Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association

Latest comment: 21 hours ago by Useight in topic Game 1 or game 1


Steph Curry 6-6 on threes on April 9 edit

On April 9, Curry went 6–6 on threes (https://www.espn.com/nba/recap/_/gameId/401585783). I know that Jalen Brunson tied the NBA record this year with a 9-9, so it is not nearly an NBA record for single-game threes without a miss. However, Steph has never gone more than 4–4 without a miss before. I believe this might be a Warriors record (based on my cursory look at his game logs). Nonetheless, statmuse.com does not include the performance (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-3-point-shots-made-without-a-miss-in-a-game-in-golden-state-history), but seems support 6–6 as a team record. I want to drop it in Stephen_Curry#Records as a shared record, but can't find any support for this.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

If there was a Golden State Warriors accomplishments and records article (similar to Los Angeles Lakers accomplishments and records), perhaps that would be a good place to put that information. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 03:38, 26 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
@TonyTheTiger, Adding it to Golden State Warriors#Franchise leaders and awards would probably not fit. Other option is to add record to List of career achievements by Stephen Curry but that article is most likely going to be deleted because of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of career achievements by Larry Bird. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 04:25, 26 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
User:BeFriendlyGoodSir, it looks like a lot of these lists have been trashed. Is that content really being deleted or is it being merged back?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:07, 26 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
@TonyTheTiger, Perhaps some of it should have been merged to main article but I believe they did not. They already deleted Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of career achievements by Dwight Howard, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of career achievements by Carmelo Anthony , Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of career achievements by Chris Paul and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of career achievements by Dwyane Wade (2nd nomination). - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 18:09, 26 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
I am not sure how I feel about those deletions personally but that is the consensus. Their reasoning is WP:UNDUE and WP:NOTSTATS. But it might also have to do with WP:NOEFFORT and lacking sources. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 18:19, 26 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
Rodman and Garnett are the most recent lists to be deleted. I disagree with the consensus, but it is a consensus.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:20, 5 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

List of NBA awards edit

User:BeFriendlyGoodSir and I have been talking about changes needed at the listing at List of NBA awards. Basically we were thinking about in season awards NBA Player of the month, Coach of the month, Player of the Week and Rookie of the Month seem to all be official NBA awards that we don't list or even have articles for. In addition, the NBA CUP MVP seems like it is official enough to be listed in that infobox. Thoughts?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:39, 29 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

They are mentioned separately in each NBA season's article (see 2023–24 NBA season#Players of the Week) but not in List of NBA awards as you say. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 21:49, 29 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
Infoboxes are meant to be a summary of the prose. I don't think the monthly awards are mentioned at the prose at all. Howard the Duck (talk) 06:32, 30 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
The lead sentence currently limits the scope to annual awards, similar to List of Major League Baseball awards. Do sources talk about all the historical winners collectively, as opposed to only mentioning them for a given season? —Bagumba (talk) 07:06, 30 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
List of Major League Baseball awards#Reliever of the Year mentions Reliever of the Month Award and now-defunct Delivery Man of the Month Award which have their own articles. Also, MLB also has Major League Baseball Rookie of the Month Award, Major League Baseball Pitcher of the Month Award, and Major League Baseball Player of the Month Award.- BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 21:46, 30 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
Basketball Reference POTM list, Basketball Reference POTW list, Basketball Reference ROTM list, Basketball Reference COTM list. RS sources to support? I found many RS for winners in a given month. Haven't looked for RS on historical winners collectively. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 23:33, 30 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
Stat sites are typically not used to establish notability. WP:LISTN needs to be met.—Bagumba (talk) 01:48, 1 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Jayson Tatum named Eastern Conference Player of the Month after leading Celtics to 9-1 record in February, The Most Player Of The Month Awards: LeBron Has More Than Kobe And Jordan Combined, LeBron James Is Undoubtedly The NBA’s Player Of The Decade. No One Else Is Even Close., Mavs' Luka Doncic Named February's Western Conference Player of Month BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 03:29, 1 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
What does LeBron do with all those Player of the Month awards? - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 03:34, 1 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Every NBA Eastern and Western Conference Player of the Week award for 2023-24 - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 03:35, 1 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Those are some sources I found. I don't see any collective historical winner list that includes ALL of them from a single RS. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 03:42, 1 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
But I did find annual breakdowns of POTM and POTW records if that is enough? - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 03:45, 1 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Mosts of those sites are amateurish and bloggy and not what I consider reliable (Fansided, Fan Network, SB Nation). Also, WP:LISTN requires that the group be discussed, not just mention of one person winning.

One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines; notable list topics are appropriate for a stand-alone list. The entirety of the list does not need to be documented in sources for notability, only that the grouping or set in general has been.

Bagumba (talk) 03:53, 1 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Sounds like those MLB of the Month records should be AfD'd then. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 04:02, 1 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Namely, Major League Baseball Player of the Week Award, Major League Baseball Rookie of the Month Award, Major League Baseball Pitcher of the Month Award, Major League Baseball Player of the Month Award, Major League Baseball Reliever of the Year Award, Delivery Man of the Month Award - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 04:21, 1 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Major League Baseball Reliever of the Year Award seems ok. —Bagumba (talk) 05:09, 1 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Typo. meant to say Major League Baseball Reliever of the Month Award - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 04:24, 2 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
It could be a good litmus test. —Bagumba (talk) 05:08, 1 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
@TonyTheTiger, turns out NBA Rookie of the Month Award already exists and was created in 2009. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 00:08, 10 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
I think it is fair to say if POTM, POTW, or COTM were created, they would likely remain up. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 00:11, 10 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
I would create it myself if I was confident that it will stay up. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 01:08, 10 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

List of countries with their first NBA player edit

Similar to List of countries with their first NHL player, NBA could benefit from an article called List of countries with their first NBA player which would expand upon Race and ethnicity in the NBA. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 04:27, 2 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

In theory, the info is already at List of NBA players born outside the United States if you sort by career years and then by country. —Bagumba (talk) 04:53, 2 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

List of NBA players born outside the United States edit

List of NBA players born outside the United States (formerly named List of foreign NBA players) strangely now lists some players born in the US. Go figure.—Bagumba (talk) 05:09, 2 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

As I recall, the article used to be more focused on nationality than birthplace. The article was moved due to concerns over the term "foreign," but the actual scope of the page is still poorly defined. I do think birthplaces are a more practical focus. We certainly shouldn't be including guys like Matt Costello, who was born in the US and became naturalized to play for Cote D'Ivoire years after his cup of coffee in the NBA. Zagalejo (talk) 04:01, 3 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
People have only one birthplace, which avoids the unwieldy nationality and incorrect assumptions about which countries have jus soli and players with dual citizenship. One caveat is that the NBA never counted players born overseas to US military parents. There's enough articles talking about non-US players to meet WP:LISTN, and then grouping by birthplace is an editorial content decision.—Bagumba (talk) 04:44, 3 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Does the NBA still have a master list of who they consider to be "international" players? Back in the day, the book version of the Official NBA Encyclopedia listed everyone by country, but that only went up to the year 2000 or thereabouts. I doubt we'll ever see a new edition of that book. Zagalejo (talk) 18:21, 3 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
They seem to have press releases before each season, like this for 2023–24. Note that for notability purposes, we should go off what independent sources say, and not necessarily be a slave to the NBA wishes. —Bagumba (talk) 20:51, 3 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Team captains edit

There's quite a few current roster templates where captains are marked.[1] At the last discussion in 2018, there was no indication that these are verifiable (if even a thing still).

Any objectioons to:

  1. Remove them from current templates
  2. Remove them from historical team season pages
  3. Remove from the legend at Template:NBA roster footer

@Rikster2 and Sabbatino:: Courtesy notification as participants from the last discussion.—Bagumba (talk) 05:22, 3 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Sbaio: Oops, your name changed since then.—Bagumba (talk) 05:23, 3 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
The info is usually unverified and lots of assumptions that star players are automatically captains. I support the idea of removing completely. Rikster2 (talk) 12:50, 3 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
They should be removed completely. I always remove the "C" when I end up on roster templates, but anonymous IP editors tend to add them again. – sbaio 14:36, 3 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
None of the roster pages that I saw (NBA.com, ESPN, Fox Sports, CBS and B-R) list team captaons, but all as well don't show things such as college, and only some listed injury status or being a G-League player. If we'd be ditching this, we'd be ditching several more data. Howard the Duck (talk) 14:44, 3 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
NBA.com used to list all roster info in a table, but then they went to a picture gallery. To get the college info, you need to click on the "Player Bio" link from their pic. At any rate, college is verifiable, one way or another. We don't know where to readily get historical captain info to support all the uncited data. In more recent times, I don't even think the concept still exists in the NBA. I was never into injury updates, but at least they're moot once a season is over.—Bagumba (talk) 15:00, 3 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
NBA.com does use a gallery to present rosters, but for the others that I saw still used the tabular format. Some denoted injuries and G-Leaguers, and yes the colleges should be on individual player pages, but the tabular all have name, position (not all that I saw agreed on the position), jersey number, height and weight. This is on mobile and may be different on PCs. Howard the Duck (talk) 15:23, 3 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
ESPN and Basketball Reference show colleges on desktop (at least).—Bagumba (talk) 15:37, 3 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
On mobile, ESPN seems it doesn't, but you'd have to scroll on the right side to see it. It even has a column for salary and I haven't seen that earlier.
Suggestion: Either replace NBA.com with ESPN as roster references, or add ESPN as a second reference. Remove captains, injuries, draft picks, etc. Howard the Duck (talk) 16:04, 3 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
We've always referred to NBA.com for the "listed" height and weight, so that would be a big departure to remove it. —Bagumba (talk) 16:33, 3 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
For "etc." I was referring to the symbols used in {{NBA roster footer}}. Howard the Duck (talk) 17:43, 3 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Also, these roster templates are exclusively sourced to NBA.com team pages. If this is the case, only the information seen on the web page should be the ones that should be presented on Wikipedia's roster lists, unless multiple refs will be used, and if colleges are added, these will be specifically cited via per player basis. Howard the Duck (talk) 15:27, 3 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
At least on WP:FL reviews from years ago, the general sentiment was that one source is sufficient if info is reasonably navigable off that page. In the worst case, extra refs can be added. And then technically speaking, WP:V only requires that info is verifiable (not necessarily cited), which colleges are. Only challenged or likely to be challenged info needs citations ;-) —Bagumba (talk) 15:46, 3 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Things like college and DOB ARE on nba.com, just at the drill down to the player pages (from the roster link already provided). There is no reason that we have to source differently than it is today. We are moving far afield of the point - which is to assess if captaincy is kept on the WP roster template. Rikster2 (talk) 20:22, 3 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Update All |note=C have been removed from the rosters on NBA team season and NBA Finals pages. On those pages, where |inj=yes was also present, I removed them, as it's trivial now if they were injured at the end of the season. There's still 100s of other historical team season pages with "inj=yes" on them.—Bagumba (talk) 09:14, 5 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

  • I kind of agree with the decision. It seems to me that college media guides seem to list captains historically like it is important and NBA team Media Guides (which seem to be harder to rustle up) don't seem to as much. Is this the logic? I think that is what User:Bagumba is saying.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:20, 6 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
    i think the concept doesnt exist in NBA anymore. But random editors still add them, thinking it must be their star player. Then historically, nobody has indicated a way to comprehensively source them. —Bagumba (talk) 15:54, 6 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
    Don't the refs talk to a player from each team prior to the tip off? Presumably that's the captain. I've always thought that this is given to the player with the longest tenure regardless of playing time. Either way, at this point it's hard to source this fact. Howard the Duck (talk) 05:42, 7 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
    I think in the old days, only designated captains were officially allowed to talk to the refs. At some point, that was abandoned (or just not publicly advertised?).—Bagumba (talk) 08:43, 7 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
    That was abandoned but I thought captains were still discussing stuff with the refs before tip off... I am still noticing this on TV but the refs may be talking to random players now. Howard the Duck (talk) 12:10, 7 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Unsourced sections at NBA Finals article edit

I recently discovered that both the Bulls dynasty section and the Spurs and Lakers dominance section are entirely unsourced, and I tagged them accordingly. It would be nice to get the page in better shape before this year's Finals, when there will almost certainly be a spike in readership. Anyone who is willing and able to pitch in with citations to reliable sources would be greatly appreciated, thanks. Left guide (talk) 05:35, 7 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Plenty of other sparsely sourced sections there too. These types of pages would be better with more comprehensive sources, with expert input on the overall highlights. Otherwise, it's swayed by editors/fans putting in their best memories. And the "dynasty" and "era" headings in all sports pages is quite monotonous. —Bagumba (talk) 09:08, 7 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Scoot Henderson plus-minus edit

Would it be WP:UNDUE to include in the WP:LEAD the sentence that "Henderson has achieved two of the three worst single-game plus-minus totals (-56 & -58) in NBA history"? Should I ask this at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:08, 7 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Opinions requested re: NBA Most Valuable Player Award edit

One editor insists on adding this.

I think it's superfluous, junky, and wholly unnecessary.

What say the others? SportsGuy789 (talk) 02:06, 10 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

A related policy is WP:ONUS:

While information must be verifiable for inclusion in an article, not all verifiable information must be included...The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content.

Bagumba (talk) 11:24, 11 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

task forces edit

  Resolved

Based on the conversation at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association/Archive 44#WP:NBA project main page needs a revamp, the "inactive" task forces should probably be removed from WikiProject,. As a beginner Wikipedian, I was unbelievably confused with them being there. "Currently, there are eight task forces related to the NBA, and one related to the WNBA." I would remove it myself but I am not sure how. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 21:24, 12 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Discrepancies between Basketball-reference.com and NBA.com edit

User:爨龘龘 seems to be making a lot of edits that disagree with Basketball-reference.com, but states that these are numbers from NBA.com. Has anyone noticed a lot of differences between the two.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:02, 20 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Over a decade ago, I remember observing that NBA.com would sometimes round stats differently from basketball-reference.com. Does basketball-reference still provide year-by-year playoff stats for each player? Or do they break everything down by series now? Zagalejo (talk) 18:13, 20 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
BR still has both year-by-year and series-by-series.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:31, 21 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
In sections like "Per Game" and "Totals" there's now a "Playoffs" tab. —Bagumba (talk) 14:55, 21 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Oh, I see. Thanks! Zagalejo (talk) 18:08, 21 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Regarding this diff, I think basketball-reference is correct to round down. Both NBA.com and basketball-reference have the same total number of minutes. Mathematically, the average should be 34.9444444.... I have not looked closely at these things in many years, so I don't know how common these discrepancies are. Zagalejo (talk) 03:21, 22 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
The User I opened this thread with seems to mostly correct these discrepancies. I think he has found thousands in his four years on WP.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:14, 22 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
If we look at the game logs, playing time there is recorded with seconds as well. I wonder if it's a matter of one rounding to minutes and then dividing by games, and the other rounding after division, accounting for the .1 difference? The brain dead thing would just be to go w/ NBA.com, since it's their league. Otherwise, if one really wanted to be thorough (for minutes played?!?!), footnote the discrepancy. —Bagumba (talk) 05:51, 22 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
It's possible that the recording of seconds is leading to discrepancies. JamesOn Curry only played a few seconds in his NBA career. NBA.com lists his MPG as 0.1, but basketball reference lists it as 0.0. In that case, NBA.com is arguably more correct. Zagalejo (talk) 12:25, 22 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Although NBA.com has a different MPG for Curry in his career line, so who knows... Zagalejo (talk) 12:31, 22 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Conference finals mvp edit

Why can’t we just include conference finals MVP’s for Jokic, Curry, Tatum and Butler and players moving forward? I get it’s new but so it’s clutch player of the year and that’s on the wiki resumes. I feel conference finals MVPs is a significant award, especially being named after Magic and Bird, and more than likely the greats will win (like finals mvp) so it’s a relevant award I feel, plus it shows as well who won that conference if they didn’t win the finals but won conference finals mvp. 73.176.156.52 (talk) 06:51, 27 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

There's never been a consensus to include the clutch award.—Bagumba (talk) 07:34, 27 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Bagumba is correct; if any particular NBA-related award doesn't appear at WP:NBASTYLE#NBA highlights, then there is no consensus for its inclusion in infoboxes, and thus by default stays out of infoboxes unless and until a contrary consensus is reached per the WP:ONUS policy clause which stipulates The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content. Left guide (talk) 09:20, 27 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • I strongly Support Conference finals MVP awards for all prominent displays such as infoboxes and templates (both template for the award and link in championship team template). I.e., the way baseball includes LCSMVP in templates like {{2023 Texas Rangers}}, we should include conference finals MVP in templates like {{Denver Nuggets 2022–23 NBA champions}}-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:55, 27 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • Oppose adding conference finals MVP. It is not a terminal MVP award and we have not included them for this reason. It is one of many ways to manage the volume of bullets in the infobox, especially for highly accomplished players like Jokic, Curry, Tatum etc. The highlights list is not supposed to be every single accomplishment for a player. I have no objection of people want to add the designation to the NBA champion template, though you could see a lot of the same player winning both, which is a little different than baseball. Rikster2 (talk) 14:44, 27 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • Comment A related guideline is MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE:

    When considering any aspect of infobox design, keep in mind the purpose of an infobox: to summarize (and not supplant) key facts that appear in the article...The less information it contains, the more effectively it serves that purpose, allowing readers to identify key facts at a glance. Of necessity, some infoboxes contain more than just a few fields; however, wherever possible, present information in short form, and exclude any unnecessary content.

    Bagumba (talk) 14:58, 27 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
    I understand why we don’t include it, but another good reason on why we could include it is because it also highlights for readers that this player reached the Finals and lost, but his performance in the playoffs was elite enough to warrant a conference finals mvp. For the most part only the greats will get this award besides the every now and then. 2601:249:1B81:1170:19CA:F072:B3CA:41 (talk) 15:40, 27 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
    • Making the Finals and losing has never been something acknowledged in the infobox, that’s about winning championships. Rightfully making the finals would be in the prose and in cases where the player article has a comprehensive list of accomplishments as a section of the article. Rikster2 (talk) 16:31, 27 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
      I strongly support the inclusion as well. The perception of the award as a relevant accolade has reached a point where even foreign media report separately on it: [2]. To say the award would have „equal validity“, as some said, is just false. Nobody discusses the inclusion of the nomination into the all-defensive second team, and yet when it comes to rewarding the Conference Finals MVP, there seems to be a problem. I support the inclusion of the award under the NBA All-x team selections. SdHb (talk) 06:29, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • Oppose, mainly because bloating the infobox with new low-level awards dilutes the value of real historically-significant awards. It blatantly violates WP:NOTEVERYTHING, WP:UNDUE and other policy clauses. It's better for a player like LeBron or Curry to have 10 well-respected awards in the infobox, rather than 20 of which half are relatively meaningless. Left guide (talk) 17:28, 27 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Put another way, adding Conference Finals MVP and Clutch Award to the infobox artificially elevates them to a status of equal validity as regular season MVP, All-Star appearances, All-NBA team selections, DPOY, and the like not seen in the real world, which is a clear case of WP:FALSEBALANCE. Left guide (talk) 01:01, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Ay, just saying, look at Twitter and the reactions from Brown winning over Tatum. Seeing a whole lot “Tatum led series in pts Rebs and assists for Celtics but brown won” tweets. People care and pay attention to this award. It’s given right after the series win on the podium in front of the crowd and national television 2601:249:1B81:1170:875:9247:423D:562A (talk) 04:32, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
People on Twitter got upset about a girl that dunked Pop Tarts in ranch dressing, that doesn't make it notable.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 04:47, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Technically, it does make it notable. Notability is determined by society, not you. 12.178.161.66 (talk) 16:22, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
stuff being on Twitter doesn’t make anything inherently notable from an encyclopedic standpoint. Rikster2 (talk) 16:28, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Your arguments are ludicrous. Two awards being in the same info-box does not in any way imply that they are of equal validity or equal esteem. And the conference finals MVP is not a "lower-level" award anyway. A player is rewarded for being the best player in the second biggest series of the year and leading their team to the finals. It also notifies people that the player has a finals appearance, which is no small feat. The award is a direct and objective measure of playoff success. Bagumba's argument-- "The less information in an info box, the better" is ridiculous too. Have you seen LeBron's infobox? Do you think his First Team Parade All-American selections or his McDonald's All-American MVP awards are more significant achievements than if he were to get a conference finals MVP? If the goal truly is to convey the most important information to the reader, direct indicators of playoff success should arguably be placed higher than All-Star selections and/or All-NBA selections. The conference finals award ought to be included in info-boxes, and it should go above or below MVP. The only sound argument against it is the fact that the award's title is so long, and therefore makes things a bit less clean and concise. 12.178.161.66 (talk) 06:32, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Your argument that it is not a "lower-level" award is baseless. The WP:BURDEN of proof is on you, and your various IPs.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 12:17, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Honors at various levels are not compared. Professional honors are considered as a set, college honors are considered as a set and high school honors are considered as a set. There are only about 5 high school highlights that go in the infobox list, a much higher percentage of NBA highlights do. In no case is every single honor included, otherwise for a player like LeBron you’d have an absurdly long infobox. The point of the infobox is not meant to include everythingRikster2 (talk) 12:30, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
I gave a thorough argument why it should be considered among the highest level of awards. I understand by "baseless" you mean I need a concrete citation supporting it. The NBA's official award history page lists the awards under "latest". They also have a page dedicated to the award here. These two pages are so available, obvious, and impossible to miss that I'm sure you have seen them already. As others have said, the NBA also officially acknowledges these awards at the end of the close-out games during the celebration. They are literally named in honor of Larry Bird and Magic Johnson. It is as close to objectively being held in high-esteem as any award. Where must the awards be listed such that they can be regarded in high enough esteem to be listed in info-boxes? Does it need to be listed on the history page under the more "official" bullet points, rather than merely under "latest"? If that's the case, where is KAT's social justice award in his info-box? Why can't I find any Twyman-Stokes Teammate of the year awards in info-boxes? Where is the Hustle award? Where is the Clutch player award? I understand that I may be straw-manning you; I'm only searching for consistency.
If I'm not understanding something, let me know. I only learned about these "talk pages" last night, and you can see I don't even have a Wikipedia account. I am just an NBA fan who wants to see players rewarded for their feats and achievements, and Conference Finals MVP awards are greater feats than 80% of the stuff typically listed in info-boxes, as well as being more telling of the player's identity because it concretely indicates playoff success. One of the first things a page visitor ought to see is that the player led his team to the finals. Put it in the info-box or no, I don't care that much. But know that these citations that you seek are a bit more arbitrary than you seem to think. 12.178.161.66 (talk) 16:14, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
I mean if we're being completely honest, is "Mr. Show-Me Basketball 2016" more applicable to an NBA's player career resume over Conference Finals MVP? If so, then so be it. "Mr. Georgia Basketball 2016" has more reason to be on here over Conference Finals MVP in the NBA? I don't know, y'all keep telling me there's a criteria this and criteria that but having stuff like Mr. Show-Me Basketball, Mr. Georgia, Serbian Player of the Year, etc... seems like that criteria is convenient based for sure.2603:300A:1618:EC00:159B:96F9:49AE:6EC8 (talk) 14:08, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Like I said, there are about 5 high school achievements that qualify for the infobox, state Mr basketball is one of them. There is already a significantly lower bar for NBA achievements, a reflection that the pro level achievements are more important. But the other thing that has always been the case for the basketball infobox is that “runner up” finishes and accomplishments intentionally weren’t added to the infobox. All that stuff is great for the prose, nobody is saying it’s useless. Rikster2 (talk) 16:07, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
I respect the reasoning for sure. I also agree that not every award or feat should be listed just because it’s relevant. However, in terms of conference finals MVP, I feel it adds more value and credibility to that specific resume or player over certain other awards or feats, just my opinion. It tells a greater story in a short and concise phrase “Conference Finals MVP” - best player in the that playoff conference essentially (not always but usually). I’ll stop with this one, I respect all the choices! 2600:1008:B0C9:A678:712B:CF7:B9CF:3C0A (talk) 17:02, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Bagumba's argument-- "The less information in an info box, the better" is ridiculous too.: It was not an "argument". It was marked "comment", and is merely a quote from a Wikipedia guideline. —Bagumba (talk) 14:38, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
+1. 2A02:3030:619:5347:61F9:1EE6:DF54:6EF8 (talk) 15:42, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • Support, the Conference Finals are significant and important series, with the NBA awarding trophies for them. The NBA recognizes these as major and important awards – there is even an award presentation at the end of the series – and Wikipedia should reflect that. H-Hurry (talk) 15:11, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • Support Thinking pragmatically, I just don't think it is productive to keep pushing back on this. It's an official award that is getting a lot of attention, and I don't feel that it's fundamentally less important than the All-Star Game MVPs or something like All-Rookie Second Team. Zagalejo (talk) 18:18, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • Support per reasons given above. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 20:23, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
I agree with this, they do the same thing with MLB when they give the MVP of the conference championship. Just because it’s a recently added award doesn’t mean you can’t added since it really has value just like with the In Season tournament championship. Agararol81 (talk) 02:14, 29 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Game 1 or game 1 edit

I've seen it both ways (including inconsistencies within individual articles) and didn't see anything in the style guidelines. When referring to a specific playoff game in a series, should it be referred to as "Game X" or "game X", where X represents the game number? Useight (talk) 15:37, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

FWIW, MOS:CAPS begins: Wikipedia avoids unnecessary capitalization. At Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League/Archive 22 § Capitalization of "Week" in "Week #" in Articles, they seem to have went with lowercase. —Bagumba (talk) 15:53, 28 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Thanks. I guess I can get to lower-casing the upper-cased ones that I find, even though I find the upper-cased version to be more aesthetically pleasing. Useight (talk) 20:19, 29 May 2024 (UTC)Reply