This page is within the scope of WikiProject Spaceflight, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of spaceflight on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SpaceflightWikipedia:WikiProject SpaceflightTemplate:WikiProject Spaceflightspaceflight articles
I've been working on a tool for the past few months that you may find useful. Wikipedia:Sandbox organiser is a set of tools to help you better organise your draft articles and other pages in your userspace. It also includes areas to keep your to do lists, bookmarks, list of tools. You can customise your sandbox organiser to add new features and sections. Once created you can access it simply by clicking the sandbox link at the top of the page. You can create and then customise your own sandbox organiser just by clicking the button on the page. All ideas for improvements and other versions would be really appreciated.
Huge thanks to PrimeHunter and NavinoEvans for their work on the technical parts, without them it wouldn't have happened.
@John Cummings: Goodness! Looks very cool. I imagine this will be better than my makeshift system. :) Thanks very much. --Neopeius (talk) 14:49, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
Neopeius thanks very much, please let me know if you have any suggestions for improvements in both the tool and the documentation, also if you look in the wikicode you'll see I've tried to add comments to make it easier to customise. I'm thinking there might be a couple of useful versions of this for different kinds of user. John Cummings (talk) 14:55, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
@John Cummings: I use it all the time now. I only wish there were a way to delete User pages when I was done with them. --Neopeius (talk) 14:05, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
I've always been a bit confused myself about the need for the orbital elements in the Apollo article infoboxes, and feel they are of limited utility. The one-in-a-thousand (generously) editor who wants to know the selenocentric orbital parameters of, say, Apollo 14, probably knows that they changed several times and can find better, more specific sources.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:26, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
Flights to the ISS never launch to the ISS orbit directly. Most of the time you would not end up in the same place as the ISS, and if you do then it's too risky to approach it using a big and relatively imprecise upper stage rocket engine. The typical rocket launch goes to an orbit below and behind the ISS, from there you "catch up" and then raise your orbit at the right time. I don't know what exactly is plotted in the graph, but it's probably the initial orbit for the lower Soyuz mission and a later orbit for the missions that match the ISS height. --mfb (talk) 08:52, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
Yes, I thought it would mean something like this ; except these are articles about the missions, so we might want orbital parameters of the mission itself ? And the mission is the ISS.
So I propose to remove orbital parameters of missions to MIR and to the ISS. It it an acceptable change ? It seems too big a decision for someone new here. --LazyAssed Contender (talk) 09:19, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
Just referencing the ISS would work I guess. The ISS orbit when docking would be an option, too. The initial orbit would be more interesting in the scope of the rocket launch, not the crewed mission. --mfb (talk) 15:19, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
List of...launches page creation and formattingEdit
Starting with List of Electron launches (Which I split away from Electron (rocket) pages) there seems to be increase in articles which split the list of launches from their respective launch vehicle pages. What should (or should there be) a criteria when a split becomes necessary?
When I split the List of Electron launches my intent in was because of Rocket Lab's claim that they will have frequent launches and that would cause the article to become too long. In hindsight this is probably WP:CRYSTAL.
Recently I noticed that there are similar pages or drafts being created:
The new pages do add new info in some cases (I like some of the new graphs in particular like "by orbit" - maybe other list of pages can add them too). But also some of the lists have the formatting changed from the original which I found confusing. I don't think infoboxes are needed as readers can go to the main page about the rocket to learn more about it. And the heading "About the <rocket name>" doesn't seem like an encyclopedic tone, but other then that the pages seem fine.
So, at what point should the list of launches be split out (or how many launches of a particular launch vehicle warrant a dedicated list of launches article)? What info should we have on those pages? OkayKenji(talk • contribs) 02:36, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
I would say in most cases about 10 launches (including planned) should merit its own article. If a rocket is very notable, however, like Starship (List of Starship flights), it could work with less. N828335 (talk) 03:44, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
2020 is missing most flights, 2021 is starting with the same problem. But do we need these templates? Where is the use case of "I'm looking at this satellite, I want to go to satellites that were launched the same calendar year"? If people think it's useful then the templates should probably be expanded to cover all launches. --mfb (talk) 09:54, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
@Mfb: This is a complete guess, but I think the criteria for including something in these navboxes is that a) it has an article and b) it's actually been launched into orbit. At this stage, the vast amount of payloads launched to orbit thus far in 2021, three months in, do not have their own articles, and that might be the reason why it's very bare-bones at the moment. — Molly Brown (talk) 00:58, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
– I thought I'd open the discussion here, as it'd attract as many opinions as possible compared to if I placed it on the talk page of any of these articles. Anyways, it just seemed weird to me that we have different naming schemes going for the Northrop Grumman Cygnus missions and the Orbital Sciences / Orbital ATK Cygnus missions. The article titles for the Northrop Grumman Cygnus missions have a good naming scheme in which the mission name – "NG-10", "NG-11", "NG-12", ect. – is prefixed by the name of the spacecraft class being flown – "Cygnus" – in order to disambiguate the name from being a seemingly random assortment of two letters and two numbers (WP:DAB). We would get the same idea if we applied the same naming scheme to the Orbital Sciences / Orbital ATK Cygnus missions; we really don't need to further disambiguate with "CRS" in order to communicate that these are Cygnus spaceflight missions instead of something else called "Orb" or "OA" (WP:PRECISION), in my opinion. — Molly Brown (talk) 13:51, 11 March 2021 (UTC) —Relisting.BD2412T 22:55, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
@Bop34: I feel that it would be a bandaid solution if the article titles themselves are not being changed to be more consistent with other articles on Cygnus missions and better comply with standards for precision and disambiguation in article titles. — Molly Brown (talk) 03:04, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
Comment: Wow, what a mess. Before I oppose let me make a comment and have my mind changed. I think the CRS is important in the title. In the NASA Mission Overview files (see 4, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12) the official name of the first 9 CRS missions are Orbital ATK CRS-1 to Orbital ATK CRS-9. Then they switched to Northrop Grumman CRS-10 to Northrop Grumman CRS-17. CRS-X is the consistent naming scheme of all the Cygnus missions from 1 all the way through to 17. I do not find "Cygnus" in the mission title anywhere but here on Wikipedia. I would therefor propose title names of OA CRS-1 to OA CRS-9 and then NG CRS-10 to NG CRS-17. This makes a nice standard beside the SpaceX CRS-1 series of flight articles. JHelzer💬 13:53, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
Thanks Molly, for clarifying that. It didn't register for me until your reminder. I think we should also consider the titles of the upcoming Dream Chaser CRS missions. Will they be Dream Chaser-1 or Sierra Nevada CRS-1? I still think that CRS in the title is important to tie all the Commercial Resupply Service missions together and make them instantly recognizable. JHelzer💬 05:04, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
@JHelzer: Ultimately, I want there to be consistency among the Cygnus mission names; the Dream Chaser, Dragon, and Dragon 2 mission names are a different ballpark with their own WP:COMMONNAME and WP:DAB needs. I ultimately see the "Orbital-x"/"Orb-x", "OA-x", and "NG-x" mission names to be the WP:COMMONNAMEs in the case of Cygnus; take for example, the OA-9E mission, which has been written as simply "OA-9E" by NASA, Orbital ATK, Space.com, SpaceNews, Spaceflight Now, NASA Spaceflight, and others. Using operator names instead to disambiguate them would also lead to very unusual names such as "Orbital Orb-3" or "Northrop Grumman NG-10". In my honest opinion, the spacecraft class name would be a more suitable disambiguator for consistency among Cygnus mission names, especially since the operator name changed three times. — Molly Brown (talk) 05:28, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
Unfortunately, I do not see these drafts ever making their way to mainspace, specific prototype development is not particularly notable in the first place, and any information should probably just be placed in the main article (if they are infact influential development steps). While a steel cylinder falling from the sky and proceeding to explode make great clips, it does not make for well sourced article which can't be explained by a few sentences. Terasail[✉] 19:55, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
Thank you, User:Ruslik0 and User:Terasil. I was about to tell the unregistered editor to discuss here and see if you agreed with me that they are not individually notable, and I see that we agree. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:14, 9 April 2021 (UTC)