Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Korea/Archive 9

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KM131 Jeep

FYI, KM131 Jeep has been sent for deletion. 76.66.203.138 (talk) 07:30, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Non-English characters in dab page, article page, redirect page names, up for RfC

See WT:Article titles#Non-Roman characters in redirects to articles, where an RfC has been opened on the use of non-English characters in page titles for disambiguation and redirect titles (and there appears to also be discussion about article titles) 76.66.203.138 (talk) 09:32, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Tallest Buildings in Seoul page

Hi, I'm new here, just thought I'd update the list of tallest buildings in Seoul page. Updates were confined to Tallest under construction, proposed, or approved section. Added 3 buildings, took off 2 stale proposals, changed status of some buildings to site preparation (not sure if that's an acceptable category); all references are skyscraper city pages that have fairly recent photographs of construction sites. If anyone thinks these edits are not acceptable, please let me know. Also, Dream Tower proposal has been revised down to ~500m tower with ~100 floors, though the webpage is in Korean, so I'm unable to verify. Aquaticko (talk) 04:09, 13 December 2010 (UTC)aquaticko

Proposed deletion of Mipo Stadium

The article Mipo Stadium has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

A search for references found no support for this article, fails WP:N and WP:V

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Jeepday (talk) 13:04, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

MILHIST task force restructuring

Greetings from the Military history WikiProject! In recent months, we have been working on transfering our project task forces into a standardized style, in order to make them more readable and user friendly, especially for new editors. We have also been redirecting the talk pages of those task forces to our main project talk page. The latter is partially because many of the posts on the task force pages are duplicates of those on the main talk page. It is also partially because the main talk page has many more watchers than the individual task force pages, and so discussions will have more input and queries will be less likely to become "lost" or otherwise go unanswered. You can see a sample of the new style and the talk page redirection at Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Australia, New Zealand and South Pacific military history task force or many of our other task forces. We would like to do the same to the Korean military history taskforce. However, as this is located at Wikipedia:WikiProject Korea/Military history, which is part of this project's space, we would like to make sure there is no objection to us changing the style or redirecting the talk page. We would also be willing to move the task force into our project's space, with a redirect from your project's space, if that is preferable. Dana boomer (talk) 22:08, 7 January 2011 (UTC), on behalf of the coordinators of the Military history WikiProject.

Sounds good. NativeForeigner ^Talk/_Contribs 01:48, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Stub type

Greetings! A stub template or category which you created has been nominated for renaming or deletion at Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion. The stub type most likely doesn't meet Wikipedia requirements for a stub type, through failure to meet standards relating to the name, scope, current stub hierarchy or likely size, as explained at Wikipedia:Stub. Please feel free to make any comments at WP:SFD regarding this stub type, and in future, please consider proposing new stub types first at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals! This message is boilerplate, left here as a courtesy, and should not be considered personal in nature.

Nominating {{Korea-sports-venue-stub}} for deletion. There are already separate templates for the two countries: {{NorthKorea-sports-venue-stub}}, {{SouthKorea-sports-venue-stub}}. Dawynn (talk) 19:47, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

template:RevisedRoman

{{RevisedRoman}} has been nominated for deletion. 65.93.14.196 (talk) 04:42, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Template:Republic of Korea Navy

{{Republic of Korea Navy}} has been nominated for deletion. 65.93.14.196 (talk) 05:03, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Category:Korean rail stubs‎/Template:Korea-rail-stub

Feel free to discuss the splitting of this stub type at Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion/Log/2011/January/19. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 07:45, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Sunan Airport and Air Koryo

Does anyone know if Air Koryo has its own head office building at Sunan Airport, or if the airline's offices are in the airport terminal? WhisperToMe (talk) 01:44, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Lim Ki-Han at AfD

This could use a couple eyes from someone relatively fluent in Korean to find a WP:RS and save. Any help warmly appreciated, even the appropriate name translation into Korean would be of use. Best, --joe decker^{talk to me} 06:28, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Northeast Asia

Northeast Asia is suffering from East Sea / Sea of Japan issues. 184.144.166.85 (talk) 12:21, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Reviving discussion on Sea of Japan East Sea naming convention

I am reviving a discussion on the naming usage of Sea of Japan and East Sea. See Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Korean)/Disputed names. Chunbum Park (talk) 06:32, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Busan 2020 Summer Olympics bid

Hi. In lieu of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Busan bid for the 2020 Summer Olympics, perhaps someone who can read Korean could take a look at www.2020busan.org and add any relevant information there to the article Busan bid for the 2020 Summer Olympics. Thanks, Arsenikk ^(talk) 20:17, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Pak Tongjin (musician)

The article Pak Tongjin (musician) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Long-term unreferenced biography of a living person. No sources found, nor any evidence to support claim to notability (which is repeated - also unsourced - at Music of Korea). He's not listed as "famous" in the Pansori article, nor at ko.wikipedia

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. CharlieDelta (talk) 14:06, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Category:Korean building and structure stubs and Category:Korean sports venue stubs

Greetings! Two or more stub types which you created have been nominated for renaming or deletion at Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion. The stub type most likely doesn't meet Wikipedia requirements for a stub type, through failure to meet standards relating to the name, scope, current stub hierarchy or likely size, as explained at Wikipedia:Stub. Please feel free to make any comments at WP:SFD regarding this stub type, and in future, please consider proposing new stub types first at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals! This message is a boilerplate, left here as a courtesy, and should not be considered personal in nature. Dawynn (talk) 14:28, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Duplicated stuff for the same station

Should be merged in one article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seoul_National_University_Station http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seoul_Nat%27l._Univ._of_Education_Station

Dabisu (talk) 17:29, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

need help

I'm writen an article about Microsoft Mobile Explorer (draft at User:mabdul/Microsoft Mobile Explorer) and babelfish and google don't translate enough the korean press release by MS. Can somebody help me and give me a brief what the content is? the press release mabdul 18:22, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Request for help at Yi Chung

In the process of trying to add sources to unreferenced BLPs, I came across this Prince's entry, which is both unsourced and has what look like valid sources at the Korean wikipedia entry on him. However, not speaking Korean, and automated translation being as bad as it is, I'm a bit stuck, I would be very, very appreciative if someone could find at least one useful source for this Prince (via the KRWIKI entry or elsewhere) and add it to the Prince's entry. Thanks in advance, best, --joe decker^{talk to me} 17:54, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Request for help at B1A4, article under AfD Review

Greetings! The above-referenced article is under discussion at AfD. I've tentatively voted !keep right now, based on the band's chart position on the Gaon and Melon charts and some indication that they're in rotation. However, those criteria of WP:BAND are generally only indicative of notability. I'm hoping someone more familiar with Korea can take a look at the sources at B1A4 and advise if they are reliable and constitute significant, independent coverage of the type that would establish notability. If you take this up, please feel free to post findings at the AfD or on my talk page. Thank you!!! ɠǀɳ̩ςεΝɡbomb 20:54, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Need help with an editor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Koreans#Disclaimer_Discussion

The ip refuses to acknowledge that a google image search [1], a forum discussion [2], and a self-published article on personal website [3], are not reliable sources. I've already said the automated "this is in violation of WP:SYN, WP:OR blah blah blah". I really don't know how else to say it or what to do. I'm getting this feeling he's brushing me off because I'm not a administrator and I cant enforce anything. I would really appreciate a another eye on this. Thank you. —KaraKamilia (talk) 05:33, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Help trying to find Korean version of accident report

Hi! I found http://www.icao.int/FSIX/sr/reports/02000710_final_report.pdf This is the English version, but I need the Korean version of the Air China Flight 129 accident report Thanks, WhisperToMe (talk) 23:10, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Pure blood theory in Korea or Korean ethnic nationalism?

There is continuing controversy on whether the title Pure blood theory in Korea is appropriate. The disagreement is whether the title Pure blood theory in Korea is NPOV, and whether the reliable sources referenced in the article cover this subject under the term Pure blood theory or ethnic nationalism. Cydevil38 (talk) 23:16, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

I think it should be removed, not changed its title.--Historiographer (talk) 23:32, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Korean calligraphy : Stub

Please ! some help to expand and find the korean's article ; ] Yug (talk) 15:23, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

The Calligraphy Gallery in the National Museum of Korea explains about this.--Historiographer (talk) 23:34, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Samguk Sagi

I would like to get your attention regards this article. It placing a big emphasis to discredit the author Kim Busik than focus on the book itself? I have no idea if the critique is valid or not, but the article seems bias since the lack of reference and sources of the statements.
– Oppa ^talk –  15:46, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

korean telecommunications

with the telecommunications company called olleh kt, are you only allowed by the company to call 3 different phone numbers? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.213.205.121 (talk) 15:24, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Need a third party to look at a dispute

Would be helpful to have an uninvolved editor look at the Jaerock Lee (currently it's just me and one of Jaerock Lee's followers) and decide whether the following belongs in the WP:LEDE or not:

Lee's ministry is controversial, and he has been accused of being a cult leader.

And in general to look over all of the Korean-language citations in the article to see which of them are really neutral, independent sources. Thanks, cab (call) 04:41, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Genealogy of sinitic scripts

Genealogy of sinitic scripts has been nominated for deletion. 65.94.47.63 (talk) 05:31, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Wokou

Wokou is requested to be renamed to Wakō, see Talk:Wokou. This moves the article from the Chinese name to the Japanese name, for pirates of Japanese extraction who attacked Korea and China. The Korean term is Waegu. 65.94.47.63 (talk) 05:59, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

To be a bit more precise, there is an ongoing rename discussion at Talk:Wokou as to whether the article should be renamed from "Wokou" to "Wako". If you are familiar with the topic, feel free to join the discussion. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 04:49, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Naming discussion regarding Korean ethnicity article

Readers of this page may be interested in a discussion at Talk:Pure blood theory in Korea#Requested move. Cheers. -GTBacchus^(talk) 23:04, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

I just realized this is redundant with a section shortly above. I guess this is just a reminder that it hasn't been sorted out, and we could still use more input. I've cross-posted at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sociology and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Genetics. -GTBacchus^(talk) 23:06, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Tagging

So, I've been informed I should seek permission to tag articles to your project. Should I tag these articles with the WPKOREA banner?

• Korea national American football team
• Korea national basketball team

65.93.15.213 (talk) 07:12, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Translation help

Could anyone please translate the following Korean sentences to English?

1. publisher=한국민족문화대백과

   quote=밥에 여러 가지 속을 넣고 김으로 말아 싼 음식. "일본음식 김초밥에서 유래된 것으로" 우리 나라에서는 근대 이후에 많이 먹기 시작한 것으로 추측된다. 김밥은 초밥을 만들어 싸는 방법과 초밥이 아닌 맨밥으로 싸는 경우가 있는데, 밥을 잘 짓는 것이 중요하다.[4]

2. title=우리 문화 길라 잡이: 한국인 이 꼭 알아야할 전통 문화 233가지

   quote=한국 에서는 해초 인 김 을 펴 말려 종이 처럼 가공 하여 먹는데 김밥 은 이 김 위에 밥 을 曾 게 펴 놓고 그 위에 여러 가지 반찬 을 올려 놓은 후 둘둘 말아 싼 음식 이다 . "일본 음식 인 김초밥 에서 유래 한 것으로" 한국인 들은 근대 이후 부터 ts만들어 먹었다 . 김밥 을 만들 때는 무엇 보다도 밥 을 잘 지어야 하는데 질지 않게 지어쌀알 의 모양 이 그대로 유지 되게 해야 한다 . 이렇게 만들어진 밥 을 그대로 사용 하기도 ...[5]

   author=국립국어연구원

   publisher=학고재

3. quote=김밥은 밥에 여러 가지 속을 넣고 김으로 말아 싼 음식으로 일본음식에서 유래된 것으로 보이며 우리나라에서는 근대 이후에 많이 먹기 시작한 것으로 추측된다. [6]

―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 08:46, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

publish = Korea Civilization & Culture Encyclopedia quote" It's a food made from wrapped laver sewaweed and a few things placed with rice. "It came from Japan's style of raw fish & fish" In modern times it's been eaten increasingly more. Kimbap can be made with the method featuring wrapping with raw fish or without wrapping involved - however it each case it's important to prepare this food well"

title= Our Culture from the Killa Era: 233 Things about Traditional Culture Koreans Must Know quote =

author= The National Institute of the Korean Language publisher=Hakgojae quote=Kimbap is a food made from wrapped laver sewaweed and a few things placed with rice inside. In modern times it's been eaten increasingly more. Gnilloc (talk) 02:31, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

help with Eatyourkimchi sources

The article Eatyourkimchi is at Articles for deletion. I've found two English language news sources and what I think is a Korean news source at [7]. Could somebody who reads Korean please take a look? Cloveapple (talk) 18:12, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

서울특별시 is not Seoul Special City, but Seoul Metropolitan Government in English

I wrote about this in 2007, but many Wikipedians were indifferent. Therefore, I raise objection to the wrong name "Special City."

서울특별시 means Seoul Special City literally, but the Government of the Republic of Korea named its English name Seoul Metropolitan Government. This is the trustworthy evidence.

Of course, 서울특별시's shorten name 서울시 is translated into Seoul City. 서울특별시청 or 서울시청 is translated into Seoul Metropolitan Government (meaning the local authority) or Seoul City Hall (meaning the building).

I strongly suggest that replace "special city" and "Seoul Special City" with "metropolitan government" and "Seoul Metropolitan Government" respectively. ― Yes0song 16:40, 18 July 2011 (UTC) I canceled this suggestion (reason). I will suggest an alternative soon. --Yes0song (talk) 11:03, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Does the *ahem* metropolitan/city government have a website available with an English translation we can copy? Nightw 09:03, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Doing the following converting (some words) "special city" and "Seoul Special City" with "metropolitan government" and "Seoul Metropolitan Government" - because it makes sense to me. I also agree about the english website if they have one in english. Adamdaley (talk) 10:09, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

This is the official English website of Seoul. "Seoul Metropolitan Government" is rendered on the bottom of page. There is the only metropolitan government in Korea, it's Seoul. (Metropolitan cities are 광역시s such as Busan, and this is correctly described in English Wikipedia.) ― Yes0song 10:20, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

These are the symbols of Seoul, and there are "서울특별시" and "Seoul Metropolitan Government". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yes0song (talk • contribs) 12:04, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

• Yes, change to "Seoul Metropolitan Government" - WP should use the English translation that Koreans themselves use when translating into English. Sometimes that is not the literal translation, particularly when the literal translation is confusing or stilted. Google hit counts show many more for "Seoul Metropolitan Government" than for "Special City". Of course, the article can include the literal translation, as in " 서울특별시 (Seoul Metropolitan Government, literally "Seoul Special City") ..." --Noleander (talk) 20:09, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Report I questioned this to the Korean Government through the Internet. Let's wait for the official answer. ― Yes0song 07:45, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Seoul Metropolitan Government is the best choice when saying something like "[Seoul Special City] plans to host this event next year...." or "[Seoul Special City] says they have no plans to expand the Cheongkyecheon (creek). You are all right. Seoul Special City is a correct translation but is limited to very specific conversations about the dynamics of the city. Metropolitan Government would be the choice for translation or news articles, press releases or something like subtitles of korean media to English. Source? I am a Korean/English translator. Gnilloc (talk) 02:39, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Withdrawal

Report I withdraw the suggestion above because I received a answer from the local authority of Seoul. According to this, the "Seoul Metropolitan Government" is the name of the local government, not the area itself. I questioned more specifically, and I am waiting for the answers. After receiving the answer, I will describe the data I researched and suggest an alternative proposal based on it. Please wait for some more days. --Yes0song (talk) 11:03, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Open page move discussions

• (Discuss) – Yi Seok, Prince of Korea → Yi Seok
• (Discuss) – Gu, Prince Imperial Hoeun → Yi Ku Kauffner (talk) 14:59, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Wanted: Korean speaker

If anyone who speaks Korean would be interested in a long term, low involvement project, Prostitution in South Korea needs to be watched by someone who can evaluate Korean language sources that are occasionally added that appear to be, er, unhelpful. Will exchange for copy-editing; both Google translate and I are not competent to perform this task. --Danger (talk) 02:30, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Yi Ku or Yi Gu?

Readers here may be interested in commenting on a titling discussion at Talk:Gu, Prince Imperial Hoeun#Requested move: Yi Ku. Cheers. -GTBacchus^(talk) 04:14, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Request: Erase "Seoul Special City" because it is the literal meaning not the official name in English

Related discussion: #서울특별시 is not Seoul Special City, but Seoul Metropolitan Government in English

1. Seoul Metropolitan Government = Local government of Seoul
2. "Seoul" or "Seoul City" itself = Name of the city in English. This is the official name in English.
3. "Seoul Special City" = literal meaning of the Korean name. NEVER USED officially.

They can be confirmed by the official answer from the Seoul Metropolitan Government.

Additionally, teukbyeolsi as an administrative unit in the Local Autonomy Act (지방자치법/地方自治法) is translated as "Special Metropolitan City" by the Korea Legislation Research Institute, a government-invested research institution. However, it can't be applied to the English name of Seoul because the local names are regulated by the local authority not the central government. It can be confirmed by the official answer from the Ministry of Public Administration and Security.

For detail, see User:Yes0song/Administrative_divisions_of_the_Republic_of_Korea. The official answers can be read in my blog (written in Korean). --Yes0song (talk) 07:17, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

• Question - Is there a specific issue to be decided here? Is there a choice to be made? If so, to which article? Or are you just posting some information that may be useful to the project? If the latter, maybe it should not be an RfC. --Noleander (talk) 16:57, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Translation request

Would someone who can translate something into Korean for me please leave me a note on my talk page? I need to contact a user on Korean Wikipedia, so I need a translation. Thank you. Pine^talk 08:43, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

File- and Disambig-Class Korea-related articles categories

I recently came across Category:File-Class Korea-related articles and Category:Disambig-Class Korea-related articles, both of which were empty. According to this discussion, it seems that the categories were created in a unilateral decision and have never officially been used by the {{WikiProject Korea}} template. Would this WikiProject support the use of these categories, or do their inclusion not seem to be merited? — ξ^xplicit 20:55, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

They seem like a good idea to me, since it would make NA-class much cleaner. 70.24.247.40 (talk) 04:43, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Source about Korean genetics

I found a source about Korean genetics:

• Shim, Jae-woo and Kim Hyung-eun. "What makes a Korean Korean?" Korea Joongang Daily. September 9, 2011.

WhisperToMe (talk) 06:21, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Korean temple infoboxes

Hi all. The template used on all of the temples listed here use the Template:Infobox Korean name template. This is intended for names, not templates, and as such all the wikilinks are pretty inappropriate. The Template:Infobox temple could be used, or a new template could be made; as is they're just plain wrong! Nikthestoned 10:14, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't see what the problem is, the temple has a name, the name is in Korean, therefore, the Korean name template is appropriate. It might not be the most appropriate template to use, or it might be best to use it in conjunction with the temple template, but using it by itself does not seem inappropriate at all, just incomplete. 76.65.128.90 (talk) 06:51, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Tigers in South Korea

I was stationed in South Korea at Camp Stanley in the eastern corridor of the country in the mid-70's. One day I took a hike up into the mountains about 4-5 miles nortwest of the camp, where I came upon a HUGE tiger pawprint in the dirt! Needless to say I didn't stick around to see if there were any other tiger signs. They say there are no tigers left in South Korea! Iknow better!!

Michael Wood — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.8.18.136 (talk) 23:29, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Me2day translation

Can anybody translate ko:미투데이? Jay2kx (talk) 16:46, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

May coup article

I'm currently writing an extended article on the May 16 coup (since the current one is rather lacking) at User:Tyrannus Mundi/May Coup. I have only just begun, and would appreciate any advice from participants here on what to write and whether what I've written so far is adequate. --Tyrannus Mundi (talk) 15:48, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Big change at high importance template Template:Infobox Chinese

For all those interested, there's a rather big change applied to this infobox (see last section talkpage) with removing and unhiding fields. --Cold Season (talk) 22:06, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Korea in Commons

Wouldn't it be a good idea to have its presence in Commons? Considering I noticed contributors trying to upload pictures but getting them deleted because they don't understand what they did wrong. I think there should be some kind of task force that would help find pictures with the correct CC license. I already proposed it in the Commons:WikiProject Council but it might take a while since there is only 2 members (1 semi-active). However, if enough people are interested, we should start it ourselves. 제이2케이엑스 (talk) 14:36, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Korea on Commons Jae ₩on (Deposit) 18:26, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

You should add it to {{Wikipedia:WikiProject Korea/Navigation}} . 70.24.248.23 (talk) 05:36, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Elections in pre-1948 Korea

I'm currently working on elections around the world, and during a discussion about "missing" elections, I had a thought about Korea. Currently we have {{North Korean elections}} and {{South Korean elections}}, which I believe are largely complete. However, I was wondering if there were any elections prior to 1948 - i.e. during the Joseon/Empire/Japanese occupation periods. Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks, Number 57 12:57, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Japanese occupation periods mayors and assembly members were errected by Koreans like as Taiwan. Park Chungeum ko:박춘금 was errected as a Imperial House of Representatives lawmaker from tokyo, but limited people who lived japanese mainland. Most of koreans lived in Korean peninsula. however many noble koreans had their seats in Imperial House of Peers. But I dont know english good sources.--Syngmung (talk) 16:10, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Egg ghost

The article Egg ghost is up for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Egg ghost. Editors with knowledge of Korean mythology are badly needed to determine whether this ghost is notable and whether references exist to reliable sources discussing the ghost. Thanks. --NellieBly (talk) 07:33, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Help

Can somebody look at the M.I.B (band) article and explain what:

• References aren't reliable sources
• Part of the article seems like advertising

Because the person, who tagged it, hasn't even explained why or given me hints on what to fix. Thank you. Jae ₩on (Deposit) 16:47, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

I've re-removed the tags; I think Mike Wazkowski was wrong to replace them. Allkpop seems to meet WP:RS, and I'm willing to AGF that the Korean sites also meet it. I did leave the notability tags, as I'm not entirely certain that the coverage, though extensive, is enough to justify them as notable. It most likely does, but I'm not comfortable making the call myself being unable to read Korean. If anyone has/can read Korean pop charts, and could show that their album charted, that would be a big help. Qwyrxian (talk) 00:13, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. The Korean sites that come after the allkpop sites are the sources that allkpop used. Anyways, you were a big help. Jae ₩on (Deposit) 01:12, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Visibility of Liancourt Rocks

I'm not trying to puppet you. I just want to get your attentions that a visibility related debate is under way at Liancourt Rocks. I want to listen your opinions. --Cheol (talk) 16:17, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Korean language working group

I'm also a member of WikiProject Linguistics, and I'd like to create a Korean language work group to improve articles related to Korean language and grammar. Who's in? JohnDavidWard (talk) 22:44, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

That sounds good. A joint workgroup between WPKorea and some other linguistics project? We seem to be missing such projects/workgroups/task forces... even though we have articles on them for various languages. 76.65.128.198 (talk) 07:48, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Picture help

Can anybody check this (picture) to make sure the summary is good. Jae ₩on (Deposit) 18:55, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Infobox kdrama template

I noticed Template:Infobox kdrama isn't used much. It was suggested to be deleted in 2008 since then only 18 articles are linked to it. How about we change each articles' infobox from kdrama to Template:Infobox television? Since then, television has added language for not english shows to the infobox. Good idea? Jae ₩on (Deposit) 03:11, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

 Done Completely converted all 19 of them. Jae ₩on (Deposit) 01:04, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Korean language report of Air China 123

Hi! Where can I find a Korean language version report of Air China Flight 123? I found the English version at http://web.archive.org/web/20061017200424/152.99.129.24/eng/board/view.jsp?id=4 But where is the Korean version? Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 04:39, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

C-Real needs help

If anybody can help this article by adding more information to it. If not, find somebody who will be able to. I saw on articles for deletion, not sure how long it will be until deletion. Jae ₩on (Deposit) 03:02, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

ANI Report

There is an ANI Report at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Need_a_Korean_speaker looking for somebody who speaks Korean to help resolve some issues involving a Korean user. If you can write Korean, your help would be appreciated.---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 03:15, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Template:Me2day

The template is being discussed for deletion about and the usage was noticed. If anybody sees articles using regular links to Me2day, use the template instead. Jae ₩on (Deposit) 16:50, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Band v. Group

We need to debate on the naming of articles that are labeled bands and groups. There are girl groups with the title of band when clearly they are a girl group and not a band. There is a difference between a boy band and hip hop group. I noticed contributors changing without proposing the move and contributors who disagree with the move. There needs to be a clear understanding of the meanings to avoid edit wars. Jae ₩on (Deposit) 14:56, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Agreed, plus sometimes when an article is moved, you can't move it back to the correct form because the other page already exists as a redirect page. It's very contradictory for you to write something like f(x) (band) and then in the first line say "f(x) is a South-Korean girl group", therefore there needs to be a pattern to be followed, since as a musician, a group is only composed of singers whereas a band is composed of players and possibly singers. F.T. Island, Swimming Fish, C.N. Blue and Rumble Fish are bands obviously, whereas all IDOL GROUPS, are groups and not bands. This type of edit could become as troublesome as edit wars over members' positions if there isn't an agreement. Chocolat ≈ Dubulge (Chat Me Up) 17:34, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Korean name help

Hi! What is the RR and M-R for "삼국지: 용의 부활" (Three Kingdoms: Resurrection of the Dragon)?

Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 21:43, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Ask Rickinasia. Jae ₩on (Deposit) 23:28, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the suggestion! WhisperToMe (talk) 00:42, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome. Jae ₩on (Deposit) 04:46, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Korean article

Hi folks, I've been working on Prosperity theology (currently a featured article candidate) and someone pointed out this source to me. Is there a way that you could tell me what his basic conclusion is? I think he argues that the effects of the war have caused people to embrace the movement (having had lots of material lack before they are drawn to something that promises no lack). Is this someone you can help me with? Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 23:52, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Requesting EAST SEA, not sea of Japan.

I am a user of Wikipedia and have been benefiting from the plentiful information it provides for many years. However, I cannot help express my disappointment and disapproval at the fact that there is little knowledge about the truth about East Sea, the sea that lies on the east of Korean peninsula and west of Japan. In the article 'Taebaek Mountains', this sea is mentioned as 'Sea of Japan (East Sea'. There is certainly something wrong with the order of the names put. East Sea, not sea of Japan, should come first, and the latter should not even appear as an official name. East Sea has been historically known by the name Sea of Korea by people in ancient times, until Japanese imperialists invaded Korea and annexed it, taking away the sovereignty and renaming the sea with the baseless name of sea of Japan. Even centuries ago, many old European maps described this sea as Korean Sea, as in the case of France, which described it as Mer de Coree. Japan has nothing to do with the East Sea, therefore this wrong and baseless name should be immediately removed from this article and replaced with 'East Sea' used centuries ago. There are plenty of archaeological evidence to support this fact, not a claim. Korea is not claiming an ownership of this sea, but merely demanding the international society to realize that truth has been distorted and Wikipedia has failed to provide millions of users with historically accurate information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Megaluck (talk • contribs) 11:17, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

The East Sea is the East China Sea, per traditional East Asian naming. So using "East Sea" as the name of the Korean Sea would be controversial. East Korean Sea would at least indicate relativity. (remembering that there's the West Korean Sea that is also sometimes used... and that "West Sea" is also used to refer to the Atlantic Ocean, and the Pacific Ocean, though not by Koreans or East Asians) Though the Indian Ocean is the East Asian "West Sea". But if you're Vietnamese, the East Sea is the South China Sea. 70.49.124.157 (talk) 05:35, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Template:Vertical text RTL

FYI, {{Vertical text RTL}} is under development at WT:JAPAN for traditional text that is oriented vertically, from right to left. 70.49.124.157 (talk) 05:39, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

WikiWomen's History Month

Hi everyone. March is Women's History Month and I'm hoping a few folks here at WP:Korea will have interest in putting on events (on and off wiki) related to women's roles in Korea's history, society and culture. We've created an event page on English Wikipedia (please translate!) and I hope you'll find the inspiration to participate. These events can take place off wiki, like edit-a-thons, or on wiki, such as themes and translations. Please visit the page here: WikiWomen's History Month. Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to seeing events take place! SarahStierch (talk) 21:31, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

ARAIB management offices

About the ARAIB management offices.

Apparently the Korean website says it is at "157-240 서울시 강서구 하늘길 221(공항동 1373번지) 2층" - that seems to differ from the English address (281, Gonghang-dong, Gangseo-gu, Seoul, Republic. of Korea 157-815) - And the Korean and the English pages show different office addresses. Did the ARAIB offices move? WhisperToMe (talk) 21:48, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Now, I am also trying to find a Korean language report about the Air China crash at http://araib.mltm.go.kr/USR/airboard0201/m_34497/lst.jsp - The crash occurred on April 15, 2002 to B-2552 Air China Flight 129 - The list does have reports from the predecessor agency, the KAIB, so I hope the Air China report is there WhisperToMe (talk) 01:37, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Hangul

Hello,

Could someone help me with the Hangul for 風蘭 (pungnan) The page is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neofinetia

감사합니다

Cypella (talk) 08:45, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

 Done :) --Chulki Lee (talk) 03:12, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

East Asian calligraphy?

East Asian calligraphy has been proposed to be renamed to Chinese calligraphy, see Talk:East Asian calligraphy

70.24.251.71 (talk) 08:19, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Knowledgeable input needed on WP:RS/N

We need some help from people familiar with Korean media at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Soompi. Thanks in advance. Mangoe (talk) 14:30, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

South Korean Space Program - Needs updating badly

This article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_Aerospace_Research_Institute

Appears to have not been updated for some time, as it says that "a launch is expected in 2009." Can someone who knows anything at all about this program and its current activities update it? I only noticed this because I have no knowledge of the program and was hoping to find out what is going on in Korea with space research.

14.53.183.65 (talk) 01:13, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Translating the English Wikipedia into English

In recent days I have stumbled upon more articles covered under the scope of this project than usual. Having just recently taken this subject up with another WikiProject, I am highly-sensative to the issue of having to use a translation service to read Wikipages here. What I found was not as bad as the pages associated with the other project but still teetered on my definition of extreme. Simply put, I should not have to use a translation service to translate the English Wikipedia into English.

I'm seeing reference sections written primarily, if not entirely in Korean. This won't fly with me unless someone can point me to where this is sanctioned. In my efforts to fact check, I find myself having to mouseover the links to read the URL of the references. I'm sure most will agree, URLs are not the best guide in determining what content is there. Having references to Korean language pages is not an issue and I do understand they often provide the best reference to the information in question. I can easily enough use a translation service once I'm there, IF I choose to go there. Many times I can read the reference title and publisher and know right off the bat that the information has a very high probability of being correct, thus reasoning my time is probably better spent moving on to something else.

It is my sincere desire not to have to tag articles or sections for translation and follow up with submission to AfD, that approach seems counter-productive and I sense it will only lead to the prompt translation anyway. Simply, I believe it would be better if this project's members held translation to English paramount in their thoughts. While some Korean is within reason and is sanctioned by Wikipedia, wholly dual-language pages are not to the best of my knowledge. There should be no reason for everything on an article's page to have both the Korean text AND its English translation. It makes the pages confusing and difficult to follow. I do understand there are certain editors who are primarily responsible for this and that it is not a result of all this project's members. I for one am glad to have the opportunity to learn more about Korea and its culture and from the sampling I've seen, each article appears to meet or exceed Wikipedia's criteria with the sole exception of translation. Any comments? Ken Tholke (talk) 21:15, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

I think it's WP:POINTy to nominate an article for deletion when it uses WP:RS, simply because you can't read the title in the references section. Just slap a need translation on it. I do think making a listing here at WP:KOREA might be a good idea, for pointing out articles that need the citation information translated. I do however think that the original title should be indicated in the citation (in the original Korean) since there can be inaccuracies and ambiguities in the English translation, and ofcourse, any translated title will not be the actual title of the source. 70.24.251.71 (talk) 06:31, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're getting at here; as far as I'm aware, references in other languages don't need to be translated into English. Ask someone who speaks Korean to verify the source for you if you're unable to do so yourself. --Tyrannus Mundi (talk) 15:01, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

I see now you're referring to title translation, but like 70.24.251.71 said AfD is a bit much --Tyrannus Mundi (talk) 15:05, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

RM: Choi Soo-young → Sooyoung (entertainer)

• (Discuss) – Choi Soo-young → Sooyoung (entertainer) Kauffner (talk) 10:57, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Ordering of first and family names for Koreans

We should discuss how to be consistent in the ordering of first and family names for Koreans. In some cases the family name comes first (like in original Korean style), while in others it is the opposite. For instance, if you read the entry on "Koreagate", the methods are mixed inside the same paragraph or sentence: Tongsun Park (First then Family), Sun Myung Moon (First then Family), Kim Hyung Wook (Family then First), Chung Il Kwon (Family then First).

I've heard people refer to Ban Ki Moon (the UN secretary general) as Mr Moon, while his family name is Ban.

Any ideas? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fyzixx (talk • contribs) 01:43, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

First, WP:UCN&WP:UE -- "Ban Ki Moon" will always be that way, "Sun Myung Moon" will always be that way. ; then for people who rarely or mostly inconsistently appear in English, we'd need to come up with a standard. I suggest family name first, given name second for people inside of Korea and historical personages, for people living outside of East Asia (like Korean-Americans), use standard English order - given name first and family name last. 70.24.247.54 (talk) 04:23, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

That sounds reasonable to me WhisperToMe (talk) 21:48, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

The English name actually used by the Korean in question should however be used in preference to mechanical transcription into Revised Romanization, since it's the former that will be reported in the media in any case -- regardless of how notable they are. --Tyrannus Mundi (talk) 23:14, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Absolutely surreal discussion on Talk:Jamie Chung

Can someone please explain to these people that "제이미 정" is not a "Korean name" and remove it from the article along with the fake "hanja"? 61.18.170.111 (talk) 01:39, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

I am the one who found the Korean name for it on Naver. That is how it is pronounced for not English users. Jae ₩on (Deposit) 16:07, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

That is not a "Korean name"; that is a name transcribed into Korean. For example, the Naver page for Joseph Stalin gives his name as 이오시프 스탈린 but this does not mean that 이오시프 스탈린 is a "Korean name" deserving that infobox. In any case I hope that after the belabored argument on the talk page this has now been settled. --Tyrannus Mundi (talk) 23:10, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

North Korean party propaganda as WP's voice?

Colleagues, could I raise the alarm that some North Korean–related articles have been peppered with statements that resemble the simple-minded pap that characterised Soviet-era government posters; but this kind of text is not directly quoted, so looks like WP's voice. I stumbled on this practice through gnoming for date-format harmonisations.

Here are just two examples:

• Korean Central Television: "the people achieved great success in the spirit of self-reliance and hard work ... The Korea Television Broadcasting Station for Education and Culture give various information needed in people’s practical life. These information programs help workers to raise their knowledge levels of science, technology and culture and cultivate their sprits of national identity and patriotism." [I suspect this is a straight copy from the station's Korean-language website. Some of the worst bits I've removed.]
• June 15th North–South Joint Declaration: "In accordance with the noble will of the entire people who yearn for the peaceful reunification of the nation, ..." [The rest of the article is pretty factual, and this "noble will of the people" thing was probably taken from the preamble, but there are no quotation marks, and it looks like en.WP's voice. We need to be more careful or we'll look very silly. No sign of whether the "text" of the declaration is a straight translation by an independent party (like a WPian), or is an official English-language version ... and there are no quotation marks!!!]

I think an audit is required of the North Korean articles to ensure that proper encyclopedic tone is substituted. There's also quite a way to go on verifications. Is anyone in a position to do something about this? Tony (talk) 03:05, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Our North Korea coverage is some of the worst on the site, I think, thanks to persistent lack of good sourcing. We may have fewer articles to audit than we think. —Ed!^(talk) 19:48, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

That the quote taken from the latter article is indeed a quote from the declaration is marked by its indentation -- consult the Manual of Style, which says that an indented block quote should be used in preference to quotation marks. The source of the quotation is given directly under it, and a quick check confirms that it is indeed the official English version. --Tyrannus Mundi (talk) 23:16, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Mass-produced biographical stubs?

Hallo, I am a regular stub-sorter and I keep finding Korean biographical stubs which have a lot of problems in common.

• They include both {{stub}} and {{Korea-bio-stub}}, which wastes my time as a stub-sorter as they appear in Category:Stubs and I have to edit them to remove the unnecessary {{stub}}
• The lead sentence is on the lines of "Kim Seok-ju and Kim Suk-ju(korean:김석주, hanja:金錫冑, 1634 - 1684) was korean Joseon Dynastys Neo Confucian scholars, politicians and writer." - as if the information is coming from some external reference work where there is a heading "Scholars, Politicians and Writers", and the article is written by someone who does not know enough English to use capital "K" for "Korean" and "of the Joseon Dynasty" for "Joseon Dynastys". Or "Dynasty's".
• Dates are all linked, which is not correct
• The section headings are often confused: "Work Book", "site web", "refrence", etc.

I have found stubs like this from many different editors, which makes me think there is a template or "model article" somewhere from which these are being mass-produced.

Could someone find and correct this source, I wonder? Examples (linked to the state in which initial editor left them) include:

• Kim Seok-ju (created today by User:Nixten),
• Seong Hon (better English but still two stubs and linked numbers in dates, still "Site web" for "External links"), created 23 Jan by User:Ekffkddl
• Wang Ja-ji, created 14 January by User:Dixtor.
• and many others, going back some time I think.. eg
• Kim Dam, created 26 November 2011 by User:Jddbc

It looks as if either one person is editing under multiple usernames, or a group of people are using the same very poor template or model in creating their articles.

Please look into this. If it continues I will have to take it to WP:ANI or somewhere because there are too many very poor stubs being created and causing cleanup work for other editors. Thanks. PamD 17:39, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

I'll look at them and see what I can do. Usually Korean stubs are created by new contributors who don't read the rules or don't care as long as they create articles of their favorite people. Jae ₩on (Deposit) 19:16, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. These all seem to be Joseon dynasty people, it's not a problem with pop stars or sportspeople! Good luck. PamD 19:26, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

There's another one today: Kim Ikhun. New editor User:판델라, and their first edit is to produce this markup-heavy article in the standard mould: linked dates, labelled as both {{stub}} and {{Korea-bio-stub}} from the first edit, garbled grammar in lead, etc. What is going on here? Please will someone find out and get it stopped? PamD 14:27, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Wow, these poor historical people turning into stubs. Thanks for the update. Jae ₩on (Deposit) 15:28, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

And Song Jun-gil by User:Tarantius who, unusually, seems to have edited other articles in the past, as far back as 2010. PamD 18:15, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

And Yi Cheol-seung by User:森上. Has some student group been given a project of creating a Wikipedia article each on a Joseon Dynasty person, and then given very poor tuition in how to do so? PamD 20:12, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

And Yi Jae-hyun by User:Tarantius, who has not taken on board any of my comments on their previous contribution, nor replied to my enquiry as to where these poor articles are coming from. PamD 14:11, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

I have raised this at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Poor_Korean_biographical_stubs_which_seem_to_come_from_a_model_or_template. It's gone on long enough. PamD 14:24, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

• And they continue: Heo Jeok from User:518fokdong was added today. PamD 22:34, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

• ANd more: Uhwudong. This stream of really badly-written stubs by new editors, who must be getting the formula from somewhere, continues. Please will someone try to do something about it and prevent this rubbish from being added to the encyclopedia. PamD 19:06, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Category:Drugs in South Korea

I have created Category:Drugs in South Korea but I can only find three articles for it. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 20:38, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

What do you mean by drugs? 70.24.244.198 (talk) 05:20, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Seems to be legal drugs but illegal could also be added. ₪RicknAsia₪ 09:06, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes, that's correct. Since there is no qualifier of "legal" or "illegal" it can be used for either. The other categories in Category:Drugs by country will give some ideas. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 19:44, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

For interested project participants

An article that you have been involved in editing, Shinee has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the good article reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article. Drmies (talk) 15:34, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Concentration camps in North Korea

I wonder if anyone here is interested in adding locations to these articles?

The concentration camp network in North Korea has been very poorly documented until recently. With the recent release of a report including satellite pictures of these locations (see http://hrnk.org/publications-2/ , http://gizmodo.com/5842124/north-korean-death-camps-shown-in-unprecedented-detail-by-google-earth , http://freekorea.us/camps ), it should now be possible to add coordinates to the following articles:

• Chungsan_concentration_camp
• Danchon_concentration_camp
• Hamhung_concentration_camp
• Hoeryong_reeducation_camp
• Onsong_concentration_camp
• Oro_concentration_camp
• Sunghori_concentration_camp
• Taehŭng_concentration_camp
• Yongdam_concentration_camp

The WP:COORD page has information on how to use the {{coord}} template to use to add coordinates to articles. -- The Anome (talk) 12:13, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

South Korean politics working group

Since many of the South Korean politics articles are in a pretty shabby state (POV and copyediting issues, poor coverage), I have decided to be a little bold and set up a working group on South Korean politics. Anyone interested in participating should visit the provisional South Korean politics working group. --Tyrannus Mundi (talk) 14:48, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

translation help

Hi, can anyone help with an English-to-Korean translation over at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Language#poster / http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Language#poster.2Fko - thank you. 184.147.123.69 (talk) 15:50, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Translation and sourcing verification request

FC Seoul (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Can someone verify whether this source [8] can be used to verify this claim "FC Seoul is one of the most successful and the most popular club in the K-League, with financial backing from the GS Group." as a statement/analysis coming from the third party of the newspaper rather than from the president of the club. If the newspaper is just quoting someone directly involved with the club saying "Our club is popular and doing well financially", then the inherent conflict of interest means we should not be using that in our article and stating the claim in Wikipedia's voice.-- The Red Pen of Doom 02:50, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

It seems like GS Group didn't sponsor FC Seoul, but FC Seoul and Shinhan Card signed an official partnership at GS Champion's Park in Guri, Gyeong-gi province. And your guess is correct: the statement comes from the president of Shinhan Card Lee Jae-woo(이재우), and both FC Seoul and Shinhan praise each other for being number one in their field/industry. A quote:

이재우 사장은 서울과 지속적으로 관계를 유지하고 있는 데 대해 "금융 시장에도 브랜드 밸류가 있다. 신한카드는 카드 시장에서 1등 사업장이다. K-리그에서 그래도 명문구단하면 FC서울이다. 금융업계에서 보면 스포츠브랜드 마케팅이 중요하다. 명문구단과 1등 사업장이 윈윈할 수 있을 것"고 했다.
President Lee Jae-woo commented on the relationship with FC Seoul. "In the financial industry, every company has its brand value. Shinhan Card is the industry leader in credit card market. FC Seoul is (one of ) the best club in K-league. And sports (brand) marketing is becoming more important to financial industry. If we could cooperate as the best club and market leader, it would be a win-win for both."

--- PBJT (talk) 18:03, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Translation Help.

I need help translating the contents of this article: http://www.dwci.co.kr/comic/comic/comics_view.asp?new_gubun=champ&seq=1311&series_seq=1311&book_seq=19783 I want to use it a source and for teh info for my Jjang article. I have a load of other articles in what I am guessing is Hangul about Jjang, but I want to see how this one goes first.FusionLord (talk) 23:16, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure which part of page you wants it to be translated, since it is simply introducing the comic book (not WP:RS). The webpage you linked looks more or less a commercial(?) for this book, and gives some basic descriptions for customers before they buy it. --- PBJT (talk) 18:17, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Merge comment needed - 2008 US beef protest in South Korea

Should 2008 US beef protest in South Korea merge with 2008 South Korean candlelight vigil? Please comment at Talk:2008 US beef protest in South Korea. D O N D E groovily Talk to me 01:55, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Ancient history

There's a quite serious problem with a large amount of the articles on Korean ancient history (by which I mean basically everything before Unified Silla), which is that dates and content directly lifted from unreliable primary sources like the Samguk Sagi and (more egregiously) the Samguk Yusa have been inserted unreflectively. Now it might well be the case that Korean high school students are taught things like "Silla was founded in 57 BC", but this is widely accepted as bunk by actual historians, and this has wide ramifications for the rest of the material in those texts. For example, Best (2006) has this to say:

The most problematic aspect of the Samguk sagi's recounting of early peninsular history is that it places the foundations of Silla and Paekche at preposterously early dates ... The Samguk sagi's use of a traditional chronology that located the foundations of Paekche and Silla at implausibly early dates is the source of many of the text's more conspicuous historiographic problems. According to the Samguk sagi's own testimony, official records did not begin to be kept in Paekche until the late-fourth-century reign of King Kŭnch'ogo (trad. r. 346-75), and the first known history of Silla did not appear until the middle of the sixth century. Even assuming that information contained in such early accounts was available to later historians in some form, it would necessarily have had to have been extensively stretched and improvised upon in order to fill the substantial temporal void produced by the acceptance of first-century B.C.E. founding dates for the peninsula's two southern kingdoms.

Ki-baek Lee (1984) gives (emphasis mine):

As already narrated, Silla evolved out of Saro, one of the twelve walled-town states in the Chinhan area of southeastern Korea. The state of Saro took the lead in forming a confederated structure with the other walled-town states in the region, and it is thought that the appearance of the first ruler from the Sŏk clan, King T’arhae (traditional dates 57–80 A.D.), marks the beginning of this gradual process. By the time of King Naemul (356–402), then, a rather large confederated kingdom had taken shape, controlling the region east of the Naktong River in modern North Kyŏngsang province.

Or Seth (2011):

The traditional dates for the founding of the Three Kingdoms as recorded in the Samguk sagi, the oldest extant Korean history, are 57 BCE for Silla, 37 BCE for Koguryŏ, and 18 BCE for Paekche. And these dates are dutifully given in many textbooks and published materials in Korea today, but their basis is in myth; only Koguryŏ can be traced back to a time period that is anywhere near its legendary founding.

This isn't just about the foundation date of Silla or Paekche, though: in effect, this means that a lot of the narrative information that has been written on these on Wikipedia is simply false, representing a credulous narrative retelling of semi-historical legend. This is only the beginning of the problem, however: I'm increasingly finding articles that are quite clearly about mythology that are being related as narrative history. For example, until I edited the section title, there was no indication that the clearly mythological Yuhwa article was anything but narrative history, and on a cursory glance there continues to be no separation of myth and fact on articles like Dongbuyeo.

Now obviously I would ideally like to simply edit this on the relevant articles, but to be honest given the scale of the problem I'm not sure where to even start. Any thoughts? --Tyrannus Mundi (talk) 15:24, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Hello Tyrannus Mundi, and thank you for raising an important question. I can't agree with you more that we should distinguish a mythology from a historical fact, and that Wikipedia should present an accurate and reliable date for historical events. I'm not an expert on history, but I would like to add my opinion below:

• Samguk Sagi was written by Kim Bu-sik, who favored Silla over the other two kingdoms. It is likely that he put Silla's founding date ahead of Goguryeo and Baekje.
• The early period of Silla was probably a chiefdom, not kingdom. Initially, Silla was the weakest among three kingdoms and was even challenged by its neighbor Gaya confederacy.
• It would be ideal if we could find Chinese historical record to crosscheck the reliability of Samguk Sagi.
• Although mythologies are highly inaccurate, we don't need to discredit them entirely: we could glean some information as long as we interpret them correctly.
• For example, Dangun is the legendary founder of Gojoseon and Koreans say it was founded in 2333 BC.
• Some scholars argue that Dangun was not the King's name, but was the name of his honorary position. Dangun position could be inherited for generations. The mythology is about struggle between two tribes which worshiped tiger and bear as their Shamanism totem. Dangun's people, who migrated from the north with advanced technology, probably allied with the bear tribe conquered the tiger tribe.
• In case of Yuhwa, she was likely to be Jumong's real mother. One can conjecture that she wasn't the first wife of Geumwa and her son couldn't be a successor to Geumwa. Eventually, Jumong left Buyeo, and found his own kingdom, Goguryeo. But Jumong needed to show his subordinates that he's a chosen person by the heaven. The fact that he is the son of heaven and was born into an egg might gave him (and his descendants)legitimacy to rule his people, like an elected leader has legitimacy in a democratic society.
• In many Korean mythology, the king or founding father was born into an egg. Certainly they cannot hatched from eggs, but it refers that they came from the north. Each wave of migrants to the peninsular brought better weaponry, and they called them special.

Arguably, Korean history articles are in poor shape now and a lot needs to be done. When a mythology is introduced as the historical fact, it should be corrected or clarified. When proper interpretation can be found, it should be provided along with the mythology. If reliable and objective sources can be found, they should be added along with Samguk Sagi and Samguk Yusa. In short, we shouldn't rely on a single source . --- PBJT (talk) 05:47, 13 May 2012 (UTC)