Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/April 2016

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Japan's Top 100 Waterfalls

I am not sure if the list of 100 waterfall from a government publication is notable; it's an odd duck in the Category:Lists of waterfalls - how about moving it to List of waterfalls in Japan, with one section for the list? Otherwise, frankly, this article may be heading for AfD for failing WP:N. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:31, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

According to the corresponding Japanese wiki article, a panel of eight people formulated the final list from 527 waterfalls. But there is no description of how or why these 100 made the cut, so I agree that there is a notability problem here.

The English article says there are 517 (527?) named waterfalls in the country, so listing all of them under List of waterfalls in Japan sounds more appropriate to me. Rather than a separate section for this 100, perhaps the main list could include an asterisk against the names of those that made the "Top 100" list. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 06:26, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

I do not believe for an instant the claim that there are "517 named waterfalls" in Japan, or that any meaningful number can possibly be attached to them. There might, just, be n named waterfalls in some specific set of mapping data; there could, I suppose in principle, be a count of the number of waterfalls to which are attached signs bearing a name. But even then, there will be cases where there are, by any reasonable assessment, three waterfalls, in a sequence, known as ××の滝, which will in the Japanese list be counted as one entry. (Personal recollection, dimly, of such a case, where the individual falls were numbered.) Oh, the 527 number comes from the ja:WP article 日本の滝百選 where this was the total number of candidates submitted by members of the public. Well, this is all marginal -- if there is an article on this list it should at least be better titled ("top" has no meaning). But I would rather support moving to a general list, which might just be useful, and marking the members of this selection with an asterisk or similar. And perhaps there should be an article on the Japanese obsession with making these lists... Imaginatorium (talk) 08:37, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

There might be that many, but whether there are or not is irrelevant. I see no problem with having a List of waterfalls in Japan, but if there can be enough sources to keep Japan's Top 100 Waterfalls, I see no problem keeping that in addition to the more generic list. I would suggest moving it to One Hundred Waterfalls of Japan instead, however. Also, if the government compiled this list, there really ought to be a link to the government page about it. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 19:43, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

I haven't checked the wikipedia regulations, but I don't see how a list of all waterfalls (527 plus) would be a meaningful list (with additional information beyond the name). I am all for lists of waterfalls with some additional criterion, such as a List of the x highest waterfalls, list of highest waterfalls per prefecture or whatever else can be used to limit the number. BTW, we already have 100 Landscapes of Japan (Heisei era), 100 Landscapes of Japan (Shōwa era), 100 Soundscapes of Japan, Three Great Gardens of Japan, Three Major Night Views of Japan, New Three Major Night Views of Japan, Three Views of Japan. Is the source for the top 100 waterfalls less notable then these? bamse (talk) 11:08, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Can you help me test something in Japanese?

Hello there! Some of you got this message in their talk pages, so apologies for cross-posting. My name is Erica, and I am a community liaison for the visual editor team at the Wikimedia Foundation. I'm contacting you because we need feedback from editors who can read and type in Japanese. Our main question is, does typing in this language feel natural in the visual editor? (Language engineer David Chan needs to know.) So, would you do me a favor, click here and try to type something? (To make things super-easy, I provided a short sentence that you can try and replicate by typing it on that page). Let me know how that went - you can post a reply here and just ping me. どうもありがとうございます! --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 10:28, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

@Elitre (WMF): It seemed fine to me. I suspect the main differences would depend on the IME used on the user's computer. I've never had a problem typing Japanese on Wikipedia, regardless of which editor. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 16:10, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

2016 Kyushu earthquakes

2016 Kyushu earthquakes was created. Users are invited to edit and add more information. Mhhossein (talk) 08:01, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

*Ahem* 2016 Kumamoto earthquakes--十八 08:18, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

"UK.PROJECT"

The naming of UK.PROJECT is under discussion, see talk:UK.PROJECT -- 70.51.45.100 (talk) 05:16, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

ハルジオンが咲く頃

Hi. Can someone tell me what is the correct romanization of "ハルジオンが咲く頃"? Is it "Harujion ga Sakukoro" or "Harujion ga Saku Koro"? Thanks, --Cattus ^talk 15:37, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

I would use the former (Harujion ga Sakukoro). It's the time of the blooming of Erigeron philadelphicus. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 18:10, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks.--Cattus ^talk 18:36, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

But it should be pointed out that there is no clear "correct romanization" rule for where to put spaces: since -koro is an affix (meaning "around the time of"), it would be easier to understand if written "Harujion-ga saku-koro" (for example). Imaginatorium (talk) 06:45, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

I'll second that. Personally I prefer the use of hyphens, but it is just that, personal preference. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 07:01, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

I like to avoid hyphens whenever possible. It makes it cleaner, and the hyphen doesn't really do anything useful in short words like that. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 18:16, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

It's not like 咲く頃 could really be called a "word", though. Would you write "saitakoro" for 咲いた頃? Or how about まだ咲いていなかった頃? Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 07:23, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

It may not be a standard word, but it's a word in this case. Arguing otherwise is just silly. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 19:29, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Arguing it is a "word", or arguing it is not a "word": both are silly, until you define what you mean by a word. And that's the problem. But more generally, in any agglutinative language there are many joined-up building blocks, and showing the joins is bound to be helpful in didactic situations, which is why children's books in hiragana have spaces. But out of interest, how would you romanise まだ咲いていなかった頃? Imaginatorium (talk) 19:35, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Nihonjoe—did you miss the question? Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 06:55, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Likely "mada waraiteinakata goro". ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 17:13, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

So, where do you draw the line? Why one word in the shorter example? Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:05, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Asking for more input

Hello. I think more people should weigh in on the discussion at Talk:Pokémon Sun and Moon#Japanese Titles Added. It looks like two people have decided that this one Pokémon page should be formatted differently than all of the other ones based on a guideline that no other Pokémon or video game page in general uses.--OuendanL (talk) 23:19, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster

Is this an incident, accident or a disaster, for the renaming discussion, see talk:Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster -- 70.51.45.100 (talk) 06:26, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Kento Masuda

I was wondering if a member of this Project who knows Italian could check out the pages Kento Masuda and Hiroko Tsuji (musician)? Written by the same editor, both seem to assert the subjects have been entered into the Order of St. Sylvester and cite a page in Italian as proof. The Tsuji page has a photo of her holding what seems to be certificate in Italian. I suspect that both pages are self-promotion and may be exaggerating the relationship to the Order. I've also asked at WikiProject Italy, but I thought I'd give it a try here. Michitaro (talk) 22:47, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

These pages are all very thin on content, and apparently all written by the same user in Japanese, English, and Italian. (There is a comment on the Italian page about not using machine translation, but the Italian does not look like raw MT to me.) Anyway, this "award": who knows?! "Signorina" and "Maestro" are like being awarded the "titles" of 娘さん and 先生 : and a search for "signorina" and "cavalieri di san silvestro" produces: Hiroko Tsuji(!) I guess that this is some kind of generic "Thank you for performing" (etc etc) certificate, with her name written as "Signorina Hiroko Tsuji", which would essentially be bogus. Same for "Maestro Kento Masuda". Perhaps someone on WP:it can provide more help, but I guess this is not notable stuff. Imaginatorium (talk) 12:17, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

You might have prejudice. Why not ask them directly? http://www.cavalierisansilvestro.it/index.php?lang=en --Orugoro (talk) 04:20, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

The Association "Monumentalis Ecclesiae Sancti Silvestri Societas” , pursues to promote activities of religious, cultural, human and charitable nature, increasing awareness among the honored "Papal Orders" and developing the spirit of community service, encourage charitable works and work closely with other faiths and religions. The Order was founded with the desire to gather around the old Monumental Church of Saint Sylvester in Tivoli, where important people with undisputed intellectual depth or of high scientific or human high-profile plus ordinary citizens of goodwill with a strong sense of love for history, for the Arts and a sincere interest in medieval traditions, gave birth to the Orders of Chivalry. Particularly, the Association aspires to be a special place of aggregation, growth and for the understanding of all Papal awards, with particular attention to the Order of St Sylvester and its members. While remaining a meeting place for those who have been awarded a Papal Knighthood they also encourage those who would like to join the Association with the intent to nurture and enrich their traditions. --Orugoro (talk) 05:15, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

It is your responsibility, as with any editor on Wikipedia, to verify any claims that you add to the encyclopedia. You have not done that. The pages cited in Italian don't even mention her name. Instead of simply deleting legitimate maintenance tags, please find reliable sources. Michitaro (talk) 13:28, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

She is also known as "Luna" as they have written. The picture is true, also. Don't worry, Order of St. Sylvester will be publish their official info which I have contacted them myself, even you could do it yourself. --Orugoro (talk) 06:52, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

You said I "might have prejudice"... well, yes, I might. But this would have nothing to do with reasoned facts: for example the meaning of Signorina and Maestro in Italian. These are simply not possible titles of "Awards", because they are just ordinary titles: "Miss Hiroko Tsuji" and "Mr Kento Masuda". The picture is no doubt a real picture (assuming you mean the one of her holding a certificate), but it tells us nothing about what the certificate says. Imaginatorium (talk) 07:23, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Original research and tag removal at Keikyū Main Line

• Keikyū Main Line (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

I would be grateful if other WPJ editors could have a look at the Keikyū Main Line article. A Japanese editor blocked indefinitely over on Japanese Wikipedia has recently been adding a lot of erroneous details based on either personal blogs or just plain guesswork, and also removing tags highlighting the fact that these are contradicted by official sources ([1]). While removing valid maintenance tags is basically vandalism, I'm close to 3RR territory, so I would appreciate it if other editors could at least restore the maintenance tags, if not remove the original research outright. Thanks in advance for any help. --DAJF (talk) 07:54, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Aomori Prefectural (Folk) Museum

What is the correct name of this museum (with/without "Folk")? Or are there two museums? Perhaps Aomori Prefectural Museum should be created as redirect to Aomori Prefectural Folk Museum? bamse (talk) 20:18, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Do you know where the "Folk Museum" name came from in the first place? The corresponding Japanese Wiki article as well as the official website suggest the museum does not use "Folk" in its name. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 22:49, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

No idea where it came from. It wasn't me. I saw that on ja-wikipedia they have it without "Folk", but where on the official website do they have the English name? A quick search seems to show that several travel related sites have it with "Folk", most notably JNTO: [2]. bamse (talk) 10:10, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Kyōdokan (郷土館) could be translated as "Folk" museum, no? bamse (talk) 10:11, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

I don't think "Folk" is the right word. As I understand it (there is a 郷土館 in the town where I live) this simply means a "local museum", or a "museum of local history". But then, museums are always about history, and the artefacts in them tend to have some local connection, or they would be in a different museum. The website doesn't proclaim what it thinks the name of the museum ought to be in a particular foreign language, so I think we should use the simplest appropriate name, which would probably be "Aomori Prefectural Museum" with a redirect from the version with "Folk" in. Imaginatorium (talk) 10:32, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

The museum journal 青森県立郷土館研究紀要 is translated as Bulletin of the Aomori Prefectural Museum, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 00:54, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the input. I moved it to Aomori Prefectural Museum with a redirect from Aomori Prefectural Folk Museum as suggested. bamse (talk) 09:27, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

{{Contrib-ja1}}

Hi. Templates in Category:Non-English user warning templates all have a two links to the relevant foreign language Wikipedia. Could someone add the missing link in {{Contrib-ja1}}, please? Thank you, Sam Sailor ^Talk! 16:15, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

I added a link on the bit of text that says "Japanese-language edition of WP". Please check it looks ok! Imaginatorium (talk) 17:15, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Opinions on an article name

There is a politician in the national Diet named ja:山田修路 (やまだ　しゅうじ). There is no problem with the romanisation of Yamada, but his first name is a bit tricky. His personal website uses the name "Syuji" (http://yamada-syuji.com/). His profile at the LDP's website is "Syuuji" ([3]) while at the Diet House of Councillors website it is "Shuji" ([4]). I prefer the latter personally, which is also the name used by the Japan Times in a couple of articles ([5] and [6]). But given the subject's consistent use of "Syuji" I am keen to hear the opinion of others. I note that an article about an athlete already exists at Shuji Yamada. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 05:27, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

The guidelines are fairly clear: we romanise Japanese using the most widely accepted Hepburn system. Mr Yamada himself has no clue what this means; he writes Japanese by hitting keys on a qwerty keyboard, and he has found that hitting various combinations, including syuuji gives him the result he wants. If he has to write a string of Roman letters to represent his name, any such combination seems appropriate to him -- after all, he never has to read these letters. So we can ignore the jumbled confusion, and write Shūji. Imaginatorium (talk) 06:01, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Could you point me to the guideline? I had a quick look around the project page before asking but couldn't find anything.

On the main point, I agree with you in principle and if it was only him using that spelling I would have ignored it. But his LDP profile also uses it (but with an extra "u"), despite the fact that they do not for other members with similar names, e.g. Shuhei, Shunsuke and Shunichi. So it seems to be intentional on his/their behalf. I remember there was a discussion recently about the ordering of names (from memory it was moving Hikaru Utada to Utada Hikaru). So obviously there are exceptions to any rule. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 07:03, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

MOS:JA#Modern names states that we should first "use the form personally or professionally used by the person, if available in the English/Latin alphabet". Since there is not one version of his romanized name which is most common (based on what you wrote, his official sites use three different romanizations), and because there is no English encyclopedia entry (that you indicated or that I could find online), we should go with "the form publicly used on behalf of the person in the English-speaking world", which in this case is "Shuji" in the Japan Times.

If an article is being created, MOS:JA#Names also states that "in all cases, a redirect should be employed for any commonly used romanization other than that indicated here to cover alternative usages. Redirects for the opposite naming orders noted below should also be employed. That is, if an article is titled "given name + family name", a redirect from "family name + given name" is required; and vice versa." So the article would be at Shuji Yamada (politician), Shuji Yamada would be turned into a disambiguation page at Shuji Yamada (disambiguation) (with the current article being moved to Shuji Yamada (volleyball player)), and redirects would be created to the disambiguation page from Syuji Yamada, Syuuji Yamada, Syūji Yamada, Shuuji Yamada, Shūji Yamada, Yamada Syuji, Yamada Syuuji, Yamada Syūji, Yamada Shuji, Yamada Shuuji, and Yamada Shūji. That's a lot of redirects, but it covers all the possibilities. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 06:19, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Japanese idol: opinions on the definition needed

Please visit Talk:Japanese_idol#There's more than just the "cute teenage girl" kind of idol. --Moscow Connection (talk) 21:43, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Commented there. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 21:51, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Island names

I am translating File:Carte topographique du Japon-fr.svg to English and am a bit confused about the spelling of island names. The Manual of Style says Do not use hyphens or spaces to separate particles or suffixes but on the other hand there are many articles with hyphened names like Miyako-jima etc. Should those names be with or without hyphen, with or without the shima/jima? bamse (talk) 21:22, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

I think that applies more to "-san" (with people) than for islands. If the most common usage is with the hyphen, go ahead and use it. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 23:01, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

Hm, in the MOS, that quote above certainly refers to islands (it is from the "Islands" subsection). Either we have to rewrite the MOS or do some moves of article names. In any case I am not sure that the current article names are based on most common usage or whether they are rather random. For some of the small islands it might be difficult to find English language sources. Personally I'd favor a consistent spelling, either with or without hyphen (except for notable exceptions like Iwo Jima). In the similar situation of Japanese temple/shrine names (-dera, -taisha...) the directions from the MOS seem to be pretty much followed throughout wikipedia as far as I can see. Why can't we do the same for island names? bamse (talk) 10:08, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

The most common usage in English should trump everything. The MOS should apply in cases where there is no "most common usage" that can be determined. Feel free to make a proposal on the MOS talk page and we can get things sorted out. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 18:50, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

I see (and also read the respective section in the MOS). I don't really want to argue or change the MOS. It is just that having different names with/without hyphen next to each other on a map looked a bit strange to me. Also, I was (and still am) under the impression that for temples/shrines "most common English language usage" seems not to be applied, but rather the MOS direction: hyphenation for temples and "Shrine" instead of jinja/taisha... This is fine with me, please don't change it to most common usage. I guess I just go along and use the currently used article names for the islands in the translation. bamse (talk) 01:34, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Hōjō Sadaaki - shikken?

I vaguely recall that you're supposed to start posts off with a seasonal reference, so...

As the days shorten, the leaves change colour, and the 2016 AFL season gets into full swing,

I notice that Hōjō Sadaaki (which I've just rescued from speedy deletion) is listed as one of the resho of the Kamakura bakufu, but not as one of the shikken. According to this source, he was, albeit very briefly.

I'd ビー ボルド and change it myself, but I have almost no knowledge of that particular period of history. Your thoughts, mina-sama?

ピーマン (the junior high school kids' nickname for me, and yes, I know what it means) aka --Shirt58 (talk) 09:55, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

@Shirt58: Since you have a ref for it, go ahead and add it. Thanks for catching that. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 16:12, 30 April 2016 (UTC)