Wikipedia:Peer review/List of Sunderland A.F.C. players/archive1

List of Sunderland A.F.C. players

• A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for June 2008.

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I want a broad range of comments on how to improve it. I've based this article of List of York City F.C. players and List of Ipswich Town F.C. players which are both Featured lists. Thanks. Sunderland06 (talk) 20:45, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Rambo's Revenge comments: Overall content seems good. Looking at FL criteria it's main downfall is citing sources.

• Delete the first reference - it lacks relevance and it is to the Soccerbase homepage. Done - Removed.
• The only point of the second reference is to show that Whitehead and Collins are still at the club. Done - Removed.
• You should provide reference(s) which can be used to check a lot the information in the list, like a book or something. Will try
• Note 7 could be better worded to make it clearer. Done
• I don't think note 18 about Gates being a former football commentator on local radio is relevant. Done - Removed.
• Bold the title in the lead section. Comment - This would be inappropriate per WP:BOLDTITLE.
• In the lead it says "Also, all England players to have won a cap while at Sunderland are included.", however according to Sunderland A.F.C.#Notable_players, Bob Kelly and Kieran Richardson have also won caps whilst at the club. Note - I must have forgot about Kelly, but Richardson hasn't appeared for England while he's been at Sunderland, I'll go change the info at the before mentioned link. I couldn't find any of Kelly's appearances or goals, so I'll leave him out.

Quick comment from ChrisTheDude (talk · contribs)

"This includes those who have represented their country whilst playing for the club....Also, all England players to have won a cap while at Sunderland are included." - well if all players capped while at the club are included, then it's kinda stating the obvious to separately note that all players capped for England are included...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:18, 9 July 2008 (UTC) Done - Removed confusion. Sunderland06 (talk) 19:50, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

• Another point - above you appear to confirm that you agree that Bob Kelly played for England while with Sunderland, yet go on to state "I couldn't find any of Kelly's appearances or goals, so I'll leave him out." - you can't make the claim that the list includes all capped players if you choose to omit one....... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:20, 9 July 2008 (UTC) Done - Managed to find Kelly's stats after rummaging. Sunderland06 (talk) 19:50, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Comments from Struway2 (talk · contribs)

If I'd noticed this sooner I'd have reviewed it sooner. You've done the basic work, which looks fine. I haven't checked that you have all the Sunderland players with 100 apps or more, or proofread your figures, presumably you have (though very recently, and about six months after List of Birmingham City F.C. players was featured, I found one player I'd left out entirely, and another one who'd apparently played 200 league games out of 162 total appearances, so there will be mistakes).

• Lead. Needs more content, and more interesting content. All you have at the moment is a list of what the list does or doesn't contain, some of which (Appearances are for first-team competitive matches only etc.) would do better above the table or as a footnote to the appearances column. Talk about some of the players, any records they might hold, either for Sunderland or general (Alf Common?) Standards have risen since some earlier lists were featured (which is nice for those of us that got in before they rose :-) Done - Expanded.
• Opening sentence starting "This is a list of" is discouraged, whether it's bolded or not. And avoid the word "notable"; all footballers who played in the Football League are notable, by definition. 'Done - Removed that part.
• I don't know how keen FL reviewers currently are on including players for subjective reasons, like First professional captain.
• Colour coding. Per WP:COLOUR, you can't use just colour to convey information, you need to have some sort of symbol, or bolding/italics, or footnote labels, as well. Done - Used bolding.
• Is date joined the year the player actually signed for the club (as a 15-year-old, for instance), or what? Comment - The date joined column is when they played their first game according to the stat cat.
• Position. The relevant article is called Association football positions. Done - changed.
• I'd be very wary of regarding Soccerbase team records as reliable. As an example, for my own club, it gives Malcolm Page's 28 caps for Wales as the club record; there are now four players with more than 30.
• Date left column doesn't sort properly (probably because of the dashes).
• Your footnotes (club records, only player to captain three north-east clubs, etc) need sources. Done
• As do those players having been capped for countries other than England. scottishfa.co.uk, soccerscene.ie, nifg.co.uk, Danish FA, probably Norwegian FA all have individual player pages, FIFA has pages for players having played in FIFA competitions. Done
• And the England-capped players need linking to the englandfootballonline reference. Or alternatively, against each player in List of England international footballers (alphabetical), which is an enormous list, there is a reference to his individual englandstats page, which highlights the club(s) he was at when he won his England cap(s). Done - Referenced from englandstats.com.
• It'd be nice (but probably asking too much :-) if each player was referenced to their individual statcat page. Done - Took a while but, phew, done it ;)
• There are quite a few redlinked players. FL criteria these days do allow redlinks but currently there are too many, for my taste anyway. Done - Created all.

That'll do to be going on with... cheers, Struway2 (talk) 11:06, 17 July 2008 (UTC)