Wikipedia

Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2017 September 10

< Wikipedia:Templates for discussion‎ | Log
< September 9 September 11 >

September 10 edit

Template:Paraphilia-related support groups edit

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 20:06, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

unused and blanked Frietjes (talk) 14:17, 3 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • unused I think this is not too much relevant in wikipedia. AlfaRocket (talk) 11:24, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong keep. I put the template back in use again. Disk space is cheap. Please, let's wait a few months. If, by the end of the few months, the template is again unused, please feel free to nominate it again; but, for now, let's keep it. TealHill (talk) 20:10, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 23:39, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - This is unused, Wikipedia is not for redundancies being kept around for the sake of it. The cost of disk space is meaningless, it has do with keeping Wikipedia focused as an encyclopedia. If there is a potential future use, then transpose this to a sandbox, find actual uses, and then apply to recreate. At the moment, this is serving no purpose. Sport and politics (talk) 21:17, 11 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: TealHill restored it, but the same issues from last time exist. This is not the way that templates should be created. TealHill also likes to create sections with nothing but this template in it, like he recently did, which is not how we are supposed to create sections. Sections are not supposed to consist of nothing but a template (unless it's something like an External links section consisting solely of a template). Ideally, per MOS:Paragraphs, sections also should not consist of a single sentence. I will alert WP:Med to this discussion. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 00:03, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Not a suitable template. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 16:22, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, whatever this is (article content?), or whatever its intended use, this is not a suitable template. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 16:41, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. From the documentation: "This template is meant to be transcluded into the relevant section of various articles." As we don't write the content of encyclopedia articles by cobbling together identical pre-written chunks of text into multiple articles, this template is not useful on Wikipedia. --RexxS (talk) 17:41, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Batsmen with a ODI batting average above 40 edit

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Primefac (talk) 14:11, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

As per discussion, this template is no more useful with deletion of the page List of cricket batting averages. Also, 40 number is arbitrary. Greenbörg (talk) 01:00, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • delete. Arbitrary inclusion criteria (why 40?, why 20?, why include the Netherlands/not other countries?), too large and cluttered for a navigation box. Would make more sense as a list you could sort, navigation wise, but as that’s already been deleted no point keeping this.--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 23:03, 3 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The size can be changed by raising the inclusion threshold from 40 to 45. I don't understand what you mean by the the inclusion of the Netherlands. It lists ODI players by country - the Netherlands has had a couple who qualify, but is no longer an ODI country. StAnselm (talk) 00:09, 11 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • delete I think this is not too much relevant in wikipedia. AlfaRocket (talk) 11:21, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 23:34, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It will be useful if you show some coverage in WP:RS for this benchmark. Greenbörg (talk) 15:15, 11 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
As I've said in the past, I would be happy to raise it to 45. StAnselm (talk) 20:31, 11 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the parent article is now List of One Day International cricket records, which lists the top five averages. StAnselm (talk) 20:31, 11 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Myeloid blood tests edit

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was Split. Go ahead! (non-admin closure) Winged Blades of GodricOn leave 06:17, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Propose splitting Template:Myeloid blood tests.
Proposing to SPLIT the template into 2 templates, one relating to clotting, and one relating to RBCs and Hb. It's unusual to have these two topics grouped together, and I don't think the fact that RBCs and platelets are of myeloid lineage justifies this. Thoughts? Tom (LT) (talk) 01:44, 23 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 23:09, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 23:30, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:8TeamBracket-with third-fifth-seventh edit

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was merge to Template:8TeamBracket-with third-fifth-seventh per the rather thorough breakdown of the differences in the discussion. Primefac (talk) 14:16, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Propose merging Template:8TeamBracket-with third-fifth-seventh and Template:Round8-with play-offs.
Nearly the same, only excluding the seedings. 333-blue 10:05, 23 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Template:8TeamBracket-with third-fifth-seventh (A) has advantages over Template:Round8-with play-offs (B) in my opinion. A calls the 5th to 8th place semi finals exactly what they are but B calls this round the "crossover" round. This is not very specific and a strange choice of name for the round – I've never seen "crossover" used as the name of this round in this form of tournament outside of this template. A also uses red and green lines to show which way the winners and losers proceeded in the bracket but B only uses red lines for the losers. And finally A uses thicker borders around the main rounds (quarter finals, semi finals and final) to make it clear to the reader which rounds were the focus of the tournament. B uses the same border thickness for all rounds, be it a main round or a consolation round, which makes it less visually prominent to readers which rounds are the main ones. TurboGUY (talk) 17:20, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 23:08, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 23:30, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Islamic terrorism in Europe (2014–present) edit

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was no consensus. There are definitely some valid concerns regarding this template, and the OR/SYNTH possibilities of "what do we include here". There are also valid reasons for keeping, namely the navigation aspect. The actual vote counts are almost split. Compounding the issue is the presence of two templates, of which comments either pertained to one or the other (but rarely both).

I recommend that a discussion take place to determine the "rules" for including wikilinks in these templates. If this can be sorted out (and possibly also a name change discussion) then I suspect many of the issues regarding these templates will be solved. However, iff these changes are made and there are still valid concerns for deleting the templates, there is no prejudice against renomination, though waiting 2-3 months would be ideal (if only to allow for discussions to start/finish appropriately). Primefac (talk) 14:46, 2 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This template is highly selective and relies on individual points of view as to what is and is not included in this. This template will also easily and unstoppably fall foul of the rules on original research due to the very nature of what is and is not terrorism. The template will also fall foul of recent-ism and pure news coverage, due to the nature of this topic. Finally and fatally in my opinion for this template, there is no need for this unnecessary duplication of information which is already included in list format on the page which this article takes all of its information on. This is a redundant template of duplication. Sport and politics (talk) 10:35, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep as it provides navigation between articles. I don't agree it is based on original research. Check its article and give suggestions rather asking for deletion. Greenbörg (talk) 10:43, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The navigation is provided by the main article, linking these articles together in this manner is a form of WP:synthesis. which is part of the WP:OR policy, and not allowed. Sport and politics (talk) 10:45, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge or Delete, Over and above the "what is included" question mentioned by 'Sport', the start date (2014) is postulated on a piece of WP:OR, namely that in early 2014 a call was issued by ISIS for it's followers to 'attack at home' and that all subsequent attacks in Europe are a result of that call .... even those where no connection to ISIS exists, or a known connection to another org is demonstrable. I have long argued that the whole category, template and main article are riddled with OR and SYNTH. If a category, template or article exists, they should be based on agreed, objective rational criteria. This should be merged or deleted. Did Islamic terrorism start in Europe in 2014 (in France perhaps, elsewhere in Europe there was not even an increase at that time). Is there the remotest connection between the mainly 'home grown' attacks in Western Europe and the attacks in Russia? Where do the distinct attacks in Turkey, (one part of which is in Europe and therefore within this template), fit into that picture? Pincrete (talk) 11:20, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per Pincrete. (((The Quixotic Potato))) (talk) 14:55, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - provides useful navigation between articles and seems to be standard practice on Wikipedia for militant campaigns, for example we have Template:Campaignbox Syrian Civil War and Template:Syrian Civil War. Obviously, on these articles themselves there are always going to be a certain demography of white North-Western European/North American middle-class people, of liberal political persuasion, absolutely desperate to remove the word "terrorism" from these articles (as has happen on 2017 Stockholm attack, June 2017 London Bridge attack and more recently 2017 Catalonia attacks), but such content debates should probably be on specific articles rather than templates. Claíomh Solais (talk) 15:38, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Elementary my Dear Watson! I won't bother to ask how you divined the skin-colour, social class, political affiliation and geo-location, of those who disagree with you. Can you not see the difference between an actual war and largely random phenomena? What exactly unites Kurdish terrorist acts in Turkey, seperatist acts in Russia and lone wolves in western Europe? At the very least criteria should be coherent. This is almost as silly as "robberies committed by left-handed people". Pincrete (talk) 23:13, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. In addition to the points brought up above, I'd like to point out that an RfC on the main article failed to clarify the scope and inclusion criteria. In response to the argument that this is standard practice for militant campaigns, I'll refer you to this lengthy discussion at List of ongoing armed conflicts which resulted in it being removed from that list for reasons of WP:Original research with regards to the parameters by which the entry was defined (timeframe, geographic location, and the individuals committing the acts of violence). TompaDompa (talk) 16:32, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as is pure WP:OR/WP:SYNTH. 1) The 2014 start date is arbitrary. 2) The geographical scope (Europe) is arbitrary. 3) The incidents featured are arbitrary and not necessarily WP:RS confirmed as Islamic terrorism and per WP:YESPOV we should not be asserting opinion as fact in what is effecively Wikipedia's voice. -- de Facto (talk). 19:50, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
WP: SYNTHNOT. That only applies to original research by synthesis, not just any synthesis. Calicodragon (talk) 22:02, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You're comparing a template to categories, which is an entirely different subject. We're not discussing Category:Islamic terrorism in Europe here.
While it is in theory true that European security and legal authorities designate which acts are Islamic terrorism (we could, and sometimes do, use Europol as a source), what counts as "Europe" is neither obvious nor uncontroversial (should Russia and Turkey be included? Should it perhaps be limited to the EU or Western Europe?) – and more to the point does not really reflect WP:Reliable sources, which as I pointed out in the RfC mentioned above refer to terrorist activity in the West.
The start year, 2014, is also not supported by the sources. Looking at the main article, it seems to have been chosen based on the Jewish Museum of Belgium shooting. That's textbook WP:Original research.
As it stands, the scope is a compromise between several possible but irreconcilable scopes. For example, the infobox describes it as part of the spillover of the Syrian Civil War, but the list isn't limited to attacks that are related to it. Apart from being WP:Synthesis, it also runs afoul of WP:LISTCRITERIA, which says Selection criteria (also known as inclusion criteria or membership criteria) should be unambiguous, objective, and supported by reliable sources. That is simply not the case here. TompaDompa (talk) 11:27, 3 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Definite Keep - Useful for navigating between related events. Reaper7 (talk) 14:09, 3 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete This is highly subjective and extremely arbitary. Why would you start things in 2014 as the Madrid and London bombings started earlier? To what extent are all the events in the box genuinely "Islamic" as opposed to political. Contaldo80 (talk) 08:40, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment As long as the article is on WP, I can see no argument of deleting this template. It's been used for navigation purposes based on the article Islamic terrorism in Europe (2014–present). Discussion should move to the article first. Greenbörg (talk) 09:06, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete unused, I find it not good and not important for wikipedia.,if it was the opposite it would not be here on the cancellation page. AlfaRocket (talk) 11:20, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm going to ask the closing admin to ignore, and deduct, this vote from the initial tally (don't pretend you don't do a numbers tally first) and then again from the consensus decision. The templates are heavily used; 2016 Nice attack, 2016 Brussels bombing, 2017 Stockholm attack etc and etc (just look at the templates themselves as they appear on many of the linked articles) while the rest of the !vote has nothing to do with any policy/guideline or even essay. This is a common !vote from AlfaRocket who is a relatively new editor and needs much more experience and familiarity with policy before attempting these discussions. Mr rnddude (talk) 11:41, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: This is a useful template for quick navigation between political Islamic terrorist attack pages, It is hardly subjective, it is quite easy to spot an Islamic terrorist attack. TBrandley (talk) 12:00, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • @TBrandley:I invite you to demonstrate this simplicity on the talk page of the main article. I have a strong feeling the sweeping claim will be ripped apart on the talk page. Sport and politics (talk) 09:54, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: A template not only useful but critical for navigating between articles that are related and linked to the same phenomena by a ton of sources across virtually all news agencies and sources. If the scope of time is the main problem, it should be no problem to make it a general template of Islamic terrorism in Europe regardless of time, thus also including earlier events. User2534 (talk) 16:26, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • @User2534: Critical. Wow! That's amazing. What have we been doing all this time. Stuck with orphan articles we would never have been able to find. We would never have realised our errors until you came along and pointed out this magic. Oh wait, in-article links and categories exist. Sport and politics (talk) 09:54, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not all Muslims who commit crime are terrorists, reading a comment which states or implies that that is the case, or even potentially is the case, is just incredible. Sport and politics (talk) 16:09, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Obviously there is also non-terrorist crime performed by Muslims. You parsed my comment the wrong way - I meant that if the alleged perp of a terrorist attack was Muslim - we should (with perhaps few exceptions - e.g. a clear other motive) classify it as an Islamic terror attack - which is a simple, non-POV, criteria. Regarding separating between crime and terror - well - that is typically done as per the motivations or inferred motivations of the attacker. Terrorism is violence to achieve political goals and may be classified either via the statements of the attacker (or his known affiliation) or via the lack of any criminal gain from the act (i.e. no plausible other reason for the attack) - however as editors we usually do not have to classify terror vs. crime - as investigators/other sources will typically state this is treated as a terror attack - editorial classification is usually only an issue in breaking recent news articles (which have a whole raft of issues) - and not a few months (and all the more so few years) from the event.Icewhiz (talk) 16:17, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is more a discussion on the scope of the main article. A discussion on that was recently had and I invite you to take a look at how complicated that ended up being. It may sound simple but its implementation is like squeezing toothpaste out of a crowbar. Sport and politics (talk) 17:00, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that objective criteria are possible, however I disagree strongly with those Icewhiz proposes, which are irrational as well as being WP:OR. The idea that every possibly terrorist event allegedly committed by a muslim (how would we know? name looks muslim? ancestry is middle eastern?) bypasses normal WP:V and WP:BLP to become presumed 'Islamic terrorist' until proved otherwise, would be laughable, if it were not precisely what is happening in this topic area daily. I say possibly terrorist event because at an early stage, often all we know is that police authorities say that they are launching a terrorist enquiry. Editors are happy to treat that as proof that the event WAS terrorist, rather than "may well have been". Fairly obviously, one of the first jobs of any enquiry - fraud enquiry, murder enquiry, Yeti enquiry is to establish whether the fraud/murder/Yeti is real. Pincrete (talk) 13:29, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
When Basque terror was "live", or the British/Irish troubles - such assumed triage based on the perp's identity was routine. Ascertaining the ethnicity or religious background (e.g. the Protestent/Catholic proxy during the troubles - or in this case - Muslim identity) is typically readily available and widely published. Usually, live perps (BLPs) are less of a problem (classification wise) as they are charged, brought to trial, etc. - so you usually have quite detailed sources (possibly not right after the event - but a few months later - definitely). Where you typically have a problem is when the perp dies - in which case one doesn't always have a detailed investigation into the motivations of the dead Muslim who shouted "Allahu Akbar" before carrying out the attack (you typically get his social media activities, what he said to neighbors, etcs.). In any event, in the strict literal sense a Muslim carrying out an act of terror meets "Islamic Terrorism" (just as a Basque by ethnicity would meet "Basque Terrorism").Icewhiz (talk) 13:41, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know about ETA, but I know that who had perpetrated a particular bombing etc. during the Irish 'troubles' was almost never dependent on what you call 'triage' since reliable lines of communications between paramilitaries and the press existed. What would be the point of perpetrating an act designed to 'send a political message' and failing to 'sign' that message? Pincrete (talk) 14:33, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. These collection templates play a useful role orienting readers to a topic. That role is distinct from list pages, and from main articles. The template and lists can evolve seperately, and list pages can't be embedded in template format. i.e., I can't see an argument against this template that wouldn't apply to many other templates, which readers find useful. If the start-date aspect is a weakness, then I think the template will just not get much use, which would be a cause for re-openning the discussion. In general, I think navigation templates can be used more, not less widely than they are across wikipedia. They'll all run into the criticism that 'this could be a page': Be they "Forms of Political Organization" or "Periods in art history" or this one. Tim bates (talk) 19:54, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete -- the template comes across as OR which moreover lacks necessary context that may be present if it were an article. Some included items do not appear to be described as "islamic terrorism" in the relevant pages. For example, Louvre machete attack does not contain the word "Islamic" in its body, except in a quote from the U.S. president. Not good. This is better off deleted. K.e.coffman (talk) 07:08, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • The above comment was about the footer. Separately, "Delete" the campaignbox for sure; the events included in the campaign box are not a single, coordinated campaign. K.e.coffman (talk) 08:12, 9 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Definitely delete the campaignbox, since many of the attacks are not directly linked (aside from Islamic State claiming responsibility without definite proof) and don't constitute an actual war. Leaning delete on the navbox, although if it is kept it should probably include all terrorist attacks and not just those committed by Muslims in Europe (like e.g. {{Aviation accidents and incidents in 2015}}). Jc86035 (talk) 13:43, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep No reason to delete if some attacks doesn't belong then the template should be removed from relevant article.--Shrike (talk) 14:56, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - template highly useful for navigating among all articles to which it applies. If anyone objects to usage of an article using the template, edit article to remove template from it. Don't throw baby out with bathwater! XavierItzm (talk) 06:27, 9 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 23:26, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - This re-listing is unnecessary. Delete consensus based in policy is clear. Remember this is not a vote. The keep arguments simply amount to WP:LIKE therefore keep, with statements which are. It's convenient, or It's helpful, all of which is hogwash. The delete arguments are policy based. There is no counter to the policy that this is WP:OR WP:SYNTH and WP:YESPOV. I personally think the re-lister was having a TL:DR moment, and that is why this was re-listed. The arguments for keep are nothing more that simply, votes and preferences. To all the users who are going to go mad at me for pointing out this, my talk page can be found here, replies anywhere else shall not be responded to. Sport and politics (talk) 06:59, 11 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment to the comment: Agree that the re-listing is unnecessary, since this is clearly a Keep, as the policy-based arguments against keeping are quite unfounded. For instance: WP:OR? Since when is a mere template, useful for navigating, OR?. Jeez, talk about grasping at straws! XavierItzm (talk) 07:02, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above reply is baiting. The comments on the comment are simply spouting the same opinions regarding keep through WP:LIKE. The reply has made an inversion of the arguments, and has portrayed Wikipedia policy backwards. WP:OR because it is OR as to what is and is not included, there is no objective standard, it is all inference and subjectivity. It is WP:SYNTH because stating these collection of distinct events as a campaign is portraying them as something which is only found by taking friendly cherries from selective sources. This is WP:YESPOV because the inclusion in the template does nothing but portray opinion of a campaign as fact. This is unsupported conjecture and inference. The baiting comments are not helpful. Delete and is based in clear policy. I wish editors would thoroughly read Wikipedia policies before trying to ridicule editors who are trying to ensure they are maintained. This is a very clear policy based delete, compared to a synthetic and opinion riddled opposing side, of inclusionism. Sport and politics (talk) 09:41, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. A template based on a main article that still doesn't know its own scope after over a year, 1,500 edits, and 340KB of discussion including archives cannot be of encyclopaedic value. As stated by others, "Islamic", "terrorism", "Europe" and "2014–present" are all problematic. Scolaire (talk) 10:41, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep since this is just another wp:point edit by the nominator, who did not succeed in deleting the article, so now seeks to get the related template deleted. ‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalencia ᐐT₳LKᐬ 17:13, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I did not nominate the main article for deletion, and gave arguments to keep the main article. I am unaware what is being referred to in the policy free vote from @El cid, el campeador:, I do wish users would fact check their personal attack, and wild claims. Sport and politics (talk) 17:35, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - As multiple people have said already, the template is useful for navigating between articles in the category, and also, your initial arguments are wrong because the placement of articles in the category are based on news reports from reliable sources that A: state that the attacks are considered terrorism by police, B: state that the attacks were motivated by radical Islamists, and C: still say that, so, yeah. Calicodragon (talk) 21:43, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, Delete campaignbox, also. We have the template. Calicodragon (talk) 21:59, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. As multiple people have said already, the category itself can be used for navigation, so this template is entirely superfluous. There are multiple instances of attacks and incidents being added to Islamic terrorism in Europe (2014–present) that don't satisfy the inclusion criteria for that article (unsourced, no official source describing an attack as Islamist terrorism, etc.) that still get added to this template. Inclusion is quite often clearly WP:OR, WP:SYNTH, or WP:POV. As stated by others, "Islamic", "terrorism", "Europe" and "2014–present" are all problematic. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 09:17, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Questions on the inclusion of individual articles can be discussed on the associated talk page(s) and should not warrant the deletion of the whole template to appease a few snowflakes. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 11:35, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep for both templates - Some arguments to delete are reasonable, others are not, and others still are not reasoned. Case in point, at least two people mention that Europe (among other terms; Islamic, terrorism, 2014-present, etc) have no clear definition and thus the templates constitute OR and SYNTH. So, uh, why do we have articles on all of these things? Because they have reasonably clear definitions and are notable. Actually the more legitimate argument, and thankfully the more prevalent one, is that putting all those terms together and calling it a "campaign" is OR and SYNTH. This is only partly true, leaning towards being mostly untrue. The dating of this "campaign" (2014-present) is impossible to verify. That is if you call it a campaign. That the box itself is called a campaignbox is actually mostly irrelevant. There are hundreds of campaignboxes, and many of them, such as Template:Campaignbox al-Qaeda attacks and Template:Campaignbox Religious violence in Nigeria have naught to do with wartime campaigns or campaigns at all. Rather, these campaignboxes are tools that provide navigation between various articles that meet the definition of title of the campaignbox, in this case that is; Islamic terrorism in Europe (2014-Present). So, if an article meets all of these defintions, it would be reasonable to include it in it's defined navigational campaignbox. For example, the 2017 Manchester Arena bombing happened in Manchester, in England, in the UK, in Europe; was committed by an Islamist extremist; was labelled a terrorist attack by police, politicians and the British public; and occured after 2014 and before present. Thus, it meets every pre-requisite to be included in the templates. So there is no reason not to include it. The second template, that does not call itself a campaignbox, has none of the issues of campaign presented above. Again, the template is being used for navigation and not to label the events in Europe a campaign. If it were, the campaignbox template and the non-campaignbox template would both link to Campaign of Islamic terrorism in Europe (2014-present) and not Islamic terrorism in Europe (2014-present) in their header. For the rest of it, per Lugnuts and XavierItzm, discuss inclusion of individual articles into the templates on those individual articles' talk pages. Mr rnddude (talk) 12:19, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • delete the campaignbox, crowds the page content. no opinion on the navbox. Frietjes (talk) 14:34, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:PD-art-70-3d edit

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Winged Blades of GodricOn leave 06:18, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

unused, needlessly wordy/confusing, replaceable by {{PD-old-70}} FASTILY 06:47, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that this is not exactly the same as {{PD-old-70}}, in that this one clarifies that an additional tag is needed for the photograph itself? CapitalSasha ~ talk 18:47, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. The second part of {{PD-art-70-3d}} is a reminder about specifying a license for the photograph (derivative work); note that photographer attribution should be done regardless of whether a template calls for it or not. -FASTILY 08:40, 25 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That's true, but it seems good for the template to clarify that not just attribution but also additional licensing information is required. The usual PD templates make it seem like they are the end of the story with regard to licensing. CapitalSasha ~ talk 16:16, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. But this *is* still both a non-standard tag and unused template, hence the reason for this nom. -FASTILY 22:34, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 23:06, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 23:27, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:SwimmingAt2014AsianParaGamesMen edit

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 20:01, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

unused template Zackmann08 (Talk to me/What I been doing) 23:20, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Medical colleges in India edit

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 20:01, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

With 348 medical colleges in India, a navbox is not a useful navigation tool for such a list. For this we have List of medical colleges in India and Category:Schools of medicine in India as well as other lists, categories and navigation templates for sub-groups of this huge list. This one is always going to be pointless, partial, and as such, misleading. Muhandes (talk) 12:05, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • delete, better to use categories and the list article for navigation. Frietjes (talk) 16:25, 11 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:It Stephen King edit

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 20:01, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Navigates too little content--all of which is well inter-linked. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 08:29, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete Agreed, unnecessary, articles mostly all link each other anyways. -- AlexTW 13:49, 11 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete unnecessary template Aloneinthewild (talk) 14:30, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2017_September_10&oldid=1138373193"