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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of international goals scored by Tim Cahill/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 03:29:56 24 September 2019 (UTC) [1].

List of international goals scored by Tim Cahill edit

List of international goals scored by Tim Cahill (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): KingSkyLord (talk) 14:01, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because it follows all Featured List criteria (very similar to other FLs about footballers’ international goals) and it would be nice to see an Aussie who plays soccer on Today’s Featured List for a change. KingSkyLord (talk) 14:01, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Given that Cahill has retired, I think you need to change a lot of the tenses e.g. "Cahill has scored against Japan" => "Cahill scored against Japan", "Thirteen of Cahill's fifty international goals have been scored" => "Thirteen of Cahill's fifty international goals were scored" and so on..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:18, 25 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Further comments
    • Photo caption - it's the Confederations (plural) Cup
    • "first international hat-trick, where he scored three goals against Fiji" - I would say "when" rather than where
    • "scored his 29th international goal against Costa Rica on 19 November 2013, equaling Damian Mori's national record of 29 goals" - if he equalled the record by scoring his 29th goal then obviously the record was 29, you don't need to state it again
    • "On 17 November 2015, he would score" - "he scored"
    • "his second (and last) ever international hat-trick" => "his second and last international hat-trick"
    • "where he scored the first three goals of the match" - "when he scored the first three goals of the match"
    • "Cahill scored more goals against Japan than he has against any other side" => "Cahill scored more goals against Japan than against any other side"
    • "subsequently nominated for the FIFA Puskás Award for 2014" - might be worth a very brief explanation of what this award is for
    • "both of whom are the two cities" => "which are the two cities"
    • "that Cahill has scored the most international goals in" => "in which Cahill has scored the most international goals"
    • "He has also scored against nations" => "He scored against nations"
    • "The second of these was Cahill's 50th (and last) ever international goal" => "The second of these was Cahill's 50th and last international goal"
    • "This made him the 59th man to reach 50 international goals." - source?
    • "Cahill also scored at three AFC Asian Cups"
    • "He was also named Oceania Footballer of the Year for 2004" => "He was named Oceania Footballer of the Year for 2004"
    • "Updated to game played 10 October 2017" - you may as well show it as updated to the date of his last international game (as in fact the other section already is)
  • Think that's it from me - can't see any issues with the table -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:36, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I made a couple of minor tweaks and now am happy to support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:40, 30 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Carlobunnie edit

Made some edits of my own to the lead to organize things a bit better but I still have some questions:

  • 1st paragraph: would be good to mention how he retired (when it was announced, what his last game was, possibly mention length of his career)
  • 3rd paragraph: I'm guessing it is somehow meant to center around the idea of where he scored the most int'l goals of his career? If I am wrong then my apologies, but the way the information is organized makes it difficult to determine what exactly the reader is meant to understand the point to be.
  • You open with the most goals he ever scored against a side was against Japan but follow up with "He also scored against Serbia during the 2010 FIFA World Cup and against both Chile and the Netherlands at the 2014 edition." - what is the relevance of this sentence in connection to the opening sentence? Are these teams his second most scored against sides or something? If so, how many goals did he score against them to warrant being mentioned here?
  • The Puskas award seems out of place here. Shouldn't the information in the lead (after the opening p'graph) either be organized chronologically so that info from like years ends up together, organized by a theme or central idea, or a separate p'graph be created for the awards/accolades he received as relates to this list? (or even noted somewhere in the opening p'graph if this is not how these sports related lists are written)
  • It continues with "More than half of Cahill's international goals were scored outside of Australia" but then you say right after "He scored six times in Adelaide...and...in Sydney, the two cities where Cahill scored the most international goals." - To me, placing both of those sentences one after the other is a bit confusing (maybe even a little contradictory?) because both of the cities where he scored the MOST int'l goals are INSIDE Australia after you just said he scored MOST ("more than half of" to be precise) of his int'l goals OUTSIDE of Australia. I think the paragraph probably should have started with "More than half of Cahill's international goals were scored outside of Australia" (if that is the point of the p'graph) and then you tie in the Japan goals and other relevant info. Or the two sentences could be merged and reworded to instead say, "Although more than half of Cahill's international goals were scored outside of Australia, the two cities he scored the most in were Adelaide (all at the 2004 OFC Nations Cup) and Sydney with six goals at each." or something along those lines. Again, this is all dependant on what the point of the p'graph is.
  • 4th paragraph: I assume this p'graph expounds upon his '50 international goals'? The first 3 sentences all connect to that theme so they're good.
  • This sentence seems out of place, "During his career, Cahill scored at three AFC Asian Cups (2007, 2011, 2015) and one OFC Nations Cup (2004). His late equalizer against Oman at the 2007 AFC Asian Cup was Australia's first Asian Cup goal. Doesn't clearly correlate to the '50 int'l goals' at all. You need to mention how many of them he scored at both cups, ie. 'Cahill scored sixteen international goals at three AFC cups and one OFC cup".
  • "Thirteen of Cahill's fifty international goals were scored in friendlies. He scored against nations from each of the six FIFA Confederations." - this sentence perfectly mentions how his 13 friendly goals relate to the 50 int's goals and that's what you need to do as I mentioned above.
  • The Oceania accolade mention seems out of place here. (refer to my note about the Puskas award)

The leads of the lists for Drogba, Henry and van Persie are good examples to look at for how they address the things I've mentioned for your article. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 20:12, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support (noticed the improvements you made and the lead reads much better now -- Carlobunnie (talk) 16:28, 10 August 2019 (UTC))[reply]

Comments from Teratix edit

Done 4 August
  • Can a more independent source than Football Federation Australia be found to source Cahill's signature celebration?
  • Refs 19 and 54 are both from Fox Sports but the website is named differently in each. – Teratix ₵ 23:57, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've decided to do a full review after all, since I keep commenting on this list.

Lead

Done
  • The Australian team is not nicknamed "the Socceroos", they are nicknamed the "Socceroos" (probably don't even need quote marks)
  • Thirteen of Cahill's fifty international goals were scored in friendlies "50" is written as a numeral everywhere else in the lead except here.
  • During his international career, Cahill scored more goals against AFC rivals, Japan, than against any other country, with five goals, two of which he scored at the 2006 FIFA World Cup, which were also the first two goals scored by Australia at any FIFA World Cup. Split into During his international career, Cahill scored five goals against AFC rivals Japan, more than he scored against any other country. Two of his goals against the country were at the 2006 FIFA World Cup, which were also the first goals scored by Australia at any World Cup. (Teratix ₵ 02:18, 27 August 2019 (UTC))[reply]
  • he scored his first international hat-trick, with three goals against Fiji. Since "hat-trick" means "three goals", this is tautologous.
  • On 8 July 2007, he scored his 12th international goal, and Australia's first ever AFC Asian Cup goal, against Oman at the 2007 AFC Asian Cup, drawing the game 1–1. The sentence is a bit long and the repetition of "AFC Asian Cup" in close succession can be reworded. Mentioning the year twice is also unnecessary. He scored against Oman at the 2007 AFC Asian Cup on 8 July, drawing the game 1–1. It was his 12th international goal and Australia's first in an Asian Cup.
  • In the lead, name and link the FIFA World Cup and the AFC Asian Cup in full on first reference, then just call them the World Cup and Asian Cup.
  • and announced his retirement following the end of the tournament Not sure this detail is important enough for the third sentence of the lead.
  • His 29th international goal was against Costa Rica on 19 November 2013, equaling fellow Aussie Damian Mori's record. On 5 March 2014, Cahill scored two goals against Ecuador during a friendly in London, England, surpassing Mori's record and making him the outright top-scorer for Australia. Avoid the informal "Aussie" and condense this into His 29th international goal against Costa Rica on 19 November 2013 equalled fellow Australian Damian Mori's record, which he surpassed on 5 March 2014 with two goals in a friendly against Ecuador.

Table

Done
  • Scores and results list Australia's goal tally first. The difference between a "score" and a "result" confused me on a first look. I would clarify that the score column indicates the tally after each of Cahill's goals (in a note similar to Drogba's or Henry's lists).
  • Updated to game played 20 November 2018. Cahill is retired from international football and thus won't be scoring again, so there's no need for this note (again, similar to Drogba, van Persie and Henry).
  • Linking the countries of the venues is excessive. I would also avoid linking prominent cities such as London, Sydney and Osaka, although similar FLs do link these.
  • New: Telstra Dome, Etihad Stadium and Docklands Stadium all refer to the same ground. To avoid confusion I suggest just using Docklands, as the non-sponsored name.

Statistics

Done

Final comments

I've found I don't have the time to conduct a review with the depth I would like. Adding small bursts of comments like this instead of taking the time to do a complete review is not fair on the nominator, and @KingSkyLord: I apologise for this.

These few points are the absolute last I will post here, and I support assuming they're fixed. – Teratix ₵ 12:34, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done
  • No source name in ref 41
  • Refs 19 and 54 are from the same source (Fox Sports Australia) yet one is italicised and the other isn't.
  • Same with 9/16 and 18 (Goal.com)
  • The external link claims Cahill has only scored 18 goals in World Cup qualifiers, not 20.
Resolved comments from Giants2008 (Talk) 22:03, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comments –
  • Minor point, but the semi-colon in the last sentence of the lead should probably be a regular old comma instead.
  • Since the Daily Mail has been deprecated for Wikipedia use in general, we should probably have something more reliable in an FL than its usage in ref 53. Giants2008 (Talk) 21:23, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – My couple of little nit-picks have been adequately addressed. Giants2008 (Talk) 22:03, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Source review – Since nobody else has done a source check for this article yet, I'll volunteer. Here's what I found:

  • A bunch of references are missing access dates. By my count, refs 1, 2, 10, 13, 14, 15, 18, 21, 26, 51, 54, and 55 all need them.
  • Refs 1, 10, 15, and 53 should have en dashes in their titles instead of hyphens per the Manual of Style.
  • Other than those points, the formatting looks okay and the references are all reliable. The link-checker tool and spot-checks of refs 32, 34, and 41 showed no issues. Giants2008 (Talk) 20:29, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Promoting. --PresN 03:29, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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