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Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games

Latest comment: 22 hours ago by MKsLifeInANutshell in topic Heads up: Gamer Network acquired by IGN
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Heads up: Gamer Network acquired by IGN edit

Latest comment: 22 hours ago20 comments12 people in discussion

IGN Entertainment has acquired Gamer Network from Reed Pop, and while no site yet has been labeled for discontinuation, there are layoffs happening across Gamer Network sites due to redundancies, like Brandon Sinclair at Games Industry.biz
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/ign-buys-gamer-network-sites-layoffs-in-progress/1100-6523610/?ftag=CAD-01-10abi2f — Masem (t) 17:55, 21 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

One of these days, every single source from some point in the future and onward will be all IGN. Panini! • 🥪 18:31, 21 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Better IGN than Valnet, I guess... Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 18:56, 21 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Ugh. I sometimes wonder what Wikipedia would even look like in that hypothetical future. What will people do? Will we devolve into writing articles like "You won't believe what Link wears on his feet! (Brown shoes found in a treasure chest!)"? Sergecross73 msg me 19:08, 21 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
I just think we won't write as much, frankly, if all we get outside of major press for games is a bunch of content churnalism. I don't think we'll just decide to loosen reliable source standards because the good sources are disappearing. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 19:33, 21 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
I was mostly kidding, though I do sometimes fear that, some day, if all that's left is churnalism junk, us experienced regulars are eventually going to be swarmed and overwhelmed by newbies who use the junk because there's simply nothing else. Sergecross73 msg me 20:32, 21 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Magazines came and went in the 90s too. Laid off journalists will start their own publications. I'm not worried about coverage. czar 18:53, 22 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
I think in that case we just have to hope more Aftermaths spring up. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 19:22, 21 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Aftermath was marked as inconclusive, at the reliable source discussion board. This seems like a mistake. Shooterwalker (talk) 16:14, 22 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Agreed. Axem Titanium (talk) 23:41, 23 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
I believe that was mostly due to the age of the publication, its had several more months now to assess. Masem (t) 00:04, 24 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Combined with instant layoffs, of course. https://twitter.com/ethangach/status/1792945062151594281 IceWelder [✉] 19:28, 21 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
I'm not sure how to feel about this whole thing. On one hand, IGN is still a decent source and I doubt much will change on the content side for at least a few years. On the other hand, they've closed other good sites before and if IGN's quality decreased even more, this would be bringing down some of our other best sources with them. At least right now we still have sites owned by Future and Vox, even if the latter have their own problems. λ NegativeMP1 20:11, 21 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Yeah, I like IGN quite a bit, especially because their coverage, like GameSpot, goes back a lot farther than a lot of other websites. And I don't think they're the type to go and turn good websites into churnalism/AI/Walkthrough type junk either. I just hate that it leads to layoffs, could lead to website shutting down, and that, if IGN/GamerNetwork ever falls, the number of websites lost is going to be brutal. Sergecross73 msg me 20:43, 21 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
This is disappointing. Focusing on what it means for Wikipedia, I'll repeat a refrain that I keep bringing up at the reliable source discussion page.
Even our best sources are mixing in more churnalism / game guide / meme content. We have to confront the idea that even our best sources are somewhat situational. That means we should offer more guidance on how to use different kinds of coverage. (For example, we should always summarize game reviews, carefully use game lists, and rarely use game guides.) Shooterwalker (talk) 15:54, 22 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
The only advice i can give anybody here regarding online sources is: If you see something that is part of an article you're interested in working on it, better archive that website or take a screencap of it. You never known what might happen in the future. Do i even have to bring up 1UP.com as an example of a website bought by IGN that was later closed down and the surviving links don't even work properly? Roberth Martinez (talk) 16:46, 22 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
the WMF engine has a built in mechanism that I believe autoarchives any reference added to an article. — Masem (t) 00:08, 24 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
About time MKsLifeInANutshell (talk) 14:15, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
? Sergecross73 msg me 15:49, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Nah i just meant its about time Ziff Davis bought Gamer Network too MK at your service. 18:21, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Adding to the Homeworld Series page a Homeworld Mobile link along with Build Materials Lists and other information. edit

Latest comment: 13 days ago3 comments2 people in discussion

The Homeworld Mobile gamers want a site they can find locations of Blueprints, costs, and prerequisites as well as lists of Ship/item material quantities used to build them. I've begun putting this together but it is very preliminary right now.

I do not know how to make the proper edits within Wikipedia and very much need help in this regard. 3xTr3m3Sn1p3r (talk) 04:22, 26 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

This sort of information is not appropriate for inclusion on Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a game guide. See: WP:NOTGAMEGUIDE. I am not familiar with the game or its community, so I do not know the best recommendation for other wikis, but perhaps you can check out the Homeworld Mobile Wiki or the Homeworld Wiki at Fandom. NOTGAMEGUIDE also suggests that Wikibooks might allow it, though I am not familiar with Wikibooks and its guidelines, so I cannot offer further advice there. Fan communities, such as those on Reddit, may also have a sense of what is a better venue to house this information. It cannot be housed on Wikipedia, however, because it is overly detailed information that is not necessary to handling the subject from an encyclopedic perspective, and it will be immediately removed if you attempt to add it to the articles. ~Cheers, TenTonParasol 04:33, 26 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Thank you very much 😀 3xTr3m3Sn1p3r (talk) 23:11, 26 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Solicitation for help on a split discussion edit

Latest comment: 12 days ago1 comment1 person in discussion

There is a stalled split discussion at Talk:War Thunder#Request to move the leak list into its own page. It started over 8 months ago and I still can't quite call it. More eyes would be beneficial in order to end the discussion. Thanks. HarryKernow (talk) 23:08, 27 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Help request for Game Boy GAN edit

Latest comment: 12 days ago3 comments3 people in discussion

Hi, this is a request for help on the GAN for the Game Boy. A message on my talk page about the Vinland Saga brought home that my GA reviewing ability has taken a nosedive (the page will probably be heading for GAR). I think my life at present isn't...stable enough for me to do a proper job with GANs, or much else. Can someone else help me with this review, as it's a large article with a lot of issues. ProtoDrake (talk) 14:28, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

fwiw, there's a big difference from the review of Game Boy that you are currently doing and the one that was quick passed at Vinland Saga. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:35, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
I would probably suggest failing the Game Boy article and pushing it to a Peer Review at this point given how major an article it is. There seems to be a lot of problems throughout, and more than a GAN can feasibly address it feels like.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 14:48, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

New Articles (May 20 to May 26) edit

Latest comment: 9 days ago4 comments3 people in discussion
Main page: Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/New article announcements
 A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.20 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. --PresN 15:55, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

May 20

May 21

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  • None
{{PCGamingWiki}} seems strange to have, no? It reminded me of the AfD on the GameFAQs template. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 16:38, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
But at the same time we still have {{MobyGames}} & co. IceWelder [✉] 22:24, 30 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
The WP:WHATABOUTX (or even "WP:ALLORNOTHING") about MobyGames also came up in that discussion. Does linking to a page on PCGamingWiki mean the reader gets a greater understanding of the subject? Their wiki onBioShock Infinite for instance is great if you want to skip the introduction video, add a Turkish fan translation or disable lens flare effects, but how does that help the general reader? soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 08:45, 31 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Article links to Template:Table row counter edit

Latest comment: 11 days ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Around 69 video game articles have a note saying "This number is always up to date by this script."[1] Two articles use {{Games list counter}} which automatically adds the note and links itself instead of Template:Table row counter. It's odd to show and explain a template to readers like this, the link may fail in reusers, and "script" is misleading since it usually implies JavaScript running in the user's browser. {{Table row counter}} is used in 376 articles [2] but only linked in 70.[3] All are about video games except List of music festivals in the Netherlands. I see a point in telling readers and editors that it's always up to date but I suggest to just say "This number is automatically updated" with no link. Interested editors can easily find the used template in the wikitext. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:40, 29 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Notability of indie video games that didn't get much secondary coverage? edit

Latest comment: 8 days ago16 comments10 people in discussion

I would like to contribute by making pages for a few independent role-playing games that didn't get a whole lot of coverage: Potato Flowers in Full Bloom, Helen's Mysterious Castle, and Crystal Project. I'm new to making new Wikipedia pages, and because these games did not get much coverage in the press, I'm concerned they may not meet the notability guidelines, even though I (subjectively) see them as representing interesting ideas in game design.

Does anybody have advice for me? I've created an initial draft for Potato Flowers in Full Bloom, if that helps to get the conversation started. Jhilgard (talk) 17:44, 30 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Ultimately, if something doesn't meet notability guidelines, then it can't have an article. It is a hard line, unfortunately. That said, you may be able to find enough about these games- it really just takes a few articles that are specifically about the game to meet the guidelines, assuming that they're broad enough that you can actually write about the subject. A good tool is the WPVG custom google search, though it doesn't catch everything. I see that for Potato Flowers there's a paywalled RPS review and a PocketTactics review (not the best site, but we're getting somewhere), and NintendoLife has a short preview. That's pretty on the edge there in terms of content, even once added to what you already have, but if you dig through google you may be able to find enough. You can see what sites have been determined to be reliable or unreliable at Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Sources. Helen's Mysterious Castle and Crystal Project, unfortunately, seem to have gotten even less attention. --PresN 18:28, 30 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
I have learnt it from when I tried to make Draft:Sun Haven. I never knew such a popular farm sim game (which has 14,000 steam reviews) has little coverage in reliable sources. In fact, I could only really find one reliable source at PCGames N and that is only a short four paragraph early access review. I thought I could use sources not located at VG/S (If i am reading this correcly, sources outside VG/S are presumed to be unreliable). A similar situation with Draft:Gorilla Tag's 18,000 reviews. I have since gone ahead and took a pause from Sun Haven and creating new articles until had the opportunity to create/ Coffee Talk Episode 2 exactly one year after release, and even made it on its way to WP:DYK. I am no longer considering editing Sun Haven until the major 1.4 update is out or its on the switch for this reason. So I would not even start making your draft until you could locate at least three reliable sources.
Also, you should link to your draft at Draft:Potato Flowers in Full Bloom JuniperChill (talk) 19:19, 30 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
"sources outside VG/S are presumed to be unreliable" - not quite; the sources listed at VG/S are just those that have had discussions about them. If a source isn't listed, it could still be reliable, but you'd have to justify it yourself if questioned. If it's a videogame-focused source, it probably isn't reliable if its not listed there, but that's because most reliable sources get brought up there sooner or later so that we have a written record to point to later to in later discussions/nominations. --PresN 19:56, 30 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Yes, this is correct. Also, as WP:VG/S mentions, it mostly just documents video game-centric websites. There's tons of general interest publications - for example - the Washington Post - that would be considered usable even though its not listed. The list would be massive (and be redundant to WP:RSP if we included every reliable source.) Sergecross73 msg me 20:04, 30 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Ah ok then. I was mostly correct. But I actually found just one proper review from TheGamer "News posts and original content after August 2020 are considered generally reliable." which means its safe but would still fail my criteria for notability as it needs three. There is currently a discussion on whether GameLuster is reliable on VG/s. JuniperChill (talk) 20:42, 30 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
(edit conflict) I know some editors, myself included, have a running list of article ideas (and sources for writing them) kept in their WP:SANDBOX, and when they think they have enough coverage to meet the WP:GNG and avoid any WP:MERGEREASONs, they try to write up a WP:DRAFT and see if they have enough to warrant publishing an article. You can run drafts through WP:AFC for review, or share them hear and editors specifically into video games can give their thoughts.
My two cents: while the GNG only requires 2 third party reliable sources to cover a subject, usually WP:THREE or more present a stronger argument. I'd also recommend familiarizing yourself with WP:VG/S, as we've already gathered a rather huge selection of sources that are generally seen as usable or not-usable. Sergecross73 msg me 18:30, 30 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Generally speaking the policy is that Wikipedia is not an advertising tool, even if you are a fan who wants to advertise the game because you think it deserves to be bigger. The game must already be "big", rather than counting on Wikipedia to popularize it. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 18:39, 30 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
That's understandable, and I think that gets at the core of what I'm working through, here. I wonder if there might be more coverage in the Japanese web, but I don't read Japanese. Thanks. Jhilgard (talk) 19:42, 30 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Remember that notability is a rebuttable presumption. You may be able to pull out three sources to illustrate notability for a standalone but if that leads to a short stubby article that has no possible expansion possibilities (a game developed 5+ years ago without further coverage outside a short window) it will probably be sent to deletion. On the other hand, 3 sources for a game released last month should be fine for some time. Masem (t) 16:38, 31 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
I do feel your pain Jhilgard, there's a lot of cool successful indie games out there that receive little/no reliable source coverage. Unfortunately if the coverage doesn't, exist there's not a whole lot we can do here on Wikipedia. For Crystal Project specifically (I'm a fan of that game myself) I researched it previously and concluded there wasn't enough coverage for an article. CurlyWi (talk) 20:28, 30 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Thanks for sharing your experience, CurlyWi. It's an interesting tension between "notable" in the Wikipedia sense and "notable" in the game design sense. I suppose we've each got a head start if ever there are enough secondary sources regarding these games. Jhilgard (talk) 22:06, 30 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Pretty shocked Crystal Project isn't notable, honestly. It feels like exactly the type of game that's gotten just enough traction for an article here even if it's still somewhat on the less known side, if only for comparisons to other games. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 05:49, 31 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
It's difficult to establish notability for games that are only released on a single platform. Once it's ported, it usually picks up a Switch review from Nintendo Life, a PlayStation review from Push Square, and a Windows review from PC Gamer or Rock Paper Shotgun (or maybe even both). One "cheat" is to check for reviews on IGN affiliates. IGN France, IGN Italy, and IGN Greece post reviews for European indie games a lot more often than the main English-language site. Eurogamer has affiliates in other languages, too, but it's harder to search them. Don't forget to check French, German, Italian, and Polish sources, especially if the game was developed in Europe. It helps if you know a few reliable sources to check other than the obvious ones, like PC Games and Jeuxvideo. For example, you might check Heise.de for a German game. Finally, you can check unreliable sources, such as TV Tropes or MobyGames, for information that may help you refine your searches. For example, people on the IMDb or whatever may keep mentioning a gameplay element that they really liked. If you include that gameplay element in your web searches, it may help refine your searches and make it easier to spot reviews that also mention it. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 03:12, 31 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
This may explain why Sun Haven is not on Metacrtic yet. It is currently only on Windows platform. However, they (Pixel Sprout Studios - the developer and publisher) are on its way to release this onto the switch alongside the large update. I think I finally get one of the reasons why Sun Haven cannot make its way onto Wikipedia yet which (like I said earlier) I do not plan to create it until it makes it onto the Switch or the new update. JuniperChill (talk) 09:46, 1 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
I don't have much constructive advice to add, but I want to encourage you to cover some of these indie games. The project definitely needs it. And Metacritic can be a good place to look for games that might hit this threshold. It's something special when a small game can earn coverage in reliable sources. Shooterwalker (talk) 16:30, 31 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

New Articles (May 27 to June 2) edit

Latest comment: 4 days ago9 comments8 people in discussion
Main page: Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/New article announcements
 A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.20 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. --PresN 22:47, 3 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

May 27

May 28

May 29

May 30

May 31

June 1

June 2

Gosu caught my attention from its 20 year tagging gap (the biggest I've seen), but it seems to be a pretty lackluster article on both information and sourcing. I haven't researched it because its late here, but pointing it out just in case. Panini! • 🥪 01:42, 4 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Can I get a temperature check on some categories created by a new user? Specifically Category:Indie game characters and Category:Video gamers but I could use a 2nd opinion on many of the others too. Axem Titanium (talk) 06:43, 4 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
"Video gamers" seems like it could stay, but I have marked it for speedy renaming. It should also probably only contain a more narrow set of categories such as esports players and Let's Players. Being a Youtuber about games does not imply you play games.
Not sure "indie game character" is defining, though, as being in an indie game has nothing to do with how a character is portrayed. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 07:00, 4 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
I'd say indie game characters could probably stay for the same reason we have stuff like Category:Microsoft characters. Categorizing characters by developer is common practice, so making one for indie devs makes sense. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:13, 4 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
"Indie" isn't a specific developer though. It could be argued that the company the character is from IS defining because it determines who is allowed to use them. "Indie" is too vague to be defining, just like "AAA game characters" would also be too vague. In other words a Category:Video game characters by creator that is purely a container category might work, if there are enough categories to merit it.
Furthermore, should it not be Category:Microsoft Gaming characters? Microsoft refers to the entire company. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 14:46, 4 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
I don't think it even makes sense to group characters by the developer. Grouping characters by game and or series, obviously yes. Masem (t) 15:15, 4 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
I don’t know if it makes sense for Microsoft, but I definitely think some developers — like Nintendo — have interconnected and, for lack of a better word, iconic, casts of characters that make the common developer a defining categorization. DecafPotato (talk) 21:25, 4 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
They should be in a category for characters of a franchise (or just the franchise/series itself), which should then have a category of "Developer franchises" or whatever. -- ferret (talk) 21:26, 4 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Juhani (Star Wars) edit

Latest comment: 3 days ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Need Opinions for a clear consensus. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 04:35, 6 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Reminder: avoid creating articles on newly announced games simply based on announcement edit

Latest comment: 2 days ago3 comments3 people in discussion

with Not-E3 starting today with the Summer Game Fest kickoff, a reminder that just because a game is announced doesn't mean we should be rushing to create an article on it. Unless you can include a fair amount of aspects like development from reliable sources, it is better to create redirects from these games to series pages, an existing game that it is tied to, or to individual studios if a new IP. — Masem (t) 12:56, 7 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Agreed. Sergecross73 msg me 13:11, 7 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Yes, if you can only write one paragraph on a new game that gets announced, wait. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:11, 7 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
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