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Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Haane Manahi

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by Eddie891 (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 14:20, 7 December 2020 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

Haane Manahi edit

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Nominator(s): Zawed (talk)

Haane Manahi (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

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In a change from New Zealand VC recipients, I am nominating for A-Class the biography of a New Zealand Māori who was awarded the Distinguished Conduct Medal under controversial circumstances for an action in Tunisia, towards the end of the fighting in North Africa during the Second World War. This was one of my earlier GA efforts, dating back to 2012; I have revised and updated it a bit over the past few days. Thanks to all those who stop by to review. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 05:00, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Images are freely licensed (t · c) buidhe 09:24, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

CommensSupport by CPA-5 edit

  • soldier of Te Arawa and Ngāti Raukawa descent who What are those groups, ethnicity, tribes etc? I think it could be handy to explain it here.
  • They are iwi (tribe). Have clarified. Zawed (talk) 06:52, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • in 1913, Manahi worked as a laborer before You mean "labourer"?
  • Yes, NZ English should apply here. Zawed (talk) 06:52, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • He participated in the Battle of Greece and fought in the Battle of Crete during Maybe add a year here?
  • through the Western Desert and Tunisian Campaigns during --> "through the Western Desert and Tunisian campaigns during"
  • Of Te Arawa and Ngāti Raukawa descent on his father's Same as above what are those groups, ethnicity, tribes etc?
  • having spent two months in Egypt, arrived in Greece Maybe add and pipe those links to those back-then countries?
  • where it boarded a transport ship for Crete --> "where it boarded a transport ship for the island Crete"?
  • Optional: On Crete, the Allies dug in for the expected --> "On the island, the Allies dug in for the expected"
  • This isn't addressed.
  • I felt since island had been added in the previous sentence it wasn't necessary to use in this one. Zawed (talk) 06:12, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oh that seems reasonable. Thanks for replying.
  • withdraw to the southwest in the following days Do Kiwis use "southwest" without a hyphen, space or without?
  • I had to look this up - we hyphenate it apparently, so that's what I've done here. Zawed (talk) 08:21, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • winning the freestyle 46 metres (50 yd) race Since New Zealand didn't use metrics shouldn't imperial units be the primary units?
  • Switched the conversion around. The source did refer to yards anyway. Zawed (talk) 08:21, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • In late May 1942 Rommel and the Afrika Korps Rommel who, the Desert Fox?
  • Clarified. I had the formation slightly wrong, updated it. Zawed (talk) 08:21, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link "prisoners of war", "Allies", "platoon', "battalion", "5th Infantry Brigade", "Axis" and "New Zealand Government".
  • Done, except for 5th Infantry Brigade, that was already linked.
  • held by soldiers of the Italian Trieste Division's I/66° Battalion Pipe Italian to the Kingdom of Italy.
  • Takrouna was a hill, 300 metres (330 yd) high Same as above. No imperial units first?
  • Isn't it "counter-attack" instead without hyphen?
  • I see a lot of "howevers" maybe reduce them?
  • The "The Preliminary Report on the Haane Manahi Victoria Cross Claim" source goes to the recently-passed New Zealand's referendum page?
  • That's bizarre. I reviewed it just before nominating it for A-Class and it was correct then. I have found a replacement url. Zawed (talk) 08:21, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The "Takrouna" section is gigantic if you compare it with the other sections may be split it?
  • I prefer to keep it as it as it is since it covers one single action. Zawed (talk) 08:21, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I also see the "References" section does use both 10/13 ISBNs maybe standardise them?

That's anything from me. I'm happy to review and see a native Maori WWII soldier. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 21:51, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review. I have responded as above. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 08:21, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
CPA-5, just a ping in case you haven't seen this. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 07:27, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Only one comment isn't addressed the rest looks good. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 19:59, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I couldn't find anything else thus there's no reason to give you my support. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 15:48, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Gog the Mild edit

  • "local schools in the area". Perhaps a touch of redundancy?
  • Yes, agreed, done away with the redundancy. Zawed (talk) 02:46, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Manahi was one of the first men to enlist in November 1939". This reads as if he were one of hte first too enlist in November, which I assume is not what you mean.
  • "Manahi returned to the Māori Battalion". Is it known when?
  • Have clarified this a little. I caught a cite error at the same time, so have sorted this as well. Zawed (talk) 02:46, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Back in 2012 when I first expanded this article, I thought it had to be. Have done away with italics for operation codenames. Zawed (talk) 02:46, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "a German tank which had been stuck in B Company's trenches". Perhaps 'which had become stuck'?
  • "Encircled by the Germans, the division was forced to breakout on 26 June". Could the engagement this was part of be mentioned? And perhaps Wikilinked to?
  • "Manahi and his company was involved in a bayonet charge against well dug in Germans that had resisted a previous attack by another battalion." Is the outcome of B Company's charge known?
  • "due to heavy gunfire from the enemy." "gunfire" covers a range of things. If there is more detail, could it be given? Eg 'artillery fire', 'machinegun fire' or whatever.
  • "to take his platoon of 12 men". 13 men seems very few for a platoon. Is there a story worth summarising as to the background to this?
  • It is not explicitly stated but it was probably as a result of casualties earlier in the fighting at Takrouna. I've changed the wording to party though. Zawed (talk) 02:46, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "A further platoon arrived to further consolidate his position." "further ... further". Suggest replacing the first with 'additional'.
  • "Manahi, as one of the original members of the Māori Battalion" Is it known how many of the original members of the battalion were still serving with it at this point?
  • "He was not to return to the war for it was later decided that the Māori soldiers on furlough would be exempt from active duty." 1. I am not sure that "later" adds anything, it seems implicit to me. 2. Perhaps 'further active duty'?

A splendidly written article. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:32, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Gog the Mild, thanks for taking a gander at this one. I have responded as above. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 02:46, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Hog Farm edit

I'll take a look at this over the next couple days. Hog Farm Bacon 05:54, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • "Manahi worked as a labourer before he volunteered for service in the newly raised Māori Battalion of the New Zealand Military Forces following the outbreak of the Second World War" - Worth providing an exact date in this sentence?
  • Rephrased to put the month he volunteered. Zawed (talk) 09:44, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Early life section has a lot of sentences starting with he or his. Can this be varied a bit?
  • I've rearranged this somewhat to eliminate two of the usages of concern. Zawed (talk) 09:44, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Seems a little odd that Battle of Crete is never linked nor mentioned by name in the relevant section.
  • Have rephrased and linked. Zawed (talk) 09:44, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and was eventually evacuated from Crete on 31 May" - to where?
  • Maybe gloss where exactly Baggush Box was?
  • Have provided some context wrt to El Alamein. Zawed (talk) 09:44, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In late August, no attack had been launched" - Would "in" or "by" be better here?
  • "against well dug in Germans" - Not 100% for sure about this, but should dug in be hyphenated, since its an adjective?
  • From my Google research, yes, it seems appropriate to be hyphenated. Zawed (talk) 09:44, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Takrouna is never linked in the body
  • Do we know when Manahi was promoted to lange sergeant?
  • Was at the time of the Takrouna action, I have added mention of his "fresh" promotion. Zawed (talk) 09:44, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lieutenant General Freyberg - Add his first name, as well
  • "Despite the support of four generals, his VC nomination was downgraded to an award of a Distinguished Conduct Medal (DCM)" - Body seems to list five: Kippenberger, Freyburg, Wilson, Montgomery, and Alexander
  • Kippenberger was a brigadier so it depends whether one considers this to be a general officer rank or not. I've gone with not here since the word general doesn't appear in the rank and I think it would be confusing for readers not overly familiar with the nuances. Zawed (talk) 09:44, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Tidy article, that's it from me, I think. Hog Farm Bacon 05:39, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hog Farm, thanks for taking the time to review this article, it is appreciated. I have made various edits and comments in response to your points above. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 09:44, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - pass edit

The sources used all appear to me to be reliable. I am unable to find any other sources which would materially add to the content of the article. The sources referred to seem to support the text cited, insofar as I have checked them. I found no unattributed close paraphrasing. Everything that I would expect to be cited, is. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:28, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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