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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Mexican National Trios Champions/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by Scorpion0422 22:46, 25 April 2009 [1].

List of Mexican National Trios Champions edit

Nominator(s): MPJ-DK (talk)
Toolbox

I am nominating this for featured list because I feel that it's up to par with other wrestling championship Featured Lists that have been approved this year and is eager to make this another Featured List article. MPJ-DK (talk) 08:09, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Diaa Abdelmoneim:
  • Style:
  • "Because the championship is a professional wrestling championship, it is not won or lost competitively but is instead, the result is determined by the bookers of a wrestling promotion" Grammar doesn't make sense.
  • You're right, I pasted something in without removing a remnant of the old text, I fixed it. MPJ-DK (talk) 14:31, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"The Mexican National Trios Championship was created in 1985, with Consejo Mundial de Lucha Libre (CMLL) being given the promotional control of the title, with the Commission only being asked to approve the champions." "promotional control of the title"? and don't repeat "with" twice.

  • Fixed

There are many other grammar corrections that should be made. You have to make the plot have a better grammatical structure.

  • You lost me here, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. MPJ-DK (talk) 14:31, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why are some Names bold and others not?
  • They probably shouldn't be in bold at all, the bold indicated (past tense) that the team had a collective name. MPJ-DK (talk) 14:31, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "As of April 13, 2009." delete that, we can see when the last wrestling was through the list.
  • Well it's to indicate that even the "days held" in the table is up to date, there is a template that counts the number of days and well this is used to indicate that the table is 100% up to date.
  • Citations: You should cite in the plot each paragraph
  • Well under the "general references" I put two references that cover EVERYTHING up until and including 2004 unless it has a specific citation. I put them in the general or they'd be used between 10 and 30 times each, which I feel just clutters it up. MPJ-DK (talk) 14:31, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "List of Championship reigns by combined length" should be removed. We already can change the "by" in a sortable list.
  • No you cannot, the first table doesn't combine the lengths at best it puts them next to each other leaving you to do the math so to speak. They're also commonly used on Pro Wrestling Championship pages. MPJ-DK (talk) 14:31, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "What's the difference between "List of individual Championship reigns by combined length" and the first list?
  • One is combined as a team and the other per individual - one speaks to how many teams repeat etc. the other lists how many and how long each individual has held them (usually with different partners). MPJ-DK (talk) 14:31, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Generally the list is very confusing and should be really worked on before becoming Featured.
  • I'm sorry you find it confusing, since I've been working on it and similar lists for quite a while it's not obvious to me what is so confusing about it so if you could be a bit specific?? MPJ-DK (talk) 14:31, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could u also work on more online refs and u shouldn't have references in the Notes section if they aren't accompanied by some note. (What are these references for? Aren't they covered by the general refs?
  • Unfortunately most online wrestling sources do not fall in the Reliable source category while all the printed sources do, I've not yet found many reliable online sources that list title histories, mainly results and that's what I've used for the more recent changes. As for references in notes? Erm I made a couple of foot notes to explain a few terms that may or may not be immediately clear to the reader and thus can expand on it without runing the flow of the main text. If you're askin what the specific references are for then it's easy enough, the book covers up until 2000 (the year it was published) and the magazine reference covers up until 2004 (the year it was published), everything beyond that naturally needs a source as well which I've located. MPJ-DK (talk) 14:31, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's what I see till now.
  • Oppose by Truco -- This should have been peer reviewed.
  • Well I hope your oppose isn't actually because it's not been peer reviewed since that ship has kinda sailed. But in the hopes that that's not the major snag for you I'll just go ahead and address your comments.MPJ-DK (talk) 09:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • No its because I found a lot of issues, and these could have been resolved at WP:PR.
  • That's what I figured, I just had to be sure. And yes my next FLC will definitly go through a peer review first. MPJ-DK (talk) 08:24, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Lead
  • "The Mexican National Trios Championship (Campeonato National Trios in Spanish) is a Mexican professional wrestling three-man Tag team championship created and sanctioned by "Comisión de Box y Lucha Libre Mexico D.F." (the Mexico City Boxing and Wrestling Commission)." -- its not really clear that this title can only be one by a three people. How about The Mexican National Trios Championship (Campeonato National Trios in Spanish) is a Mexican professional wrestling tag team championship that can only be won by a group of three wrestlers; it was created and sanctioned by "Comisión de Box y Lucha Libre Mexico D.F." (the Mexico City Boxing and Wrestling Commission). [tag team is not capitalized]
  • How is "three-man tag team" not clear? I man "three-man tag team" or "group of three wrestlers" to me is the same content, slightly different wrapper. Tag team should not be capitalized, true and fixed. MPJ-DK (talk) 09:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • It really sounds akward, but I'll let it go.--Truco 02:13, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Because the championship is a professional wrestling championship, it is not won or lost competitively, but instead the result is determined by the bookers of a wrestling promotion." --> Because the championship is contested in professional wrestling, it is not won or lost competitively, but instead the result is determined by the bookers of a wrestling promotion.
  • I'd disagree here, "contested" doesn't fit with the explanation that it's not technically won through a competitive match, while you may not agree with my wording at least it's not misleading about the nature of wrestling in any way at all. MPJ-DK (talk) 09:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Okay then, reword to Because the championship is operated in professional wrestling, it is not won or lost competitively, but instead the result is determined by the bookers of a wrestling promotion. (too much repetition of "championship")--Truco 02:13, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The title is awarded after the chosen champion "wins" a match to maintain the illusion that professional wrestling is a competitive sport." --> The title is awarded after the chosen champion "wins" a match to maintain the illusion that professional wrestling is a competitive sport.
  • erm did you just suggest changing the text to the exact same text or have I lost the ability to read? MPJ-DK (talk) 09:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think I was smoking--Truco 02:13, 15 April 2009 (UTC).[reply]
  • "CMLL controlled the Championship from 1985 until 1994 where control was turned over to Asistencia Asesoría y Administración (AAA)." --> CMLL controlled the championship from 1985 until 1994, when control was turned over to Asistencia Asesoría y Administración (AAA).
  • "The first champions of the AAA controlled era were Los Hermanos Dinamita (Cien Caras, Mascara Año 2000 and Universo 2000), who had held the title before in CMLL, and had jumped to AAA since then." --> The first champions under the control of the AAA were Los Hermanos Dinamita (Spanish for "The Dynamite Brothers")[Cien Caras, Mascara Año 2000 and Universo 2000]. [Its not necessary to know that they jumped since it did not affect their title reign or the title itself.
  • "When AAA began to co-promote events with Promotora Mexicana de Lucha Libre (PROMELL) the Championship became jointly controlled." --> When the AAA began to co-promote events with Promotora Mexicana de Lucha Libre (PROMELL), the title became jointly operated. [Championship is not capitalized when used by itself, too much use of "control"]
  • Done and good point I will remember for future articles. MPJ-DK (talk) 09:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "When AAA and PROMELL split up in 1996 the Championship was vacated." --> When the AAA and PROMELL split up in 1996, the championship was vacated.
  • "Subsequently the Commission returned the Championship to CMLL, allowing them to hold a tournament to crown the new champions." --> Subsequently, the Commission returned the championship to CMLL, allowing them to hold a tournament to crown the new champions. [it would help if you note who won the titles]
  • "Since 1996 the titles have been under the exclusive control of CMLL." --> Since 1996, the titles have been under the exclusive control of CMLL.
  • Done
  • "It's the first reign as a team although Sangre Azteca has held the titles before with Dr. X and Nitro." --> It's their first reign as a team, although Azteca has held the title before with Dr. X and Nitro.
  • Los Brazos (El Brazo, Brazo de Oro and Brazo de Plata), Los Payasos (Coco Rojo, Coco Azul and Coco Amarillo) and Los Hermanas Dinamita (Cien Caras, Mascara Año 2000 and Universo 2000) are the only teams to hold the title more than once, while Pirata Morgan, Sagrado, Volador, Jr. and Sangre Azteca have held the title twice as well but with different partners. -- (1)You need to state the Spanish equivalents for the tag team names (2)Its Hermanos not "Hermanas" (3)The link to "Los Hermanos Dinamita" needs to go on its first mention, which is before this. Then remove the link here and remove the names of the wrestlers because you would have already mentioned them (4)"to hold the title" --> to hold the titles because you are talking about the team not individually (5)"while Pirata Morgan, Sagrado, Volador, Jr. and Sangre Azteca have held the title twice as well but with different partners." --> while Pirata Morgan, Sagrado, Volador, Jr. and Azteca have held the title twice as well, but with different partners. (6) As of when is this?
  • (1) You mean the English translations? If so done.
  • Um, right.--Truco 02:13, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • (2) Done.
  • (3) Done.
  • (4) Done. Although I don't see singular as wrong, it's one title, one championship just three belts. But either is cool
  • (5) Done.
  • (6) As of when? as of right now, it's totally up to date after all but it can easily be added. MPJ-DK (talk) 09:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • the table already has that, I reworded it to match the TNA Tag one but it already had the "as of "todays date", easy fix. MPJ-DK (talk) 08:24, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Blue Panther, Fuerza Guerrera and El Signo are the team with the longest reign of 1,728 days while Los Payasos held the title for only 1,728 days, which is the shortest time of any championship team. --> As of (date), Blue Panther, Fuerza Guerrera and El Signo have the longest reign as a team, at 1,728 days, while Los Payasos have the shortest reign, at 1,728.
  • Technically it's "as of the day the current champions eclipsed Los Payasos reign". Is there really a need to repeat the date since I already stated the date once? When the title changes hands the text will be updated. MPJ-DK (talk) 09:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • As long as you add a transition, then no.--Truco 02:13, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
List
  • The wrestler column should not be sortable because sorting it by stable name/wrestler name is not representative of the whole list.
  • I'm not sure what you mean, it sorts by stable name when there is one, otherwise by first person listed - why is that a problem? MPJ-DK (talk) 09:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The thing with tag teams (duo), its easier to sort by the wrestlers (especially when they are listed in alphabetical order) like in List of WCW World Tag Team Champions. Now, in this list, you have "Team Name / Wrestlers" in the column header, which automatically shows that the content is not listed consistently, so it will be best if you don't sort it at all or format it like in the WCW list to sort by the wrestler (in alpha. order)--Truco 02:13, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fair point, I've made it unsortable. MPJ-DK (talk) 08:24, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've checked and I cannot find another wrestling champions FLC where it's not sortable by team/wrestler. That's not to say it can't be changed but I'd need more of a reason than just one reviewer saying so. MPJ-DK (talk) 10:47, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • You need to make mention in the notes about when control of the championship was turned over from AAA/CMLL
  • Under the wrestler column you need to clarify what the name in small font in parenthesis means
  • I'll check out FLs on tag teams and see how they do it. MPJ-DK (talk) 09:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Alright they handled in the colum header, so that's what I did too. MPJ-DK (talk) 10:47, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some of the names in small font need parenthesis.
  • "Championship vacated when Nicho el Millonario no-showed a title defense against Los Nuevo Infernales . The titles were offered to Los Infernales by default, however, Satánico, on behalf of his team, refused" --> The championship was vacated when Nicho el Millonario no-showed a title defense against Los Nuevo Infernales. The titles were offered to Los Infernales by default, however, Satánico, on behalf of his team, refused.
Image
  • "Nicho el Millionario, part of the 22nd. Mexican National Trios Champions along with Halloween and Dámien 666" --> Nicho el Millionario, one third of the 22nd Mexican National Trios Champions along with Halloween and Dámien 666
Reign lengths
  • What does 273 ¤ mean?
  • Well see if I had remembered to actually put this explanation in the "Key" you'd know this but well I forgot. Now it's fixed. MPJ-DK (talk) 09:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Footnotes
  • In this, "control" refers to the every day use of the title, determining which storylines the title is being used it, who gets to challenge for the title, how to use it in a public relations sense. --> --Truco 16:50, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Despite being a bit cryptic I think I figured it out. Done. MPJ-DK (talk) 09:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry. Remove the "--", and the beginning should not be "In this" and instead In this statement, the "it" in "being used it" should be in. Also, add an and before "how".--Truco 02:13, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I just now noticed aht the "--" is part of your signature, apparently you're not the only one smoking. Fixed. MPJ-DK (talk) 08:24, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Everything in the lead looks better now except the following..
  • "As of April 14, 2009, Los Brazos (Spanish for "the Arms", the team of El Brazo, Brazo de Oro and Brazo de Plata), Los Payasos (Spanish for "the Clowns", the team of Coco Rojo, Coco Azul and Coco Amarillo) and Los Hermanos Dinamita are the only teams to hold the titles more than once, while Pirata Morgan, Sagrado, Volador, Jr. and Azteca have held the title twice as well, but with different partners." -- its really confusing IMO how its setup, how about setting it up like (Spanish for "The Clowns": Coco Rojo, Coco Azul, and Coco Amarillo)? In addition, the "the" should be capitalized because it is part of the proper noun in English. [This also applies to the other sentence set up like this in the 2nd paragraph]--Truco 02:12, 16 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not quite, the commas need to be colons after the translation.--Truco 00:56, 17 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments -

  • "with Consejo Mundial de Lucha Libre (CMLL) being given..." is a noun plus -ing sentence structure. For more on how to fix this hard-to-spot prose glitch, please read this guide.
  • Fixed, I think. (very helpful link btw. thanks). MPJ-DK (talk) 07:55, 16 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hyphen for "AAA controlled".
  • "the championship was vacated.Subsequently...". Space needed after period.
  • Comma after "As of April 14, 2009".
  • Blue Panther and Fuerza Guerrera are linked twice in the lead. It's better to avoid repetitive links whenever possible.
  • "are the team with the longest reign of 1,728 days...". This makes it sound like there was more than one team that held the title that long. A re-wording is in order.
  • Check the notes in the table to see if any need periods.
  • Done, added periods for the full sentences. MPJ-DK (talk) 07:55, 16 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why are the teams not sortable in the main table? They are in the table below.
  • They were made unsortable after a suggestion above from Truco, I forgot to do that to the secondary table, fixed. MPJ-DK (talk) 07:55, 16 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • In footnote 2, change the comma to a semi-colon. Giants2008 (17-14) 23:24, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 12:19, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)
Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)
  • "While the commission"-->Although the commission
  • "events at which"-->events in which
  • "From 1933 until the mid-1990s"-->From 1933 to the mid-1990s
  • Done, although those dates are from a different article the problem remains the same. MPJ-DK (talk) 10:55, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Mexican National Trios Championship was created in 1985, Consejo Mundial de Lucha Libre (CMLL) had the promotional control of the title, and the Commission only being asked to approve the champions." Not a grammatical sentence. Sentences may need to be split up.
  • "Subsequently" Delete this word, it's not necessary.
  • "Since 1996, the titles have been under the exclusive control of CMLL."-->Since 1996, the titles have been exclusively controlled by CMLL.
  • "more than once, while Pirata Morgan, Sagrado, Volador, Jr. and Azteca have held the title twice as well, but with different partners."
  • "more than once, while Pirata Morgan, Sagrado, Volador, Jr. and Azteca have held the title twice as well, but with different partners."-->more than once; Pirata Morgan, Sagrado, Volador, Jr. and Azteca have also held the title twice, but with different partners. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:40, 16 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Done. MPJ-DK (talk) 10:55, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sorry it took so long to work on the suggestions, I didn't realize that you had commented, somehow I must have missed it. MPJ-DK (talk) 10:55, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 12:19, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Honestly I don't think it is, it also doesn't source anything controversial - "wrestling is predetermined" is hardly controversial. I forgot who suggested the source, but I agree it's not really obviously reliable. I've removed it, if it's really necessary then I'll look through my book collection and find something but honestly I don't think it needs it. MPJ-DK (talk) 10:55, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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