Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Architecture/Historic houses task force

Active discussions
WikiProject Architecture / Historic houses  (Rated Project-class)
This page is within the scope of WikiProject Architecture, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Architecture on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
 Project  This page does not require a rating on the project's quality scale.
Taskforce icon
This page is supported by the Historic houses task force.

Importance criteriaEdit

I have made a start on populating Category:Historic houses articles with some of the article near me which i think would fit this task force; however I've not included anything for "importance" as I'm not sure how this apply. Would the higher importance be for better known (possibly larger/open to the public/used as a film set etc) or for those which signified specific changes in architectural style etc - or other criteria?— Rod talk 19:33, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Importance refers to the relative importance of an article within the scope of the task force, which could be different from the importance rating for WP Architecture. Would be good to develop a criteria for that. --ELEKHHT 01:51, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
I've tagged some for top importance already, mainly royal houses or very prominent stately homes like Longleat or Althorp.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:22, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Automatic taggingEdit

I think we should request a bot to tag articles within core categories, where we can be sure that all articles in a given category belong to the scope of this WikiProject. Bots that do this kind of work are at Category:WikiProject tagging bots but not all are active. --ELEKHHT 02:55, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Probably best yeah, might save a bit of time, but they'll have to all be assessed anyway. List of country houses in the United Kingdom might be a good place to start.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:21, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
To get some international ones why not start at the top level cat Category:Country houses.— Rod talk 14:54, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
Bots run based on categories, so I think Country houses is a good one to start with. Would you include though the subcat "Films set in country houses"? And are there any other 100% categories? I also see there is now a centralised bot request page at Wikipedia:Bot requests. --ELEKHHT 02:23, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
For the US, these would be a good place for the bot to start, Category:Residential buildings on the National Register of Historic Places by state and Category:Houses on the National Register of Historic Places; I'm sure there's overlap between the two. --Rosiestep (talk) 21:13, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Editing problemEdit

I would like to have edited/moved text from the section Todo items for anyone but can no longer access the content. Furthmore, I'm not too sure whether red links by country should be listed here or elsewhere.--Ipigott (talk) 14:38, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

If you go to Wikipedia:Architecture/Historic houses/to_do there seems to be content or is there another list?— Rod talk 14:55, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
The to do list is on a separate subpage as indicated by Rodw above. I added an edit button in the top-right corner so that is easyer to access it. --ELEKHHT 23:27, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Lists of recognised contentEdit

JL-bot has recently added FAs, GAs DYKs etc which have been tagged for this task force (which will be updated automatically on a regular basis), so now we have duplicates of some of the entries with the manual list. There are also some in the manual list which obviously haven't been tagged yet so don't show up in the bot generated list - what is the best way to handle this?— Rod talk 16:15, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

I note this has now been reverted with the edit summary "DYK isn't recognised content " although I would suggest DYKs are reviewed content & many projects include this as as "achievements" of the project or task force. If DYKs are not wanted the parameters of the JL bot can just be edited to remove this. The revision removed Buckingham Palace which has been tagged for the project and isn't in the manually added list. I would suggest that as more articles are tagged it would be better to let a bot keep the list up to date rather than trying to do it manually - it may be a better use of editing time to tag the articles.— Rod talk 21:10, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
I suspended JL-Bot for the moment because as long not all articles are tagged it will not produce a better list than what we have. There also needs to be a consensus as to what item should be included in the scope of JL-bot. We could remove for instance the DYK parameter. I also think that there is no point to list former featured pictures, given that pictures cannot be improved incrementally. --ELEKHHT 23:32, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
I and others have contributed masses of start class articles over the years. It's pointless listing every DYK anybody ever had on a country house unless the article has been fully reviewed and passed for GA. I've listed all of the FAs and GAs as it is I think.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:21, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
I've added a few more which were shown in the WP 1.0 table. The consensus seems to be not to include DYK which is fine but I would still suggest using the bot rather than doing this manually as loads more articles get tagged.— Rod talk 16:54, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
  • There seems to be a serious problem with the "Historic houses articles by quality and importance" listing. Most of the articles specifically tagged are not included correctly. Is this also a bot problem? As for DYKs, I agree it would not be sensible to go through years and years of previous work but I think it would be useful to include the new ones so as to encourage participation in the task force. Some of those recently included in the architecture bulletin are tagged historic houses.--Ipigott (talk) 05:53, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
Only answering your first question: yes, it is a bot problem that affects all WikiProjects. Since the recent migration of tools and bots to a new domain at wmflabs many bots have issues and WP 1.0 bot hasn't updated WikiProject tables for more than a week. --ELEKHHT 10:22, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
The bot works again, so the table should be up to date now. To celebrate the taskforce I selected a country houses article for this month to be featured on the portal. --ELEKHHT 02:29, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Template:WikiProject Historic HomesEdit

This one should probably be deleted to avoid confusion and all places where used replaced with architecture.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:23, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

I agree it would be more efficient and avoid potential confusion. There are only about 50 articles tagged with it, so it can be done manually. Should ask @Presidentman: who created the WikiProject that is now tagged as defunct if he concurs. --ELEKHHT 23:02, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
That's fine with me. The project and the task force have the same scope, so there is no need for my additional project. I simply created it due to the lack of a task force. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 14:21, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the quick reply. I see now all articles have been transferred. You are of course warmly invited to join this taskforce. --ELEKHHT 11:44, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject taskforce taggingEdit

ELEKHH requested a bot to tag WikiProject Architecture/Historic houses task force. They provided a list of categories to be tagged at Wikipedia:WikiProject Architecture/Historic houses task force/Scope. Please check the list and express your disagreements if any. The bot will start soon tagging based on that list. Thanks, Magioladitis (talk) 07:05, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi, I think this is a great start, but - realising it's a lot of work - perhaps "palaces" and "castles" should be included as well? I think there is a case for palaces, at least. In that case the geographical scope could be quite substantially expanded, as well. Yakikaki (talk) 08:18, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
The category list seems OK to me - this should include a lot of extra articles (and I would agree re palaces), but I think this will mean we need a discussion re importance rating. We currently have 165 with no importance set and although I have some ideas re which are the most important this will be influenced by my own interests and geography - how do we make this consistent?— Rod talk 08:32, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
Please feel free to edit the list by adding further uncontroversial categories. My intention at this stage wasn't to do an exhaustive list, but have the process quickly started. The current list will add over a thousand articles, so it will be a good test run. Than we can work further from there by expanding the list of categories. The bot will not rate importance - that will need to be done manually, and defining the criteria for that is a separate discussion. --ELEKHHT 09:54, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
I've added some more categories now, but I suppose to make it work well I should also add sub-categories? Yakikaki (talk) 11:10, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
Should Category:Historic house museums in England and its sub cats be added? & what about Category:Palaces in England?— Rod talk 11:20, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
The bot will only add articles in the specified categories, it will not include sub-categories. Yakikaki already added Palaces in the UK, but not its subcategories. --ELEKHHT 11:50, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. I added the subcategories, too. Yakikaki (talk) 14:19, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Starting. -- Magioladitis (talk) 21:49, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Finished. -- Magioladitis (talk) 21:48, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

@Magioladitis: Thanks 5,000 times! Finally 1.0bot did a run and updated the project table. If anyone sees problems with the tagging, please report here. I note that the vast majority are unassessed so there is a lot of work to do. --ELEKHHT 08:49, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Castles and Palaces in SwedenEdit

In the 'things to do' section, expansion of Swedish castles and palaces has been listed and specifically "most of them are called "x Castle", after the Swedish word "slott", which can signify everything from a smallish manor to a large fortress. A very good start for many of them would be to re-name and move the article". Does anyone know what is meant by this? Moving the article from, for example, Ängsö Castle, to Ängsö Slott? Or moving to something more specific in English, so Ängsö Castle to Ängsö Manor? Sotakeit (talk) 11:44, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Hello, sorry if I was vague in formulating that. My thought was to move some of the articles from e.g. Ängsö Castle to Ängsö Manor; "slott" is not an integral part of the name of the place in the same way as e.g. Buckingham Castle or Belton House, so moving it to Ängsö slott would not sound entirely right, in my ears, while using only "Ängsö" would also be wrong as this is just the name of a place and could be anything - in fact, people are apt to think it's an island, as "ö" means island. I think moving the articles to a better name form shouldn't be too much problem; at least in some cases the picture makes it relatively clear if it's a castle, a palace or a manor. But let me know if you have any further questions or need any practical help, I'll be glad to help out. And sorry for that the "To do"-section for Sweden is a bit of a mess - I'll try to clean it up when I have time. Yakikaki (talk) 11:24, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
@Sotakeit:Hello, I really do not belong to this project so I'm just butting in here. I have touched on this subject a number of times now in my work with the Swedish East India Company, especially in the draft I am currently working on. There is no clear consensus on how to describe larger Swedish buildings, especially since the Swedes themselves tend to name the buildings in a totally chaotic manner! Some of them have official translations in English (in brochures, websites or books), but they seldom correspond with the Swedish name. I recently expanded the Chinese Pavilion at Drottningholm which is actually called Kina slott (China castle) in Swedish. While others like Glimmingehus originally Glimminge hus (Glimminge house) is clearly a manor, Nyköping Castle originally Nyköpings hus (Nyköping house) actually is a castle. Some of the explanations can be found in what period the building dates from and who lived there. Swedes tend to call all larger buildings (regardless of its size) "slott" (castle) that has, at some time, been the home of a king or prominent member of the royal family. The oldest (Viking to medieval) name for "slott" is just "hus" (house). On top of this we have all the fästning (fortess) and borg (burg). I'll be happy to be part of any discussion regarding the names, since I have some ideas for guidelines.
So if Ängsö slott is to be named based on size and function, Yakikaki is right; it should be called Ängsö Manor. But if the Swedish guidelines are to be followed it is a castle since it belonged to, and housed, at least one Swedish king and several members of the royal family. You can see a parallel to this naming in Air Force One. Any aircraft carrying the President of the United States is called Air Force One, regardless if its size or design. On behalf of my countrymen, I apologize for us messing this up. Best, w.carter-Talk 18:39, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Bramshill HouseEdit

Hi. This is at peer review before nomming for FA, any input would be most welcome.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:01, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

ChateauxEdit

Would be willing to accept French chateaux into this project? I think they're very much the French equivalent of British country houses.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:17, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

West Wycombe ParkEdit

I have nominated West Wycombe Park for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here.

Potted biographies in historic house articles?Edit

Hi! Would anyone care to comment on The Grange, Broadhembury, where the inclusion in the article of mini-biographies of various inhabitants of the house is a matter of dispute? Thanks, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 08:56, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Nominating Palais Rohan, Strasbourg for A-ClassEdit

The article failed its FAC, but it was much expanded and edited in the process since it became a GA, and actually got some support: Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Palais Rohan, Strasbourg/archive1. It most probably fulfils all the criteria to be promoted A-Class. Thank you in advance to all future reviewers! --Edelseider (talk) 22:03, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Godmersham ParkEdit

The description section of the Godmersham Park article could probably benefit from a bit of padding out. What architectural features are important and what aren't is a bit outside my area of expertise. Mjroots (talk) 19:33, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Peer reviewEdit

I've begun a Peer Review of my article, Ludwigsburg Palace, here. I would appreciate some commentary and/or suggestions. –Vami_IV✠ 03:42, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

Tottenham HouseEdit

Tottenham House, an article of interest to this project, has been redirected to Tottenham, Wiltshire, and the scope/focus changed from being just about the house, to being about the history of the families who owned the estate and house. I have started a discussion at Talk:Tottenham,_Wiltshire which people may wish to get involved in. SilkTork (talk) 13:31, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

The Great Britain/Ireland DestubathonEdit

Hi. The Wikipedia:The Great Britain/Ireland Destubathon is planned for March 2020, a contest/editathon to eliminate as many stubs as possible from all 134 counties. Amazon vouchers/book prizes are planned for most articles destubbed from England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland and Northern Ireland and whoever destubs articles from the most counties out of the 134. Sign up on page if interested in participating, hope this will prove to be good fun and productive, we have over 44,000 stubs!♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:32, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Lilford HallEdit

I'm not sure how active this page is but I would appreciate any input at Talk:Lilford Hall. There is currently a discussion started by the (self declared) Hall owner discussing the status of the Hall in terms of the Houses at Risk Register. Any input to resolve the dispute would be appreciated. Woody (talk) 17:49, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Return to the project page "WikiProject Architecture/Historic houses task force".