Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ireland/Archive 7

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Irish comics

The Irish Comics Wiki needs contributors! --Nicknack009 (talk) 20:10, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Flag of Ireland

Certain Users have unilaterally moved the Flag of Ireland to the Flag of the Republic of Ireland (and made the former a DAB page). I believe this was done without consensus and should be reverted. Regards. Redking7 (talk) 22:38, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

This follows the consensus that the state of Ireland should be at the page Republic of IrelandTraditional unionist (talk) 22:41, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

There is no consensus that the state should be at Republic of Ireland, only a lack of consensus that it should be moved. This page move seems to have followed an RM, so it was done fairly; still, I think it was unfortunate, for reasons I have given before. Scolaire (talk) 07:18, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Where was the notice for this proposed move posted? I don't see it here on WikiProject Ireland, or at the Talk:Ireland page? It's hardly consensus if the article was moved in secret... --HighKing (talk) 21:52, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

I have to agree with HighKing because I did not see anything about this anywhere except after the fact. It seemed to me like an underhand secret move that should be challenged. Where do we do that? TU is wrong - there is no consensus for this - should be does not a consensus make. Flag of Ireland is correct and the dab page might appropriately be called Flags of Ireland. ww2censor (talk) 22:18, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

In general the procedure would be to wait 14 days after the move (23 October) and file another RM. The catch is that a move back is more likely to fail for lack of consensus if there is any significant opposition. Having said that, the move does look a bit dodgy on re-reading it - it seems to be based on Number 57's reading of the arguments more than on consensus. However, any new move proposal would want to be very carefully worded to be reasonably sure of success. Scolaire (talk) 07:33, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Audio pronunciation of Irish language article titles

Hi, is there anyone out there who could provide an audio pronunciation for those articles with Irish language titles, e.g. Taoiseach, Tánaiste, Áras an Uachtaráin, Dáil Éireann, Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, etc but it could cover all entries in Category:Entities with Irish names. I could do it myself but I am not a native speaker so I'm sure there would be objections! So if you or someone you know could record the pronunciations and upload them to wikipedia that would be great! Tx, Snappy56 (talk) 06:48, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

There might equally be trouble if it was done by somebody with too strong a regional accent (e.g. Donegal or Dingle). A non-native speaker would be more likely to use the Caighdeán, and this might actually be the safer option in the end. Scolaire (talk) 07:50, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

That's a good point, I myself find native speakers from Donegal quite hard to understand. The best option would be somebody with a "neutral" accent (however that might be defined) but then again it might be better to have some audio files with any accent rather than nothing as is the case at present. Snappy56 (talk) 11:44, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

What I'm really saying is that if you yourself are confident that your pronunciation is all right, then maybe you should go for it. Scolaire (talk) 14:06, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks but I'd rather not inflict my voice on the Wikipedia, its not very "radio-friendly". Snappy56 (talk) 07:32, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I could give it a whirl. I have a Donegal accent, although it is not a strong accent and is quite easy to understand I hope. Although I'm used to it. I'm sure, no matter what accent, if we were to speak slowly...--Theosony (talk) 18:16, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Help wanted for GAR

Ireland has been nominated for a good article reassessment. Articles are typically reviewed for one week. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to good article quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article. Reviewers' concerns are here. Can the wiki project assist in removing the few issues and getting the flagship article returned to GA? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ZincBelief (talk • contribs) 10:31, 21 October 2008

Requested move on the Flag of Ireland

Having read over the discussion on the recent move and the concerns expressed, I have begun a move request on the flag. Your comments would be welcome here. --Domer48_'fenian' 18:20, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I cannot believe that this move took place in the first place. There was clearly no consensus (notwithstanding the lame efforts of the admin to artificially increase the support count). Is there a process for reporting this bad move like ANI or something? --HighKing (talk) 13:22, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

There was no consensus to move it; the result should have been no consensus. That WP:IE was not informed is also a mitigating factor in why it should not have been moved. While I’m here, why is disambiguation needed between Ireland and Northern Ireland, two totally different names. Why are we using Republic of Ireland for the name of the country when Irish Constitutional Law states that the country’s name is Ireland? Example, Kerry is in Ireland, Derry is in Northern Ireland. Ridiculous article names such as Economy of the Republic of Ireland. What is that all about? Could an editor please explain to me why this is? Thanks.--Domer48_'fenian' 13:46, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Just some examples Politics of the Republic of Ireland, Economy of the Republic of Ireland, History of the Republic of Ireland and so forth, why is this necessary? "Disambiguation in Wikipedia is the process of resolving conflicts in article titles that occur when a single term can be associated with more than one topic, making that term likely to be the natural title for more than one article. In other words, disambiguations are paths leading to different articles which could, in principle, have the same title." So why is disambiguation necessary between Ireland and Northern Ireland, totally different names? So using the above example, what is wrong with Politics of Ireland? --Domer48_'fenian' 14:02, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

I'd recommend changing the horse before the carts folks. Ya'll gotta be careful about these 'page movements' as AE is out there watching. GoodDay (talk) 14:05, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Hang on GoodDay, we didn't move any articles! The article was moved without consensus. Take a look at the original Move Request and see if there was a consensus. Let me know what you think (and read the comments section below too). BTW, do you think AE would relate this to the troubles too?  :-) If so, that's also pretty ridiculous... --HighKing (talk) 14:29, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

AE are not concerned about reasoned, reasonable and informed discussion. They will step in though if editors start to edit war over these issues. I would like to think that they would also intervene if editors abuse the talk page guidelines and become uncivil or engage in personal attacks. You may also have noticed how no one opposed has yet to address the rational I have used to request the move.

My rational is basically apples and oranges. They are both fruit, but clearly different. You have Ireland, and then you have Northern Ireland with completely different names. Any reasonable person looking for an article on the Politics of Ireland would not search for Politics of the Republic of Ireland. Likewise with Northern Ireland. --Domer48_'fenian' 14:34, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Unless you're British and have grown up all your life hearing the state called "Republic of Ireland". It's a pity that editors from other countries don't pipe up more. --HighKing (talk) 14:49, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

If that is the case with British editors, a re-direct would sort it out. We don't have to change the official name of a country? Do you not think so? --Domer48_'fenian' 14:59, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

In general there is no disambiguation needed between Ireland and Northern Ireland. Article names should normally be quite clear (though some of them are as they are for Wikipedia-historical reasons). However, when discussing details of who did or said what - especially when discussing matters that affect more than one of UK / Britain / Ireland / Northern Ireland, then disambiguation can be essential. It's especially hard to see this when one was involved in the original writing, if only because what you meant is more obvious to you than to a new reader. I don't like politically motivated terminology, or ugly and clumsy phraseology - but ambiguity is worse, in an encyclopaedia. - Paul (talk) 17:53, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

An example might help to illustrate my point. In the search bar, type in US or USA and both bring you to United States. Ireland should be the same don't you think? We need re-directs not disambiguation. How many Americans us the name Republic of Ireland? --Domer48_'fenian' 15:07, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

My responses left on respective editors talk-pages. Couldn't get through here, ha ha. GoodDay (talk) 15:10, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

LOL. --Domer48_'fenian' 15:11, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
Part 3 Talk:Flag_of_Ireland#Requested_move

Attempt to ban "Nationalist" from discussions

Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Nationalist_nonsense_in_AfDs.2C_RMs_etcGnevin (talk) 10:31, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Proposal to move Ireland to Ireland (island), etc

It has been proposed that Ireland should be moved to Ireland (island) and Republic of Ireland to Ireland. To comment, please visit Talk:Republic of Ireland#Proposed move. Angus McLellan (Talk) 12:18, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

New Ireland project

Hi all,
I've started a new Ireland related project which I hope will bridge a gap I feel exists between the two Wiki community's with an interest in Ireland related matters. The project has just started but I hope it will allow us to work together at first on uncontroversial articles such as Sports in Ireland and if successful I hope will allow for a more constructive and friendly approach to the controversial issues. Gnevin (talk) 17:08, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

When you say "I've started...", have you actually communicated with anybody from the other Wikiprojects? If so, has anybody expressed an interest in joining, and who? Scolaire (talk) 09:12, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I was Being bold. I've informed wikiproject Ireland, Northern Ireland, Republicanism and Unionism .Is their any other related project that should be informed? .So far 2 people have said its has merit but if no one is interested then so be it Gnevin (talk) 12:21, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I think the suggestion has merit, and should be explored more. Bringing in all of the projects has not been done thus far, and could possibly advance goals (improving the Articles) in a neutral and constructive setting. --Domer48_'fenian' 09:50, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I really like this idea in principle, but ... the problem I see is that most of the projects involved are not very active, so there's not much scope for the collaboration which we'd all like to see. For example, Gnevin's post about the new project was only the fifth edit to WT:NIR in the whole of the month of October, and that project's talk page is more of an occasionally-used noticeboard than a place of discussion. Similarly, WT:IR had only 4 posts in the whole of October.

I know that Gnevin is a great consensus-builder, and I'd love to see this work, but at the moment it seems to me that there just ain't enough people involved in any of the Irish wikiprojects to keep them doing anything more than ticking over. So I fear that despite the manifest good intentions, the circumstances will leave the new Wikipedia:WikiProject Ireland Collaboration as an empty vessel. :( --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:21, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

I also support the concept, but agree with BHG (good to see you!) that, given the numbers, and levels of activity, there may not be enough to power it. The existing Wikiprojects are only moving gradually, and, especially with some of what resource there is available caught up in long-running debates, I am not sure if what capacity there is might not be better directed to raising overall article range and quality. But the idea is worth preserving, pending enough people and time. SeoR (talk) 12:13, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

How to list an Article for scrapping (Flags...)

A new article has just been started called Flag of the island of Ireland. I would like to list it for scrapping/merger. Where does one go to do that? Regards. Redking7 (talk) 22:03, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

WP:AfD is the place to nominate an article for deletion. ww2censor (talk) 22:07, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

There is some useful and interesting information there (it's a complex and subtle subject), though the article needs work, and the title could have been better chosen. Flags of Ireland, or Flags in Ireland, or Irish flags, perhaps? - Paul (talk) 18:02, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Letterkenny

I've some Irish towns on my watchlist and following one IP with strange edits I ended at the article about Letterkenny. Here I reverted a series of edits which added more insignificant details about crime incidents in the Letterkenny area to a crime section which seems to me already overblown with cases that date back to 2005. Apparently the same editor reverted it back afterwards and I undid his or her edit once more. There was some dispute about this section one year ago including an edit war where the crime section was subsequently blanked and restored (see, for example, this removing edit, followed by this restoring edit and this entry on the talk page). I do not want to open a new edit war in that article but would appreciate if some of you could take a look at this. Thanks, AFBorchert (talk) 09:21, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Diplomatic missions of Ireland

There is a discussion taking place on the above page over whether or not to list the "Republic of China" or "Taiwan" on the list of Ireland's diplomatic missions. Feel free to read up on the topic and then contribute your views as as there is a deadlock at the moment. Regards. Redking7 (talk) 21:17, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Religious shrines of Ireland

Until now I have only been an occassional contributor to Wikipedia.

However, I have become quite enthusiastic recently and intend contributing as much as possible to articles about the religious shrines of Ireland and other subjects of interest to me.Fr. Slat O Bodach (talk) 18:53, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Really? Would you be the same person who added this [1] and this [2] ? Snappy (talk) 22:23, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Those edits were probably made by one of my many children. Their names are very similar to mine and they impersonate me from time to time. Fr. Slat O Bodach (talk) 17:37, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

– This was yet another sock of Bell V Bell, now banned. Snappy (talk) 02:02, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Map needed

Indo-Irish relations Needs a map for the lead. It would be great is someone could add it.

Page moves: Ireland and Republic of Ireland

Apparently the Ireland disambiguation task force is very close to a consensus to move Ireland to Ireland (island) and Republic of Ireland to Ireland (state). Apparently, also, this would not require a requested move - see here. Discussion is on the talk page, where there are multiple polls going on simultaneously. Scolaire (talk) 09:43, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Move discussions at: Talk:Ireland (disambiguation)#Proposed move to Ireland and Talk:Ireland#Proposed move to Ireland (island). All interested parties welcome to comment. Rockpocket 01:24, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Ireland proposals - important update

There is currently a 'joint' Requested Move proposal, here at Ireland Talk, that proposes moving Ireland to Ireland (island), and removing the forked 'Irish state/country' material that has appeared over the years (including additional material on Northern Ireland). The Republic of Ireland would then be the principle article for the Irish state/country, as it was originally intended to be. Concurrently, Ireland (disambiguation) would be Moved to the vacated Ireland, so the many uses of 'Ireland' that refer to the country/state (along with those uses referring to the geographical/island use), would now offer the reader a choice of destination.

The Move was based on ongoing discussion at the Ireland disambiguation taskforce (see its Talk page specifically).

In addition to the above Requested Move proposal, there are alternative suggestions currently underway at the taskforce Talk, such as changing the direction of the two main Ireland articles simply by editing them, including most recently; 1) Promoting Ireland as the official country/state article (not Republic of Ireland), and building up Ireland (island) as a geographical/island article, and of 2) Ensuring Ireland is a geographical/island article only (and so removing much of the forked country/state-related material). Neither of those options would require Ireland (disambiguation) to be moved to Ireland.

If you support (or reject) the disambiguation page option for Ireland, please vote in the Requested Move poll, or perhaps consider commenting at the taskforce on one of the other options. As some options are 'edit-only' (and do not need to be polled), it is looking likely that something could be moved on.

In good faith, --Matt Lewis (talk) 17:52, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

RfC: controversial multi-page move

An RfC on the recent multi-page move has been opened at Talk:Ireland#RfC: controversial multi-page move. --89.101.221.42 (talk) 10:38, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

List of Irish people in World War II

Irish editors might have a view on this: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Irish people in World War II. Folks at 137 (talk) 19:54, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

cat: irish cuisine

hello, wp:ireland. i set to improving the article on coddle last night, but got a bit carried away and also created Template:Cuisine of Ireland. at the moment it's mostly packet and tripe and black pudding and the like, but if anyone wants to add to it, feel free :) --00:38, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

List of Irish people

"Move from noticeboard to here" ww2censor (talk) 06:00, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

• Article List of Irish people‎ has been redirected (read: removed) by User:John. I would like to challenge what might be an arbitrary move, but will be going on holidays shortly so can't follow up. Maybe someone may be interested in investigating? Hohenloh ⁺ 04:13, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

• There's no appetite to improve it apparently as it sat unreferenced for a month. If it could be rebuilt with references that would be fine with me, of course. But I don't feel comfortable with a list with no verifiability. Talk:List of Irish people‎ is a good place to discuss this. --John (talk) 07:30, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

• I removed the redirect, and pointed out on Talk:List of Irish people‎ that there are about 150 Lists of people by nationality, NONE of which appear to be referenced. If the editor has a problem with this list format, I respectfully suggest taking it up with the MoS or whoever handles things like this, and not start blazing a trail (with the best of intentions of course), by removing the Irish. Hohenloh ⁺ 00:13, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

• You restored an article which is full of unverified assertion of nationality/ethnicity, and (as a quick look will reveal) full of errors. It would be better to do without an "article" like this than to perpetuate it in such an awful state. I have no reason to believe that lists are exempt from our policy on verifiability; if you do then let's see it. --John (talk) 05:35, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Image Requests

There seems to be an inordinate amount of "image requests" for articles dealing with Ireland. I think many articles do not need an image or no image could be provided. For example what possible image could you use for the Civil Service of Ireland, as the article says it a collective term. Also you have people that are semi-mythological like Ailill_Aulom and Conall_Cernach, where no image could be provided as probably none exist.

I also would like to suggest that image requests be grouped under places, buildings, people etc. It would make it easier for people (myself included) to quickly find categories that need images that I can go out and take and not have to search through hundreds of requests for anything recognisable. If it was reorganised it would be simple matter to create a group on Flickr dedicated to creating CC images for these articles. Is there any group here activly trying to provide images for articles?

Jaqian (talk) 17:24, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Lists of townlands

Are articles like List of townlands in County Kilkenny encyclopedic from an Irish perspective? If not, would someone PROD and PROD2 this? If so, would someone complete the set so the entire country is represented?

By the way, if you do complete the set, please use manageable-sized sections. 160KB in a single section is a bit much to edit. It was worse, it was a 400KB+ non-wikified table when it started. How do you say "Uggh!" in Gaelic? davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 03:55, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

This list seems to be an exact copy of the search result for the county from the source on the page and it is the only such list at present. What real use is it? All townlands with articles are listed by category based on the counties, so basically it is a list of names that will likely never have a link for each townland and most will remain tiny stubs anyway. I would favour an AfD. ww2censor (talk) 06:17, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

I will Split it into more managable sections. On another note two other county townland lists exist for Monaghan and Down but do not contain much info about where the townland is, a country wide set would be possible but would take a while also my area is more Kilkenny than anywhere else Ω ENGLISH LOCK Ω 10:59, 31 December 2008 (UTC)