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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Taylor Swift videography/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:34, 1 October 2016 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Taylor Swift videography edit

Taylor Swift videography (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): FrB.TG (talk) 20:32, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this in an attempt for my 30th featured list. This is the videography of Ms Swift, partially based on other articles of its kind - Lady Gaga videography and Katy Perry videography, also written by me. However, unlike them I have not dedicated a separate section to the commercials she has done, as I don't find them so notable that they be discussed in such detail like they are in the two videographies. I have also tried to be as less-detailed (in "Description" in the Music videos section) as possible. I have selected the images of the models and director of her most popular videos. Thanks for looking at this to anyone who takes the time. FrB.TG (talk) 20:32, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from —IB [ Poke ] 10:46, 30 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment
  • I think an internal redirect link to the Kanye West interruption would be beneficial sometime since the 2009 MTV VMA article is quite "list" like and a reader will defo miss the para. This can be added in the lead at the end of the first para.
  • fixed a minor quotes issue in "The Last Time".
  • In 2014, Swift released 1989 --> In 2014, Swift released her fifth album 1989 (since you mention the chronology of the other albums, it makes sense to do it for this one also)
  • I'm still on the fence for the commercials, cause some of them do seem to be noteworthy.
  • For "Change" summary beginning with "It sees Swift performing with a band in a ballroom" seems awkward. We know the column is for videos so why not directly begin it as "Swift performs with a band in a ballroom..."
  • The picture of Joseph Kahn is stretching and extending into the reference section, making it look compacted even in wide screen monitors like mine. I would say its not necessary since all the images are about Swift's male co-actors and forms a unanimity, and Kahn just looks out of place.

I will again give another look FrB., but solid work as always. —IB [ Poke ] 10:52, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks IndianBio - I have acted upon your every suggestion. FrB.TG (talk) 13:50, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Whoops!
  • All of the proceeds from the video to wild animal conservation efforts through the African Parks Foundation of America --> This definitely does not sound right.
  • The video is different from Swift's previous work, featuring Swift --> replace the next Swift with "the singer" to avoid repetition of her surname
  • A single Swift bounces on trampolines --> single Swift? Sounds like the name of a car :P
  • The video finds Swift in the streets of Paris --> "finds Swift in the streets" make it sound like she is living off the streets, probably you meant "finds Swift roaming around the streets of Paris" ala Adele's SLY.
  • The video does not mainly focus on B.o.B and Swift, as it cuts to scenes of people, living their day-to-day lives. --> "Along with B.o.B and Swift, the video also portray people living their day-to-day lives."

More to come. —IB [ Poke ] 13:30, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Looking forward. FrB.TG (talk) 18:36, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@IndianBio: could you strike out your comments you consider resolved? FrB.TG (talk) 07:30, 30 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Will do shortly :) —IB [ Poke ] 08:38, 30 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support I do not see any other outstanding issue with the list. —IB [ Poke ] 10:46, 30 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Montanabw
  • The Television chart is confusing, as it lists her two dramatic roles but then also includes her SNL guest host appearances, but lists none of her other TV appearances such as Dancing with the Stars and such. I am confused as to what your criteria were for this chart, can you clarify?
  • I may be applying FAC criteria here, but the lead should normally only be unsourced where the content is repeated in the body text of the article, here the first two paragraphs are pretty much unsourced and the third is only sourced at the end. As the charts don't source the music albums from which the songs came and some other material in the lead, I'd like to see either footnotes in the lead or some of the material there added to the article, particularly where we have songs tied to audio albums. Doesn't matter which way you go, so long as we have sources.

More to come, pending what is done here and on other reviewers suggestions. Montanabw(talk) 02:22, 30 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Montanabw: Included liner notes for the albums. As for the second one, I have not included television shows where she has performed her songs. They go in List of Taylor Swift live performances (I will start that page sometime later). FrB.TG (talk) 07:30, 30 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That makes sense, but then why is SNL included? I guess my sense is that SNL isn't an acting role (though maybe she was in some sketches? Or was she only a musical guest? or both? Unclear) so if her TV performances aren't here, I need clarification on the SNL one. Montanabw(talk) 20:14, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Because she was also the host of the episode and she didn't really perform a song; it was a monologue. FrB.TG (talk) 11:05, 3 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
OK, that makes sense. You might want to note "guest host" on the chart then, so as to not be confused with "musical guest" which appears to be a category you are excluding here. I would recommend doing so. Montanabw(talk) 19:42, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, done.
  • Support: My concerns have been addressed. Looks good. Montanabw(talk) 06:24, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Cheetah (talk)
    • During her acceptance speech, she was interrupted by rapper Kanye West, which sparked controversy and received much media attention. - Probably one of the most controversial statements of this page is unsourced.
      • Per above.
        • Of course per above, source is needed.
    • You mention commercials done by Taylor, but they are not on the list. Why not?
      • I would have happily included a list if additional information such as who directed them were available but just listing those commercials is basically repetition. Also, see my explanation in my introduction.
        • First, without commercials this list can be incomplete. Second, the lead is a summary of the page; thus, if the page doesn't list the commercials, the lead shouldn't mention it.
          • Mentioned it in prose form in a section created for them. - FrB.TG (talk) 20:35, 24 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • For "Fearless" it says the director is Todd Cassetty and the description states that Swift uses footage from the Fearless Tour. Did Todd Cassetty direct the tour? or Swift directed the video along with Todd?
      • Now for someone to direct a video, it does not have to be original, does it?
        • Maybe you should say that Cassetty uses footage from the Tour while directing this video?
    • "In the video" should be removed
    • vieo → video
    • The video albums table has a title, others don't. Why not?
    • Two youtube links formatted differently, should be in the same format.
    • From her eponymous debut album (2006),[1] - What is the first footnote? So, you basically provide the link to the album with a footnote that has that same link? It doesn't make any sense.
    • Having wikilinks as reference is unreliable. You should know that since you do source reviews. The first six footnotes currently need to be deleted/replaced.
      • They were all liner notes which are not available offline, but since they were only used to confirm the tracks of the albums, I replaced them with the iTunes sources. But since Beautiful Eyes is not available on iTunes I left it as is.
        • You already have that link in the lead, why are you putting it in a footnote?
    • Every mention of an award won in the lead should be sourced
      • They are all sourced in the main body of the article and should not be repeated in the lead, per WP:LEAD.
        • Yes, per WP:LEAD, it should be sourced.
          • No, LEAD does not say anything such. It asks to source a controversial statement in the lead. I have sourced the controversy bit, but awards are not controversial so they are better there. – FrB.TG (talk) 20:35, 24 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Several of the descriptions are unsourced
      • No, they are not. They are sourced with the links to videos in which the plot of the videos can be seen.
        • The plot may be seen, but how about the location? or What tour it's from?
          • If I am to source every tiny detail, I will probably wind up having three four sources for just the plot of a video. They are apparent in the videos themselves. - FrB.TG (talk) 20:35, 24 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
            • That's why you don't need to go into detail just mention the plot of videos. Don't mention anything that has to be sourced.
    • Why are you not including tonight shows with Fallon, Leno, or Kimmel? Also how about Punk'd? Your source lists them. If you have another criteria, then you need to change your source to correspond to your criteria
Okay, since there was no response from the user, I have gone ahead and added those television shows; I've no idea as to why I didn't include them on Gaga and Perry's videographies. If there is a consensus against them, they can always be removed. I believe I have acted on on your other suggestions too. - FrB.TG (talk) 07:52, 26 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

--Cheetah (talk) 03:08, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments. – FrB.TG (talk) 17:59, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose As soon as Beautiful eyes is sourced, I'll support.--Cheetah (talk) 02:48, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Added -thanks for your comments - really! – FrB.TG (talk) 05:23, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
In the table, beautiful eyes is not sourced. Where's the youtube video at least?--Cheetah (talk) 06:32, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Crzycheetah: Unfortunately the video is not available online, but I have added a source which mentions the fact the it had a video. - FrB.TG (talk) 11:50, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from Aoba47
  • According to WP:LEAD, “The presence of citations in the introduction is neither required in every article nor prohibited in any article” and “Complex, current, or controversial subjects may require many citations; others, few or none”, but I have a slightly different question about the use of citations in the lead. Is there a reason why certain things are cited (such as the release of Swift’s first album), and not other things? I would think that either everything had to be cited, or everything would not be cited (and by extension be covered in the body of the article). Everything seems to be cited for similar articles like Rihanna videography and Madonna videography, but a similar citation style for Lady Gaga videography. I am not entirely sure which way is the more “correct” way (as it is up to your stylistic preference), but I just want to raise this question since the citation style in the lead was called into question by the above comments.
I have sourced those sentences which are not covered in the main body or are either controversial enough for the sources to be repeated. - FrB.TG (talk) 20:35, 24 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Makes sense to me. I was just curious as this issue was raised by an above commenter.
  • Is there a reason that a majority of the images focus on Swift’s love interests in the music videos (except for Kendrick Lamar)? This is more a question than a suggestion for a change, as this is up to your own stylistic preference, but I am curious why an image of Kellie Pickler or the Civil Wars or B.o.B. couldn’t be used instead of some of the images of the love interests for the sake of variety.
  • Wouldn’t Speak Now World Tour – Live and The 1989 World Tour Live count as video albums and be included in the “Video albums” charts?
  • Just a suggestion, but if you wanted to expand the “Commercials” section, you could use a table similar to that used in the “Commercials” section of Madonna filmography.
I would expand it if I find additional information about them. - FrB.TG (talk) 20:35, 24 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No worries. This was just an idea if you had the additional information, but since it is not available, the section is fine as it currently stands.

@FrB.TG: Aside from these points, everything else about the list looks great! If possible, could you review my FLC? Aoba47 (talk) 19:01, 24 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking a look at this. Had your request come before today, I would have gladly reviewed your list, but I don't think I can do that now; so sorry. - FrB.TG (talk) 20:35, 24 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@FrB.TG: No worries, I am just glad that I could help in any way. I support this to be promoted as a FL.

Passing source review, and closing as promoted. --PresN 16:02, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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