Talk:Pyramid Head

Analysis

• Escapist Magazine: Seeing Red: The Repulsive Allure of Pyramid Head Kaguya-chan (talk) 22:26, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

And Escapist Magazine: Love Triangle which is about his, er, appeal to female gamers. Kaguya-chan (talk) 22:41, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Analyzed in Column: The Aberrant Gamer - 'Sundering the Mind'. Kaguya-chan (talk) 22:45, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

The Butcher

The most I can find immediately is Yahtzee complaining about Origins having a PH knockoff, but he didn't name names. Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 17:31, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmm. Aside from this which looks like it would be useful for some of the real-life references in Origins, I found this sentence here: "When Butcher, Origin's Pyramid Head predecessor, I say there's no better weapon than a toaster." Can't imagine what it means through...^.^ Anyhow, it seems to link PH and the Butcher, which is a start. Kaguya-chan (talk) 18:10, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

References

[1] (maybe)

[2] (maybe)

[3]

[4] - Discussion of Pyramid Head's inclusion in Homecoming

[5] - Discussion of Pyramid Head's creation in the film

[6]

- The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 05:21, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

[7] one more for analysis. Kaguya-chan (talk) 21:30, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

• [8] Hula Hup (talk) 10:46, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

For "Reception": [9]. Hula Hup (talk) 01:20, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Pyramid Head/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

GA review (see here for criteria)

---

I found the article to be overall effective and informative, especially for someone such as myself who has never played any Silent Hill games.

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   I'm giving a pass on the prose, per the GA criteria, though a more thorough copyedit would be recommended if you want to take it further. Some of the sentences felt stilted, and the natural flow was disrupted a few times by short sentences or awkward transitions. This didn't affect understandability of the subject, however. One minor issue was accessibility for those unversed in the Silent Hill universe. Most of this was taken care of, though in the Silent Hill 2 appearance section, you mention "Pyramid Head rapes and kills two Mannequin creatures", though I have no idea what these creatures are; perhaps a link to the relevant section in List of Silent Hill monsters would be helpful.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   I would like to confirm the reliability of several sources you use: Refs 10, 12, 16, 22, 23, and 29-32.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   The single image of Pyramid Head contains a bare-bones FUR, which is no reason to fail the article, though I'd recommend beefing it up some. Also, the source reads "Promotional material distributed by Konami for the character." but this doesn't tell me where the image actually came from, such as a website.

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   These issues should be easy enough to go through. Great work on the article.

--十八 00:57, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for taking the time to review.

Prose

• Fixed the part about the Manniquin monsters.
• Also, if you point out the places where the prose is rough, I'll happily fix it.

Refs:

• 10: Well Played 1.0 is a CC-distributed book that is an "in-depth close readings of video games that parse out the various meanings to be found in the experience of playing a game".[10]
• 12: Leigh Alexander has written for Destructoid, Paste, and Gamasutra, where she is the news director.[11][12][13]
• 16: Removed.
• 22: GameDaily does have an editorial staff and is owned by AOL.[14]
• 23: Removed.
• 29-32: Games Radar is listed as a reliable source by the video games Wikiproject, per these discussions [15] [16].

Images

• To be honest, I have no idea where the picture came from. If I had to guess, it's probably from Konami's The Book of Lost Memories, but I can't say for sure. If you'd like, I could replace it with a screenshot from the game.

Kaguya-chan (talk) 21:48, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

On second look, the Tom Waltz interview I feel should be left in. I was mainly looking for websites that didn't seem reliable at first glance, but an interview of someone close to Silent Hill media is more or less neutral. The other refs seem okay to me now. As for the image, I guess you could ask the original uploader for a possible source, since I doubt the article could go to FA without a proper source or a more thorough FUR.

Prose suggestions:

Design and characteristics

• Masahiro Ito, the designer of Silent Hill 2's monsters, wanted to create "a monster with a hidden face". He added the pyramid-shaped helm to hide the monster's face.

• We know Ito wanted to hide the monster's face from the first sentence, so repeating this in the second is redundant. Rewrite it into one sentence, such as "Masahiro Ito, the designer of Silent Hill 2's monsters, wanted to create "a monster with a hidden face", which lead him to add the pyramid-shaped helm."

• According to Ito, "The triangle has right angles and acute angles, their sharpness suggests the possibility of pain."

• I know this is a direct quote, but the transition from "angels" to "their" is ungrammatical, and the repetition of "angels" is redundant. You could paraphrase the quote to make reading it easier. Such as: "According to Ito, the possibility of pain is suggested, because of the triangle's sharp right and acute angles."

• Pyramid Head's appearance was a variation of the outfits of the executioners from times past

• When you say "times past", are you talking about real-life history, or the fictional history of Silent Hill? I ask, because you immediately bring up Valtiel, so while reading the first part of the sentence implies a real-life history reference, you transition to a fictional history in the latter part of the sentence, making it confusing.

Appearances

• Terrified, James hides in a closet and as Pyramid Head stops near it, he panics and shoots him with a handgun several times. Pyramid Head then leaves.

• The second sentence is a little too short. Perhaps: "Terrified and panicked, James hides in a closet and shoots Pyramid head with a handgun several times, which causes him to leave."

• Near a stairway, James witnesses his rape of another creature; Pyramid Head then attempts to kill him. After a few minutes, sirens sound in the distance and Pyramid Head descends the flooded stairway, removing the water.

• Suggestion: "James witnesses Pyramid Head's rape of another creature when near a flooded stairway and Pyramid Head attempts to kill him. After a few minutes, sirens sound in the distance and Pyramid Head descends the stairway, removing the water."

--十八 00:20, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

I have made all the suggested changes and left a note on the original uploader's talk page. Kaguya-chan (talk) 01:43, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Congrats, I am passing the article; great work.--十八 02:05, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

A-Class Assessment

A-Class Assessment here. Kaguya-chan (talk) 22:31, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

• Comment: Most of the article seem pretty good. However I noticed two dead links in the article. GamerPro64 (talk) 21:06, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Fixed links. Kaguya-chan (talk) 20:59, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Support: I believe that it deserves A-class now. GamerPro64 (talk) 20:20, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Support - promoting to A-Class --Teancum (talk) 12:44, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Major issues before FAC

I'll probably fix some, or maybe all, myself in the near future, but, anyways, here are some things:

• The "Concept and design" section is currently in a mess concerning the timeline of the overall process; the section should follow the chronological order of events, as first comes the process of conceiving the character and their role (concept) and then comes the process of creating the character (design).
• The "Silent Hill 2" sub-section needs more citations.
• The "Analysis" section should have its name changed, as it is very vague; analysis of what? A suggestion would be "Symbolism".
• In the "Reception and legacy" section, citation 5 links to an article by Christina González, but the sentence says that Samantha Xu is the writer; it should be checked if further similar mistakes exist in the section.
• In the "External links" section, there's a link to an irrelevant page; also, I'm not 100% sure, but this could be considered favoritism. It could be substituted with a link to a Wikipedia article of another video game character who is iconic in the series they belong to, maybe Nemesis (Resident Evil)?

Hula Hup (talk) 23:44, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

1) There wasn't a chronological order of events, as far as I can tell. Ito wanted a monster without a face, didn't like the inital designs, and then created PH. Or so the story goes. ;) I don't know if he had a specific role for the character to fulfil at that time, and would prefer not to assume.
2) The entire source for the game's plot is, well, the game itself. Much like the source for the plot of a book.
3) Analysis is implied analysis of the character's role. He's more than just a symbol of James' anger, guilt, etc; he's also his tormentor, and in a way, Mary's avenger.
4) That's unsettling. Please do correct any mistakes like that.
5) Never thought of it like that. What if it had IGN's page of PH too? Nice find with Nemesis, though. It could go under a "see also" section. Kaguya-chan (talk) 00:40, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

1) How can there not be a chronological order? Ito first decided the character's concept (a monster with a hidden face) and then designed him; the title "Concept and reception" was chosen because WikiProject Video games says so (check the "For characters" bit); someone with common sense would say that the section should have a layout which follows the order of events (i.e. begin with the concept behind the character (the initial phase) and end with the character's design (the final phase), but it currently both begins and ends with the character's physical appearance, which belongs to the "design" part of the section, which is chronologically preceded by the "concept" part; as such, the "concept" part, which is the initial phase, is in the middle of the section. I've also noticed that the wording is POV in some instances (e.g. "reminiscent of a butcher's smock", "His most outstanding feature is his large red, triangular head").
2) Then we should place a citation to the game.
3) The fact that he's a tormentor and Mary's avenger are symbols themselves (another alternative would be "Analysis and symbolism" or "Symbolism and analysis").
4) I'll see to it.
5) Sorry!!! It was late at night here (and still is), when I was writing my last comment here, so I was (am) sleepy :P; I wanted to include my idea on Nemesis in a sixth issue, but due to fatigue, I accidentally included it in the fifth. About favoritism, I had no idea about it, I learned about it from Teancum on SH1's talk page, I don't know if he was right or wrong in that case, and neither I know for sure if the link to UGO Entertainment here is considered favoritism; I believe we should ask Prime Blue, whom I immensely trust (he/she helped greatly in promoting SH1 to GA status) before we remove or add links to PH's profiles on sites. Hula Hup (talk) 01:51, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

1) Oh, that makes a little more sense. Better now?
2) To what extent? A cite after every sentence in the section seems over-the-top, but one at the end of each paragraph, not so much.
3) I wouldn't categorize PH as Mary's avenger and James' tormenter as a symbol, but as his relationship towards the two characters. He cannot be a symbol of James' tormentor, but he can be a symbol of James' inner torment (an idea). Since the section discusses his role and symbolism, it might be better left as "analysis"—a broad category which covers symbolism too. Or maybe I'm nitpicking over something incredibly minor. ;)
4) Okay!
5) No worries! I'm all for getting outside opinions. Ask away! Kaguya-chan (talk) 03:47, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

1) Yes, a bit better.
2) You believe one citation to the video game itself at the end of the sub-section is good?
3) I don't know...
4) I have work to do!
5) Done. Hula Hup (talk) 23:37, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

• In the lead, Takayoshi Sato is mentioned without explaining who he is; I haven't checked if this is repeated.
• In "Analysis", reviewer personal opinions are presented as facts ("Representing 'James' anger and guilt'", "Pyramid Head acts as 'judgment personified, a sexually dark butcher'").

Hula Hup (talk) 09:25, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Done and done. Kaguya-chan (talk) 01:09, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

• Same applies to "Concept and design": "only Pyramid Head features an 'overly masculine' appearance", "He resembles a pale, muscular man covered with a white, blood-soaked robe reminiscent of a butcher's smock", "painfully", "His most outstanding feature is his large red, triangular head". Hula Hup (talk) 22:32, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

• In "Concept and design", Lost Memories is mentioned without explaining what it is. Hula Hup (talk) 04:07, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Clarification requested during GOCE copy edit

I'm doing the copyedit requested on the GOCE requests page. Actually, the article is already very well written, and there's only a little to do. But I've placed a {{Clarify}} on the sentence "Pyramid Head functions as an executioner of Maria, who strongly resembles Mary and is later revealed to be a delusion of James,^[36] and his constant tormentor.^{[9][clarification needed]}". This punctuation implies that it is Maria who is James's delusion and constant tormentor. However, I am in doubt becuae ref [9] is really saying that Pyramid Head is the tormentor. I have no access to ref [36] and maybe they are both delusions(?) Anyway, this needs clarifying. --Stfg (talk) 14:33, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

First of all, thank you so much for such a beautiful copyedit. I'm in awe. Second, you're right: the ref 36 does refer to Pyramid Head as the tormentor. Maria and PH are manifestations of James' (no one else in the game ever sees him, except Maria and James). Hope that helps! Kaguya-chan (talk) 18:00, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Thank you very much for that kind comment. I've made a change to make this clear and removed the tag. Actually, just putting a comma after "Mary" would probably do it, but adding another "he" puts it beyond doubt. Good luck when you take it to FAC. --Stfg (talk) 18:23, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! We've been expecting this. What do you think about the issues above? Do you disagree with any? Hula Hup (talk) 20:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for asking my views. I'm not a subject expert, just a copy editor, so I can't really add to your discussions (1) and (2). For (3), I think "Analysis" is quite OK, and the suggested alternative, "Symbolism", is also fine. If these don't satisfy, another possibility would be "Psychological significance". Don't forget to insert an anchor if you change it! For (4), I don't see Samantha Xu mentioned in the article, so I think the citation as currently given is good. On (5), once again I cannot comment as I'm not a subject expert, but, of course, a link to another Wikipedia article would belong in See also, not in External links. --Stfg (talk) 10:29, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

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