

If sources disagree, it is ok to say so. For example: "Sources differ whether it was her mother<ref1> or her grandmother<ref2> who had immigrated from China." If you have reason to believe that one source is more trustworthy than another, you can also record that; I'd deal with it via a footnote: "Her grandmother had immigrated from China.<ref2>{{efn|Footnote 1 explaining this; you can include a reference in this footnote}}" If you use a footnote, you need an additional heading above "References" that is most commonly called "Footnotes", with the following template underneath: {{notelist}} Schwede66 04:50, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks @Marshelec: and others. I would go with the advice from Schwede66 about readiness. I have done some edits too mostly from your sources as you will see - to add an overview of her career in addition to the notable works you have picked out, and some redlinks to notable organisations / venues that will be addressed soon. Publish at your leisure - remember to put Women in Red as well as NZ in the talk page. Pakoire (talk) 08:26, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

You have two sections called "External links". That's supposed to be the last section; you might want to rationalise that. Schwede66 10:05, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Woops - I did that - I will fix it. Thanks for noticing. Pakoire (talk) 21:15, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

@Pakoire: All fixed, and the article is now published in main space. :) Marshelec (talk) 21:17, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Article grading

@Schwede66: Hi, I have seen in some recent notes about quality grading of articles for the Performing Arts project that there was a reference to an ORES scale. I presume this relates to: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/ORES#New_article_evaluation. In a recent example, I see that the article on Circa Theatre has been given GA status. My view is that the article quality is still some way from GA. I am not sure I would even give it B class at this stage, based on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_New_Zealand/Assessment#Quality_scale. What is the status of the ORES gradings and what is the WPNZ stance on quality assessments ? My view is that it is counter-productive to rate an article as GA when it has obvious weaknesses. However, I don't want to make a fuss about this. Your feedback would be helpful.Marshelec (talk) 05:39, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Well, it's not a GA any longer. Please see the edit summary; that should explain it. Personally, I've never used ORES, but that's not to say that it's no good; it simply wasn't around when I started rating articles. Pakoire, this query is the reason I looked at it. Schwede66 06:02, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi Marshelec - apparently ORES is good for stub and start class article's but not good for rating higher quality. So I have learnt to err on the side of caution when re-ranking on the talk page. Unless I have improved from stub to a higher I leave this and someone else comes and does it at some stage. I then re-rank it as Start or maybe C but never GA - although yes I did do that one! A year ago - I am learning. Pakoire (talk) 06:39, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

@Pakoire: Thanks. My view is that a reasonable quality scale objective for most of the articles in the Performing Arts project would be to get them to Class C. My experience with other articles is that it has taken me a lot of effort to get an article to the Class B standard. It seems to me that for most of the topics/articles within the scope of the Performing Arts project, effort is better spent increasing coverage of missing people and organisations, and trying to enhance Stub class articles, than seeking to get articles to a Class B or higher standard. Also, for many of these topics there may be difficulties in finding the sources that you would really want to fully warrant a Class B or higher quality assessment. I will continue to choose Performing Arts topics that I think I can work with, but I will not be aiming for better than Class C, unless you specifically ask. Are you OK with the Alice Canton article as it stands at present, or are there things you are aware of that should be added ? :) Marshelec (talk) 06:55, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Yes - good disucssion - I agree - I have not much experience and I think you are right about the availability of sources. I will take the higher goals out of the project for now. More C class articles would be great and the Alice Canton is great how it is based on my survey of sources available for it. The venues need articles - I was thinking of proposing this as the next focus. Pakoire (talk) 07:30, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Expanding article on Raewyn Hill

@Schwede66: Hi, a fairly simple query (I hope) :). I am intending to expand the existing article Raewyn Hill, as part of the Performing Arts project, including adding inline citations. Hill was born in New Zealand, trained here, and has owned a dance theatre company and choreographed and performed many works in NZ. She has been mostly based in Australia since 2010 as far as I can work out. The short description and the first sentence of the article currently say: "Australian choreographer and dancer", and the article is linked to WP: Australia, not WPNZ. My question is about how to deal with uncertainty about nationality, or when a person appears to be notable in both countries (NZ and Australia in this case). Should I change short descriptions, wording and WP project linkages to show both NZ and Australia ? If so, how best to do this ? Here are a couple of useful references THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF WOMEN & LEADERSHIP IN TWENTIETH-CENTURY AUSTRALIA, and The Arts Foundation Te Tumu To. Any help with these points will be greatly appreciated.Marshelec (talk) 02:29, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

For a start, I've added WPNZ to the talk page. With regards to nationality (not so much in a legal sense), there are a number of ways one could look at that. For a start, she's around 50 and has lived in NZ for around 40 years and the last 10 years in OZ. That makes her more of a New Zealander than an Australian. However, it's also relevant when she gained notability. If that has happened since she moved to Australia, I would describe her as a "New Zealand-born Australian choreographer and dancer". If she may have already been notable while she was still in New Zealand, I would describe her as a "New Zealand choreographer and dancer now active in Australia". Whatever you decided for the lead can inform your wording of the short description, which you should then copy across to Wikidata. Hope that helps. Schwede66 03:35, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:Hamish Carson

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Undertaking a GA review

@Ambrosia10:. Hi, at our recent meeting I discussed possibly offering to undertake my first review of an article nominated for GA. I have gone ahead with this. The article Electricity sector in Turkey was in a backlog and had been waiting for a review for a long time. Note that this is the fourth time that this article has been submitted for GA review. The nominee/main author has created many different articles related to the energy sector in Turkey, and some have already been passed as GA. You may be interested to have a look at the review correspondence so far. Here is a link to the review discussion: Talk:Electricity_sector_in_Turkey/GA4 The nominee has been very responsive to date, so it will be interesting to see where this ends up. Note that I haven't covered all the points in a GA review because I considered the issues with prose and coverage were so significant they needed to be worked on as the highest priority.

I have shared with this editor an example of a GA article in the electricity sector that I think sets a good benchmark for prose and coverage: Hydro-Québec's electricity transmission system. The article under review has some way to go before it could reach that standard. Nevertheless, I hope that this GA review process will prove useful for both of us. Note that I currently plan a major review and update of the equivalent article: Electricity sector in New Zealand, although I am not expecting to get that to the point where I would submit a GA nomination. By the way, great work on the Kererū article. It will soon be ready for GA nomination :) Marshelec (talk) 08:22, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the update @Marshelec) I think you are doing great work. If you would be prepared to take the Wellington Meetup Group through your process for reviewing the article I'm of the opinion it would help the group deepen our knowledge. To look at the process from both sides (so to speak) would definitely help. I'm planning on continuing to chip away at the Kererū article as the more I research the more I realise there is to add! Ambrosia10 (talk) 20:55, 5 July 2021 (UTC)