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Creating kecamatan stubsEdit

Indonesian Wikipedia has articles for all of the kecamatan (subdistricts) and even many of the desa (villages), but not English Wikipedia. I want to expand especially for Papua. Can we use a bot, or do we have to do everything one by one? Sagotreespirit (talk) 00:09, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

It's a bit finicky for stubs - since there won't be much information; plus you're going to probably create tons of duplicates with some three-liner stubs which exist for some reason. Maybe semi-automated, if at all, would be the best idea. Just be sure to not copy+paste idWiki as their standards seem to be lower, so to say. Juxlos (talk) 00:14, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Very strongly discouraged - almost certainly 80 to 90 percent of districts and villages are not inherently notable for naming and identification in English Wikipedia - although there is one unholy mess of districts for Indonesia. Tidying that up is one thing - creating new items is very strongly discouraged.

Indonesian wikipedia and english wikipedia have very different ways of looking at lower level subdivisions. There is literally no resources easily available online or in written sources in english that could substantiate any level of WP:V with WP:RS that could justify creation of stubs that would pass WP:N for general standards for english wikipedia.

Under no circumstances start, without waiting for at least some other editors to comment.

This has been through before (in this archive) with a different cohort of editors who realised that district lists and names are not what Wikipedia english is WP:ABOUT. JarrahTree 10:39, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Note that per WP:GEOLAND, if BPS says they exist (kecamatan or village), they're presumed notable. Just that bot-articles are frowned upon in English Wiki. Juxlos (talk) 11:51, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

That is perhaps somewhat far fetched to expect that english wikipedia really needs an article for every village and kec in Indonesia - and I would strongly oppose that - if you understand how many useless one line stubs about places that will never have any WP:RS would go against what WP:ABOUT regardless of Geoland and BPS JarrahTree 14:49, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Juxlos is right about their presumed notability. Personally, I'd prefer you make lists of kecamatans and desas in their parent administrative division instead of creating one-liner permastubs. If you really want to, you could make redirects of each kecamatan and desa. --HyperGaruda (talk) 10:06, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

Abandoned articlesEdit

Hi, In order to more efficiently focus (human) resources in the Indonesia Project, would it be an idea to signify the de facto abandonment of certain Indonesia articles by labeling them as abandoned by the Indonesia Project? I'm thinking in particular of the articles on Indonesian airports, TV stations and football clubs, where the sheer number of uncited, unreferenced and POV edits, often by IP editors, makes it impractical to maintain standards. I guess the easiest way would be either to create a category, or to remove the Project tag from these articles. Any suggestions for any additions to the list? Davidelit (Talk) 03:16, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

This is very much a glass half full versus glass half empty topic. There eare qually good arguments for both sides. It is like the personality types who actually designate their on wiki preferences - they are either deletionsists or inclusionists - for an older view or look at these two philosophies (not updated) - see Deletionism_and_inclusionism_in_Wikipedia

The argument for keeping uncited, and quite poor quality stubs - is that someone will come along some day and improve/add to the stub - very close to what anthropologists observed in Cargo_cults in New Guinea.

The argument for deleting - is well displayed in the slaughter of portals just recently, regardless of the arguments for or against.

The original intention of allowing inadequate stubs, was in the relatively naive hope that there would be editors who might follow after the original creation of the stubs. It has not happened in a broad scale at all.

One possible remedy is to suggest that the playing with tv stations, airports and football clubs could be averted if only by one or more admins being indonesian project focused - we have lost more (interested admins) than we had some 5 years ago - and simply work on blanket protection, but broader wikipedia wide admins and others see protection as something temporary.

Another remedy or response to the suggestion, is to wait for and hope that a number of regular editors might turn up and offer their suggestions.

The regular and redundant argument we dont have what the Indonesian language wikipedia has - is really suggesting that we develop towards having the same items - many having literally no actual notability or credence other than to alert the wider wikipedia community that something exists - without anything that comes up to a WP:V or WP:N standard to actually qualify for reasons of inclusion.

Although in the previous section of this noticeboard, there is the item about what https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(geographic_features)#Geographic_regions,_areas_and_places might have in its favour, the argument requires careful examination as to what it might mean for this project.

There is no doubt what david has brought up is something to consider, as to whether we have a community of editors prepared to discuss and establish some consensus as to what might be best for this project, is another thing. JarrahTree 04:24, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Indonesian cities and regenciesEdit

I have created Indonesian cities and regencies blank map based on File:Electoral Districts Indonesia DPR 2019.svg with update on new city/regency. Maybe it can be useful for this project. Hddty. (talk) 17:19, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Thank you! Davidelit (Talk) 01:31, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
What was the source for File:Electoral Districts Indonesia DPR 2019.svg? Anybody know? @Juxlos: maybe? Bennylin (talk) 15:23, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
I found a .geojson file for Kabupaten which I converted to a .svg file. It was like a year ago so I'll have to dig around a bit to find out where I got it from again. Juxlos (talk) 15:26, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

A rose by any other nameEdit

I was drawn to the article Talang Tuo inscription by the lengthy quotation showing up as misspelled (assuming English) words. I'd love to mark those quotations with {{lang}} but "Old Malay" is not a known language code. I'll be doing something else.

But in looking around I got confused by the name "Talang Tuo". The text and title was changed by one editor in April 2018. And by the same editor over at the Indonesian wiki also in April 2018.

Searching with Google finds more "Talang Tuwo" than "Talang Tuo". And a number of "Talang Tuo" hits are copies of the renamed Wikipedia article. Searching for "Talang Tuwo" seems to find more occurrences in Malay scholarly texts? Lastly, searching for "Talang Tuwo" on English Wikipedia finds more than double the hits of "Talang Tuo"

I am uncertain, but it seems like the 'Tuwo' -> 'Tuo' change was not needed, and just one editor's opinion. Can you find something trustworthy to rely on regarding this name? Or point me to a better place to ask this question? Shenme (talk) 04:46, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

@Shenme: I am just guessing now, but considering how the inscription was discovered during the time of the Dutch East Indies, I imagine it was spelled the Dutch way at first, i.e. Talang Toewo, and there are a few attesting hits. After Indonesian spelling reforms, the name should have become Talang Tuwo. However, tuo and tuwo are pronounced exactly the same and I think the "w" was only added originally to clarify the pronunciation in Dutch (toeo: toe-o or to-eo? "oe" is a digraph representing the "oo" sound in English by the way). Modern Indonesian would not need the extra "w" anymore. If I am not mistaken, Sumatran variants of Malay tend to turn certain standard Malay "a" sounds into "o" sounds, so the standard Malay/Indonesian way of writing would be Talang Tua. To me, Tuwo seems like something halfway between proper Dutch and proper modern Malay. --HyperGaruda (talk) 17:11, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

administrative regions of IndonesiaEdit

As an on-going discussion over the years, the development of this projects' standards regarding administrative divisions, and nomenclature -

the latest installment = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kecamatans_of_Indonesia always good to see how things like this arise again and again, at least there is life in the project yet. JarrahTree 00:35, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

standardising ethnic group terminologyEdit

Please note that a discussion about some means of standardising terminology in this project has been started at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ethnic_groups_in_Indonesia#Terminology

It is well introduced, and well considered of the issues, it should be checked carefully for any page lurkers here interested in standardising usages, a bug that seems to to exist in an ongoing manner in this project... JarrahTree 13:43, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Return to the project page "WikiProject Indonesia".