Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation pages with links

Active discussions
          A Wikipedia ad has been created for this project page

WikiProject Disambiguation
This page is within the scope of WikiProject Disambiguation, an attempt to structure and organize all disambiguation pages on Wikipedia. If you wish to help, you can edit the page attached to this talk page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project or contribute to the discussion.

Another Wikidata head-scratcherEdit

The infobox in Eye of the Beholder (video game) calls Eye Of The Beholder (a miscapitalised redirect to the DAB page Eye of the Beholder) by way of wikidata:Q1385731. There were three games in the original series (I've just added the second and third to the DAB page), but there is no article about it. Deletion from Q1385731 might be the answer; but I throw my hands up and the question over. Narky Blert (talk)

Template:Infobox GAA playerEdit

Aaand another one! In Mary Geaney and Rena Buckley, |icallireland= in Template:Infobox GAA player expands as [[All-Ireland Senior Championship|All-Irelands]]; and All-Ireland Senior Championship is, inevitably, a DAB page. Matters are made no easier by the fact that they both won both the All-Ireland Senior Club Camogie Championship and the All-Ireland Senior Ladies' Football Championship. Compare Template talk:Infobox Gaelic Athletic Association player#A link to a DAB page, where a fix was found for players active in only one code. Narky Blert (talk) 09:59, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

I'm no expert on Gaelic sports. If camogie has similar status to football and hurling then we should use |icallirelandf= and request a new |icallirelandc= parameter. If not then we might just omit the camogie titles as we would for a less significant sport. For "dual" players (the template recognises only football and hurling), a table is produced. No one has won all-Ireland championships in both sports. though several such as Tomás Brady have other types of honour in both columns. Certes (talk) 09:48, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
Men play hurling, women play camogie: very similar sports. The two men's sports have pretty much equal status; I imagine the two women's sports do also; camogie may even have the higher, it's certainly commonly played in schools. One place to ask might be at Wikipedia:WikiProject Gaelic games, although it doesn't seem exactly lively. Narky Blert (talk) 15:15, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
I've had a go but I think this needs someone with a clue, either to produce a parallel template that works for female players or to add a new gender parameter. (Is there a standard name and value for that?) Other changes will be needed, some of which may not be obvious to the layman. For example, one number in the table should link to All-Ireland Senior Ladies' Football Championship rather than the male equivalent. Many such articles don't exist: Kildare Senior Camogie Championship is a rare exception. Certes (talk) 16:08, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
The answer already exists, and I've just fallen across it by accident (grrr): Template:Infobox GAA dualplayer. See Tom Irwin (dual player). Narky Blert (talk) 14:24, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
I'm afraid that's just another redirect to the same infobox. It deals well with football and hurling but not with camogie. Certes (talk) 14:45, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
As a former programmer I hate to suggest this sort of thing, but one solution could be to clone Template:Infobox GAA dualplayer to Template:Infobox female GAA dualplayer, and tweak it appropriately. Narky Blert (talk) 15:18, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
I agree that may be the least bad solution. Alternatively we could add a gender parameter. Raised at Template talk:Infobox Gaelic Athletic Association player#Camogie. Certes (talk) 18:46, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

Template:S-rail-nationalEdit

Template:S-rail-national is yet another railway station template which assumes that station names are unique and which has no obvious way of disambiguation. In this case, Halifax railway station in Elland railway station. Narky Blert (talk) 16:30, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

  Fixed with |county1=West Yorkshire. Certes (talk) 16:45, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
Nova Scotia and Massachusetts are counties? Oh nevermind, one size fits all. Narky Blert (talk) 21:40, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
{{S-rail-national}} with |county1= do a similar job for Great Britain as {{S-line}} with |state1= do elsewhere, if you pretend that Nova Scotia is a state. Certes (talk) 22:52, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

Hatnote QuestionEdit

I put a link to a disambiguation page in a hatnote at the top of an article. I got a message from User:DPL bot. I guess my question is whether, if the disambiguation page is primary, I am still supposed to put (disambiguation) in the hatnote just so that both the bot and human editors will know that I am doing that on purpose. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:38, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

WP:INTDAB has good advice. I usually copy the final example with {{!}}, which avoids displaying "(disambiguation)", but other editors prefer the alternative format above it. However, we can consider removing a hatnote altogether per WP:NAMB if the article's full title doesn't describe other entries on the dab. Certes (talk) 16:54, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

User:DPL bot .... extend to redirect pages?Edit

I'm looking ahead beyond some current work to restructure the top pages in the climate change subject area. When the dust has settled I expect "climate change" will be a redirect page pointing at global warming or "global warming" will redirect to climate change, or both with redirect to some other title, perhaps global warming and climate change. Whatever.... I'm thinking people will link to the redirect pages, and it would be nice to have something like User DPL bot to send them a notice.

Does that exist? If not, would it be helpful? NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 01:54, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

No; and I don't think so. Links to disambiguation pages are strongly discouraged. Links to redirects aren't. In some situations they are actively encouraged (see MOS:REDIR). Robotically bypassing suxh links would be undesirable. --R'n'B (call me Russ) 02:21, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
The redirects add value by ensuring that wikilinks will still lead to the best destination in a future where global warming and climate change are different articles, different sections of an article or otherwise distinguished. Certes (talk) 10:30, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

reset I'm not sure I expressed myself well, so please allow me to try again. The idea is KEEP the redirect pages and KEEP existing links to them. GOING FORWARD.... when an editor adds new content, .... would it be worth gently encouraging users to consider adding their new content with links directly to target articles, instead of adding links to redirects? NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 10:44, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Sometimes, but it's hard to work out when. Linking to a {{R from misspelling}} is almost always a mistake. Linking to a {{R with possibilities}} is usually correct: someone may write the missing article. Many redirects are classified imperfectly or not at all. Certes (talk) 10:56, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
Thanks and this makes my point rather well... only really experienced editors even know about those nuances much less think about them. So a gentle message when a new link to a redir appears would help educate people and really shorten the learning curve. It doesn't mean they would be obligated to change their new redir link. Just think about it.... In that way, when a subject area gets an overhaul, there will be far less work of this sort to review. Seems like wins all around... greater gentle education, upfront increase in skillful linking, reduction of long-term maintenance chores. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 11:15, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
This could be of interest to Wikipedia:WikiProject Redirect. I can imagine something along the lines of User:InceptionBot, which daily scans new pages and assigns them quality scores in various project areas. The task here would be the simpler one of reporting new links through redirects, no sub-classification necessary. Links which redirect to DAB pages could be ignored: User:DPL bot finds those. Narky Blert (talk) 13:14, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
There are already reports for redirect links which actually need correction; Wikipedia:Database reports/Linked misspellings and Wikipedia:Database reports/Linked miscapitalizations. But there is nothing wrong with linking to most redirects. I would assume that editors adding links have already thought about it, and actively chose the words they linked. Corpse redirects to cadaver which is an article about the subset of corpses that end up being used in medical research/training. There should probably be a separate article on the broad concept of corpses. If people want to write the word cadaver and link to it specifically, they will do so. If they write the word corpse and link to it, they probably have a reason for using the word corpse instead of cadaver. Plantdrew (talk) 16:33, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
Re the I would assume part..., that's kind of ironic. Just a couple days ago I was talking with someone about editors who link ambiguous titles without checking them, and end up linking something they never intended. I agree with your edit summary that redirects are NOTBROKEN but making decisions based on faulty assumptions of human nature might be. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 17:10, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Today's annoying railway station templateEdit

In Alderson station, {{Adjacent stations|system=Chesapeake and Ohio|line=Main Line|left=Hinton|right=Ronceverte}} links to the DAB page Hinton station. Hinton station (West Virginia) says that it's that one. I seriously cannot find the energy to try to understand the mechanics of 'labour-saving' templates of this sort. It's enough bother to find out what's causing the error. Narky Blert (talk) 13:04, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

  Fixed in Module:Adjacent stations/Chesapeake and Ohio. The templates can be a good idea when an expert gets it right in one place and the results appear in many places. They're not so useful when the station was omitted or the results appear in only one place. Certes (talk) 13:27, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

An (ahem) problematic templateEdit

A template used in , seemingly some sort of misbegotten child of Template:Latin alphabet/main, links to (count 'em) 116 DAB pages and 8 probably-wrong pages. I have no idea how it is doing that, but suspect from the pattern that some code is creating every possible two-character combination which includes 's' or 'S' and merrily linking to whatever it finds.

My suggestion would be to either kill it with fire or nuke it from space before it does further damage, but don't know which button to press or lever to pull. Other suggestions, or indeed actual button-pressing or lever-pulling, would be welcome. Narky Blert (talk) 23:15, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

  Fixed. I changed the parameter to {{Latin script}} from S to S̩. When the parameter is a straight letter A-Z, the block with letter pairs is shown, which we don't want because it's a dabfest. Certes (talk) 23:49, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Template:Taxonomy/StromatellaEdit

Template:Taxonomy/Stromatella calls the DAB page Stromatella rather than Stromatella (alga). This is another template where trying a piped or a pseudopiped link generates display errors. Narky Blert (talk) 17:44, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

  Fixed. The naive approach of setting the link= parameter to Stromatella (alga)|Stromatella (literally |, not {{!}} or other cleverness) works in such cases. That sets the link= parameter to Stromatella (alga) and creates an unnamed parameter 1 set to Stromatella which is used as the display text. Certes (talk) 18:04, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
I imagine it all depends on the exact sequence of operations in the template code, as well as on whether that code recognises an attempted override and executes a bypass. Good, eh? Narky Blert (talk) 22:59, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

can User:DPL bot be programmed to ignore certain articles?Edit

I received a message from it after editing List of adjectival and demonymic forms for countries and nations, however this article intentionally links to disambiguation pages as it concerns the words themselves. If they are not already could such articles be whitelisted to prevent these DPL from being removed by mistake? Snizzbut (talk) 18:09, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

@Snizzbut: DPL bot has been programmed to ignore links ending in (disambiguation), even if they lead to redirects. If you really want to link to the disambiguation page X then you can link via the redirect X (disambiguation), as has been done with Abkhaz on that page. Further information: WP:INTDAB. Certes (talk) 18:23, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

A Wikidata problemEdit

The infobox in François Barbé-Marbois is fetching a link to the DAB page statesman from Wikidata. The link is presumably buried somewhere in wikidata:Q708732. He's already listed as a politician, so this entry seems redundant (it's a weasel word - the leader of my party is a statesman, the leader of yours is a politician). Narky Blert (talk) 08:51, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

Yes, according to Wikidata he had occupation d:Q372436 which Wikidata links to enwiki page Statesman. Except for items about dabs (like d:Q48397), I don't think it's valid to link a dab there; it should be an article like the linked frwiki page fr:Homme d'État. We should probably edit d:Q372436 to link a more appropriate enwiki page but I don't see a better candidate. Articles like Public figure have their own separate Wikidata items. Perhaps we should just unlink the dab in Wikidata. Certes (talk) 10:25, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

Template:North America topicEdit

It's been a while since I came across one of these one-size-fits-all uncustomisable templates. In Outline of North America, Template:North America topic, customised as 'Ecoregions of North America', calls the redirect List of ecoregions in the United States, which points to the DAB page Lists of ecoregions in the United States. Narky Blert (talk) 16:52, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

One view is that the link leads to the right page but that page should be a list of lists rather than a dab. There is an active debate at WT:D#Disambiguation pages for composite titles derived from an ambiguous term and, most relevantly, in the following section about Korean actors. Certes (talk) 17:04, 26 November 2019 (UTC)
In Outline of North America, Template:North America topic (under the heading 'Ecoregions of North America') also links directly to the DAB page Lists of ecoregions in the United States. For added confusion, the same article also calls Lists of ecoregions in the United States (disambiguation) from somewhere else. Narky Blert (talk) 15:48, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
The discussion I linked above didn't reach a conclusion but I still don't see Lists of ecoregions in the United States as a dab. Perhaps the singular should be, but the plural looks like a list of lists to me. Certes (talk) 16:41, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Template:Infobox NCAA Ice Hockey Conference TournamentEdit

It's one of those days. In 2017 WCHA Men's Ice Hockey Tournament, 2018 WCHA Men's Ice Hockey Tournament and 2019 WCHA Men's Ice Hockey Tournament, |MOP= in Template:Infobox NCAA Ice Hockey Conference Tournament expands to Most Outstanding Player; which, to nobody's surprise, is a DAB page.

In these three cases, the answer is WCHA Most Outstanding Player in Tournament. In others, it might be List of NCAA Division I Ice Hockey Tournament Most Outstanding Player. Narky Blert (talk) 17:17, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

The template needs to change. None of the other headings are linked, but this is a NOA. Perhaps it should link to Most valuable player, which is what the WCHA award was called until 2017. Otherwise we'll need a new parameter such as |MOPlink=, which should be an easy change. Certes (talk) 17:54, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

Template:DDSCEdit

In Divorce demography, Template:DDSC produces a "(more info)" link to the DAB page Divorce in the United Kingdom, with no obvious way of stopping it. I assume that the figures are for the whole UK, but am not sure. If they are, then a link through the (disambiguation) qualifier would work; except that it seems that no-one gets divorced in Northern Ireland. Narky Blert (talk) 15:10, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Another ambiguous link from WikidataEdit

In Jens Juel (diplomat), the caption in the infobox is creating a circular link to the DAB page Jens Juel. Narky Blert (talk) 12:41, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

  Fixed by adding an English media legend to d:Q744011. Certes (talk) 14:00, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Template:SubinEdit

If Template:Subin does provide a way of disambiguating a link (the documentation is bordering unintelligible), the one attempted in Lisa Dahlkvist for Jessica Samuelsson doesn't work. Narky Blert (talk) 12:55, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

  Fixed but it's not pretty. The wikitext in the article implies that a fifth parameter would be used as a wikilink target, but {{{5}}} isn't used in the template. It could be added, but I'm not sure what other assumptions that might disappoint. It also doesn't handle names such as Son Heung-min with surname before given name(s), let alone Park Jae-hong (footballer, born 1978). Certes (talk) 14:16, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Yet another ambiguous link from WikidataEdit

The Wikidata import in the infobox in Julia Bax links to the DAB page Kaos. This link suffers from the trifling disadvantage that there is no relevant article in either English or Portuguese WP. Narky Blert (talk) 11:29, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

  Fixed by manually specifying the awards. I don't like doing this as the page may become outdated when more awards are added to Wikidata, but the alternative of fixing the templates to stop treating Wikidata titles as wikilinks doesn't seem imminent. Certes (talk) 12:41, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

A puzzleEdit

Bids for the 2019 Pan American Games links to DAB page La Punta - according to User:DPL bot and what-links-here, but I can't see how. I bookmarked the page 6 (or possibly 12) weeks ago hoping that the problem would go away, but it hasn't.

My guess is that |candidate2= in Template:Infobox Pan American Games bid may be checking for an article, but ignoring the bit after the comma while creating a blacklink. Narky Blert (talk) 10:40, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

  Fixed in {{Infobox Pan American Games bid/Map}}. (As you say, {{Infobox Pan American Games bid}} does use {{#ifexist:{{{candidate2}}}..., but it doesn't manipulate the string to remove the suffix.) Certes (talk) 11:34, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Another railway station problemEdit

The infobox in Munich East station calls the DAB page Taufkirchen in a very obscure manner, possibly by way of Template:s-line; very obscure, because Taufkirchen is only mentioned once in main text; where it links to Taufkirchen, Hugo-Junkers-Straße (MVV). There is also a hidden link to Taufkirchen, Lilienthalstraße (MVV). Narky Blert (talk) 15:45, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

  Fixed in {{MVV lines}} and added to the guide. Certes (talk) 17:13, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

Enigma - remaining dab linkEdit

What is currently wrong with the Enigma dab? It still hows one link. I fixed every reference in the article namespace I could find. The only ones left are redirects, and those seem legitimate. What's currently causing this to be flagged? Coastside (talk) 19:46, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

@Coastside: Where does it still show one link? Perhaps it was an article which used to link to Enigma within a navbox or other template which has been fixed. These can take time to disappear from the lists of links. Certes (talk) 00:36, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
@Certes: Thanks for the reply. It is currently #514 on the todo list of this Project page.Coastside (talk)
@Coastside and Certes: I base my ideas on guesswork and modified hand-waving rather than anything imagination-destroying like facts.
WP:DPL#To do (WPTD) is refreshed at the beginning of each month. It harvests the top 1000 from Disambiguation pages with links (DPwL), which is refreshed every 12 hours (except when WMF makes a high-level improvement, and it crashes). For most of the year, DPwL bumbles along with 5000-6000 entries. However, around Yuletide in 2018 and 2019 it got hammered down to under 2000 (perhaps Santa's elves had completed their factory orders early, and decided to do some WikiGnoming instead; the record low was 953, on 2 January 2019 – less than the number of flags in Category:Articles with links needing disambiguation!).
The top half at least of WPTD right now seems to be chockablock with things tagged as {{dn}} (i.e. too difficult). Not all DABfixers look at WPTD; I never do, I work from DPwL. Therefore I never mark entries in WPTD as done, because I don't see them. (There are also several other ways of getting at DABlinks.) Full-time DABfixers (we have no lives) now spend January looking for links to fix while trying to avoid tripping over each other. In the days when there were tens of thousands of links in DPwL (see WP:TDD#Table 1 Column 1), it was very likely that WPTD gnomes would get to any given link in WPTD first, and there would be no collision. Now that the number is down in the low thousands, anyone might.
An orphan link in WPTD like Enigma isn't a bug: it's a measure of this project's success. Wetware is outcompeting software. Narky Blert (talk) 22:07, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

A Template:jct problemEdit

List of Nova Scotia provincial highways twice calls the DAB page Nova Scotia Trunk 32. (Search for the {{dn}} tags to find the links.) The links are assembled from data items passed to {{jct}}. While that has a wide variety of bells and whistles, none of them seems to enable overriding of the autogenerated link.

The first link (in the table) should be to Northwest Arm Drive. The second link (in the list) should be to Nova Scotia Route 332#History. Narky Blert (talk) 10:21, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

I've looked into this and tested what I think should fix it, but it doesn't work. I'm awaiting advice at Template talk:Jct#dab parameter. Certes (talk) 14:29, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
  Fixed in Module:Road data/strings/CAN/NS and the list. Certes (talk) 15:46, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Potential nominated for deletionEdit

The broad-concept article Potential has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Potential. I note this here because the intent of the nominator appears to be to point all of the incoming links to that page to the disambiguation page currently at Potential (disambiguation). BD2412 T 19:53, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Another railway station problemEdit

Changping railway station (Beijing) links to the DAB page Zhangjiakou railway station. I think it's a reasonable bet that it's not meant to be the station which closed in 2014. Amusingly, the link is generated somewhere other than in the article. Narky Blert (talk) 17:47, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

  Fixed in Module:Adjacent stations/China Railway. Certes (talk) 17:59, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
Return to the project page "Disambiguation pages with links".