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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of international goals scored by Radamel Falcao/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 13 December 2018 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of international goals scored by Radamel Falcao edit

List of international goals scored by Radamel Falcao (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): The Rambling Man (talk) 14:36, 12 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Next up, Falcao. This one doesn't "Rock Me Amadeus" (that was Falco anyway) but he does score a few goals. The most, in fact, in Colombia's history. It's already been forked off a large main article, I just tidied it up in the usual style. I humbly submit it to the scrutiny of the reviewing community and pledge to do my best to address any and all comments in a timely fashion. Cheers y'all. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:36, 12 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from TompaDompa
  1. an injury sustained while playing for AS Monaco FC, his club team, in January 2014, ruled him out of the finals should be rephrased as "an injury sustained while playing for his club team AS Monaco FC in January 2014 ruled him out of the finals" to avoid breaking the sentence up with too many commas.
    Done. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:13, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  2. His first FIFA World Cup finals appearance came in the 2018 FIFA World Cup finals, four years later, with his 74th cap, against Japan in a group stage match in June 2018. should also be rephrased to avoid having a high number of commas close together.
    Done. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:13, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  3. I'd add a mention about the number of goals scored from penalty kicks in the WP:LEAD.
    No, I have no definitive source that's the number of penalties he scored, i.e. no one single source to back it up. Where I've found reliable verifiable evidence that a goal was scored by penalty, I've noted it. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:13, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

TompaDompa (talk) 12:24, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers TompaDompa, done or responded to. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:13, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose You may as well take out the 3b part from the criteria if you're not going to follow that. Currently, this whole list doesn't even cover my screen fully. The Lukaku list is borderline now, but he's young and a beast, that list is going to expand more. Falcao, on the other hand, is close to retiring from the international football. Anyway, this is going to be the shortest "List of international goals scored by..." in the WP:FL. By this tendency, we are going to have lists with 10 goals or even less next time. I will not even be surprised to see a page where it states "this player may score a goal one day because he shot on goal 10 times". P.S. We even have a candidate with 1 item for three weeks now and none of the FLC directors/delegates quick-failed it yet. Is that really what Wikipedia is about? Quantity over quality? I understand in general, but in featured content, quality always has to be above quantity. --Cheetah (talk) 18:02, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for your input, I don’t see anything actionable there, but cheers! The Rambling Man (talk) 19:20, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh, you must have missed it. Don't worry, I just did it myself. Cheers!--Cheetah (talk) 19:58, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    I think that's what they call "deliberately disrupting Wikipedia to prove a point". I think 31 items is sufficient to standalone. And by the way, he scored a few days ago. Your rant is noted, but ultimately is ineffectual and will not be considered further. Please don't get blocked for being pointy. Cheers! The Rambling Man (talk) 20:19, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, you made me do it. You said you didn't see it, so I showed it to you. You don't have any rights now to say what will be considered, you're just a nominator here. I know I am probably the only one worrying about the quality of featured lists here, but I won't be silent about it.--Cheetah (talk) 20:32, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    I didn't "make you do" anything. Your comments have been read and noted. There's nothing more to say. I'm happy to leave it to the community to decide, rather than just you making pointed edits. No-one asked you to be silent, just not to make pointed edits which are deliberately disruptive. I know I am probably the only one worrying about the quality of featured lists here um, nope! Anyway, thanks for raising your concerns. I'm sure other reviewers will chip in too. Cheers! The Rambling Man (talk) 20:35, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    I have to say I share Crzycheetah's WP:FLCR 3(b) concerns, even if I strongly disapprove of their actions. TompaDompa (talk) 21:05, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, as you did on the other FLC, where a consensus has formed in favour of the standalone list. Cheers. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:07, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    TompaDompa You may or may not be aware that the Lukaku list your raised concerns against is now a FL, so clearly the community consensus is that that list, and others of a similar nature, like this one, are acceptable standalone lists. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:19, 19 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 20:09, 19 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
;Comments from Gonzo_fan2007
  • "...his club team AS Monaco FC in January 2014, ruled him out of the finals..." - I don't think you need a comma here.
  • "...with his 74th cap..." - link Cap (sport).
  • "He has scored twelve goals in qualifying for the FIFA World Cup, two in the Copa América, one in FIFA World Cup finals and one in the Kirin Cup, and has scored more goals against Bolivia (four) than any other opponent." - It's not absolutely necessary, but this may be better written as two sentences.
  • Both images look fine, properly tagged and freely licensed.
  • Nice work @The Rambling Man:, no serious issues from me. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 22:08, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    Gonzo_fan2007 thanks, I've tried to address all your concerns, please let me know if there's anything else you consider important? Cheers, The Rambling Man (talk) 18:11, 19 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from ChrisTheDude
  • "He surpassed the previous record of 25 goals (in 68 appearances), held by Arnoldo Iguarán" - the wording seems ambiguous as to whether Falcao took 68 appearances to score 25 goals, Iguaran took 68 appearances to score 25 goals, or Iguaran had 68 appearances in total
  • "an injury sustained while playing for his club team AS Monaco FC in January 2014, ruled him out of the finals" - no reason for that comma after 2014 as far as I can see
  • In the title of the ref which is currently number 21, the dash isn't rendered properly
Think that's it from me -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:26, 19 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
ChrisTheDude thanks, I've addressed those issues I think, hopefully to your satisfaction. Let me know? Cheers. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:13, 19 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The Rambling Man - the problem dash is still there. The ref currently shows as " "Colombia 5‐0 Bolivia". Sky Sports. Retrieved 28 August 2018." -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:27, 20 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
ChrisTheDude sorry Chris, I missed that, fixed something else instead. But should be fixed now. Cheers. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:57, 20 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]


Support Comments from JennyOz

Hi TRM, I think this is my first association football review so pls excuse beginner's questions.

Lede

  • His first goal came in the following game - 'the' is ambiguous ie could be Colombia's next game or his next. Change to Colombia's if he didn't have break?
    Adjusted. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:13, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • more goals in friendlies than in any other format, with fourteen - fifteen
    Fixed. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:13, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • the remainder being scored overseas - many are in Sth America. I know overseas has a broad meaning but - swap to 'abroad' or in other nations/countries or outside Colombia?
    Fixed. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:13, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Falcao has yet to score an international hat-trick - 'yet' seems a bit presumptive?
    Fixed. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:13, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Key / col headers

  • I did not immediately understand what 'Score' was. Finally found explanation via Rooney's list. My humble suggestion would be to expand key table to include something like:
Cap | the number of appearances to date for national team (and remove cap wlink in table header)
Score | the score after the Falcao goal
double dagger as is
I've made an adjustment in line with Rooney's list, not exactly as you suggest, but close? The Rambling Man (talk) 12:13, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, that's fine thanks. JennyOz (talk) 14:15, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Main table

  • header - International goals by date, venue, cap, opponent, score, result and competition - this was order of cols in eg Rooney. Move 'Cap' into new second column order
    Do I have to? The Rambling Man (talk) 12:13, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    Perhaps you thought I was suggesting changing actual column order? Nope, just the text line above the table. It just looks weird that all other words are in same order as the columns except "cap". (But no, you don't have to.) JennyOz (talk) 14:15, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    Indeed I was misinterpreting that comment! I've adjusted it (I think). That's the table "caption", I think that's what confused me when you mentioned headers... sorry! The Rambling Man (talk) 17:08, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • last double dagger has a capital A on alt ie "Alt=Penalty" - tiny inconsistency but is okay, doesn't affect screenreaders?
    Fixed. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:13, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • goal 30 - refine wlink to section? #Poland vs Colombia
    Adjusted. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:13, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Refs

All are online and working. AGF Spanish lang though scores are obvious. These ref numbers are per 30 Sept version.

  • ref 2 Hmm, the 'website' parameter italicises, even though Goal is not a printed work? Add publisher=Perform Group?
  • 7 - title should be Matches of R. Falcao, publisher=Perform Group
  • 9, 12 and 13 - 11v11 - should include parameter for Association of Football Statisticians?
  • 14 - 27 May 2011 - March
  • 18 - byline Rex Gowar
  • 22 - per caption on Falcao photo the Col v Peru match date was 11 June
  • 24 - byline Robert-Jan Bartunek, and Philip Blenkinsop
  • 26 - byline Luis Jaime Acosta and Rex Gowar - but this ref doesn't give score progression ie that his were 2nd and 3rd of the 6 goals (this does ie after Bacca scored first)
  • 27 - pubn date 30 Mar - 31?
  • 28 - I can't see where espn gives location, either stadium or city (this does)
  • 30 - byline Andrew Downie
    All addressed. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:13, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Stadiums venues

  • Estadio Atanasio Girardot - needs pipe to avoid redirect?
    Piped. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:13, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Matsumoto Stadium - ditto
    Piped. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:13, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Goals 11 and 31 - This venue name change thing comes up now and then. The way the venue is used here is correct (named Sun Life Stadium (2010-2016) and Hard Rock since Aug 2016) and will match refs, but when sorted by venue, ie one wants to ascertain how many appearances or goals a player has had at a particular location, the different names don't compute reality. I presume this has been discussed over the years. Is there a guideline or discussion I should read?
    This is interesting. I could force the sorting so they stick together, and add a footnote to highlight the name change, what do you think? The Rambling Man (talk) 12:13, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not sure. It came up in some rugby and/or cricket lists but it was possible to avoid sponsor names with those. Probably not too important, anyone delving that deep will likely visit stadium articles and realise. I thought it must have been discussed before. I'm happy if you decide to leave as is. JennyOz (talk) 14:15, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    Footnote added. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:15, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sun Life needs pipe?
    Piped. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:13, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Opponents - all good

Statistics

  • Goals by year table - Source for number of appearances per year - copy ref 1 to Appearances column? (Rooney's has RSSSF) Actually, ditto for Caps column in main table.
    Source added. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:13, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Goals by competition table - Friendlies different wlink to in lede and main table?
    Link aligned with previous usage. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:13, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That's it for now. Again, sorry for newbie questions and comments... understanding will help me if I do any further assoc football lists. Regards, JennyOz (talk) 11:37, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

JennyOz no need to apologise, thanks for your detailed review, I've addressed almost all of the issues and where I haven't, I've left comments for further discussion. Cheers! The Rambling Man (talk) 12:13, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for tweaks. I've added 3 replies above. JennyOz (talk) 14:15, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
JennyOz I think I've covered off those last points, cheers! The Rambling Man (talk) 17:15, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Everything now addressed. Thanks! Happy to sign my support. Regards, JennyOz (talk) 02:50, 5 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment from Kosack

The only point I would raise is the use of FC with Monaco. Typically, football clubs would pipe the FC part out. Falcao's main article (and the rest of the current Monaco squad) doesn't use it either. Kosack (talk) 12:55, 12 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Kosack thanks, addressed. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:00, 12 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Source review passed; the list is of sufficient length that I'm not swayed by 3B arguments; promoting. --PresN 15:24, 12 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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