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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Tropical cyclone naming/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Giants2008 via FACBot (talk) 23:31, 8 January 2017 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Tropical cyclone naming edit

Tropical cyclone naming (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Jason Rees (talk) 21:43, 21 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because... after receiving feedback on it from other members of the project and an updated naming list. I decided that it was time that this was renominated for FLC.Jason Rees (talk) 21:43, 21 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support

  • Since the systems can last a week or longer and more than one can be occurring in the same basin at the same time, the names are thought to reduce the confusion about which storm is being described. - I'd change the structure of the sentence. Start with "The names are thought to reduce confusion in the event of concurrent storms in the same basin." Same meaning, but shorter.
  • "The practice of using names to identify tropical cyclones goes back many years, with systems named after places or things they hit before the formal start of naming. " --> "Before the formal start of naming, tropical cyclones were named after places, objects, or saints' feast days." - something like this. The current writing is on the awkward side.
  • The lead should be reorganized. Keep general TC naming info in the first paragraph, then the history bit in the second.
  • The "Tropical cyclone naming institutions" table should be centered, not off to the right (and with text below, not squished to the side)
  • The links to the retired names in each basin should be linked in each basin, not all at once.
  • "Tropical cyclone formation is rare within the Mediterranean Sea and to the east of 120W in the Southern Pacific, as a result there are no naming lists for these areas." - cite
  • Be consistent whether you say "knots" or "kn"
  • Make sure the Papua New Guinea names are left-aligned (like all of the rest of the names)

These are my biggest qualms. It's a good list though, and it won't take much for me to support it. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 22:55, 21 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Most of your comments have been dealt with - not sure how im gonna deal with the Med Sea one yet.Jason Rees (talk) 13:56, 23 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • All of your comments have now been dealt with and I decided to remove the part of the Med Sea, as i can not find a source for it and it technically comes under names assigned by FU Berlin.Jason Rees (talk) 22:56, 25 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Names are assigned in order from predetermined lists with one, three, or ten-minute sustained wind speeds of more than 65 km/h (40 mph) depending on which basin it originates. - to the outsider, they might not see the connection with the first half of this sentence and the second half. Perhaps do something like "Once storms produce sustained wind speeds of more than 65 km/h (40 mph), names are assigned in order from predetermined lists, depending on which basin it originates." I would include the bit about the 1/3/10 minute sustained elsewhere, but not in the lead, as it could be a bit too technical for non-experts.
  • "The practice of using names to identify tropical cyclones goes back many years, with systems named after places or things they hit before the formal start of naming." - I'd remove the first half of the sentence. It doesn't add much, and it sounds more concise with just "Before the formal start of naming, tropical cyclones were named after places they hit." Add the saint feast day bit here (I saw it in the lead, couldn't find it elsewhere)
  • "However, standards vary from basin to basin with some tropical depressions named in the Western Pacific, while tropical cyclones have to have a significant amount of gale-force winds occurring around the center before they are named within the Southern Hemisphere." - this should get more explanation (since the wording is similar to the lead). Split it into three sentences and explain sufficiently
    • I have split this into two sentences but am unsure if this is enough or if i need to go further into depth? Jason Rees (talk) 23:11, 28 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Papua New Guinea National weather Service" - capitalization of "Weather"
    • This has been dealt with in the next comments by removing the sentence.Jason Rees (talk) 20:13, 28 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "A replacement name is then submitted to the committee concerned and voted upon but these names can be rejected and replaced with another name for various reasons." - is this specifically about PNG? If not, clarify.
    • I have removed the tidbit about PNG names being automatically there, since the SWIO has now sorta started automatic retirement and feel that it would be difficult to clarify otherwise.Jason Rees (talk) 20:13, 28 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • General qualm about the article - there are 226 usages of "name/named/naming/names" in the article. Try going through and finding ways of rewriting without saying the word so many times.
    • Will give it a go shortly...Jason Rees (talk) 20:13, 28 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • 12 instances removed by changing Sources for tropical cyclone names to References.Jason Rees (talk) 20:27, 28 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could you explain List E in "Southern Pacific Ocean (160°E – 120°W)"?

♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:07, 28 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I support then. It is a great list of the current tropical cyclone names, superior even to what the World Meteorological Organization has. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 04:48, 4 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 08:36, 27 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • " Western Pacific Ocean (180° to 100°E)" only heading not to use an en-dash for the range.
  • Table in History section needs to be corrected for WP:DASH violations, and you need to be consistent, spaced or unspaced ranges? (see also "5°N–25°N and 115°E-135°E.
    • I have made the dashes spaced and I think I have fixed the WP:Dash violations.Jason Rees (talk) 14:58, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • What is ₱?
  • " mid October 2016" ->"mid-October"
  • "intensity on early July 2016" -> "in early July"
  • "A — W" etc, "A–W".
  • "on early October 2016" -> "in early..."
  • Category:Human first names given to physical phenomena is going to be deleted...

The Rambling Man (talk) 12:11, 6 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    • @The Rambling Man: Apologies for not catching your review before, but i have been rather busy and only spotted it when YE did his review. Hopefully all of the comments have now been dealt with to your satisfaction. :) Jason Rees (talk) 14:58, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments. Support with the conditions all of TRM comments are addressed to his satisfactions. YE Pacific Hurricane 06:12, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • "Formal naming schemes and naming lists have subsequently been introduced and developed for the North Atlantic, Eastern, Central, Western and Southern Pacific basins as well as the Australian region and Indian Ocean." shouldn't the South Atlantic be included? (ditto for the same sentence later in the article). You include it as a TC naming list institution. YE Pacific Hurricane 06:12, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Ive tweaked it to say that "Formal naming schemes and naming lists have subsequently been introduced and developed for the Eastern, Central, Western and Southern Pacific basins, as well as the Australian region, Atlantic Ocean and Indian Ocean." However, I am not 100% happy about tweaking it to include the South Atlantic since it is not a WMO recognised naming scheme afaik. Though I might write to the WMO and ask them about it.Jason Rees (talk) 14:58, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "However, standards vary from basin to basin, with some systems named in the Western Pacific, when they develop into tropical depressions or enter PAGASA's area of responsibility.[10] " source just mentions that all systems that are in PAGASA's AOR are named, so I suggest this is simplified down. However, I'm not sure what the best way to do this is. If I were writing it form scratch, I'd put "However, standards vary from basin to basin. For example, all tropical cyclones, including tropical depressions, are named when they form or enter PAGASA's area of responsibility." but I know that isn't exactly your writing style. YE Pacific Hurricane 06:12, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • The source I use to state tropical depressions are named says: “Since tropical and/or monsoon depressions can bring very heavy rainfall to the nation which often results in disastrous flooding, the weather service feels that assigning a name helps to enhance public attention given to a system,". Thus I feel that no change is needed here.Jason Rees (talk) 14:58, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oh, that makes sense now. YE Pacific Hurricane 03:58, 25 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • " when they have caused at least ₱1 billion in damage and/or have caused at least 300 deaths.[12]" Either a system needs to meet one of the two, or it need to meet both. So why the "and/or". YE Pacific Hurricane 06:12, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • The and/or shows the reader that it can be both imo.Jason Rees (talk) 14:58, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "34 knots (39 mph; 63 km/h).[1] " why is knots spelled out here and not in the rest of the article? YE Pacific Hurricane 06:12, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • First usage, though I have since moved it to the lead.Jason Rees (talk) 14:58, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • " Papua New Guinea National Weather Service (NWS, TCWC Port Moresby).[6] " why a comma here when in similar instances you use a slash? YE Pacific Hurricane 06:12, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • List of retired Australian cyclone names should be linked in the AUS section, like the rest of the retired pages are. YE Pacific Hurricane 06:15, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Maybe add a bit about how recent SATL started given how recent it is compared to the other naming schemes for the most part? YE Pacific Hurricane 06:12, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Not Sure what I can add to it personally - I would rather not go into too much history on this article.Jason Rees (talk) 14:58, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support – Any major issues that existed before I reviewed the list were addressed above, a minor issue I presented to JR was fixed this morning, and I tweaked the prose mainly for punctuation errors. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 20:11, 29 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Source review/spot-checks – All references are well-formatted and I found all but one to be reliable (more on that below). The link checker reveals no issues with any of the references. After looking at the sources and doing spot-checks on refs 3, 9, and 10, I have a few concerns.

  • The biggest issue is that most of the content from ref 9 is repeated almost verbatism in the article. If that was the intention, the article needs to indicate that it is incorporating text from NOAA; there's a template here that will do this for you when added. If not, it is purely plagiarism and needs to be reworded ASAP. Either way, this urgently needs fixing before I can consider promoting the list.
  • What makes reference 3 (Typhoon2000) a reliable source? I don't even think you need this one, as the GMA News article (ref 10) appears to cover the coordinates that are being cited.
  • Speaking of the coordinates, I'm not seeing the 20-degree AOR coordinate from ref 3. It mentions 21° and 25° at various points, but not 20°. The GMA News article also states 25°, if my memory is correct. Giants2008 (Talk) 21:15, 4 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've gone ahead and reworked that ref 9 material to avoid plagiarism. I can't immediately find any other instances of close or identical phrasing, so we might be good to go on that front. – Juliancolton | Talk 03:35, 5 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hmm... The author behind the website Typhoon2000 is very well respected and has been recognised as Mr Typhoon by various sources as he has provided a calm voice in the face of the storm, some very reliable forecasts and a lot of preperation work. However, I decided to remove the source and replace it with the GMA source just to make things easier. As for the co-ordinates, im pretty certain that it is in practise 20N but im not gonna quible with the sources and have moved it to 21N in order to be as broad as we can.Jason Rees (talk) 20:53, 6 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support now that the above issues have been addressed. – Juliancolton | Talk 21:34, 6 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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