Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Yoshi's New Island/archive3

Yoshi's New Island

Nominator(s): ★ The Green Star Collector ★ (talk) 03:44, 9 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yoshi's New Island is a 2014 platform game developed by Arzest and published by Nintendo for the Nintendo 3DS... Still.

Third time's the charm? After two previous nominations and a peer review in the middle, I firmly believe this article is finally ready for FA status. I've reached out to several editors involved in the second nomination to implement additional feedback beforehand, just to be safe. Of course, new editors and new feedback are always welcome and appreciated. Please note that no additional references have been added to the article since the most recent nomination, nor have any changes been made to existing references.

Courtesy pings to all editors who actively participated in the second nomination: @Thelifeofan413: @UpTheOctave!: @Vacant0: @Hahnchen: ★ The Green Star Collector ★ (talk) 03:44, 9 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Vacant0

Considering that issues that I've found in the previous FAC nomination and the feedback I've left on the article's talk page have been addressed, I'll support this hopefully final nomination. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 09:10, 9 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'll do a source review in the coming days. @The Green Star Collector: I'd suggest asking fellow editors to review this nomination. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 13:34, 27 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Good call. I'll ping every other editor involved in the previous nominations one last time to see if there's anything I'm overlooking: @Thelifeofan413: @Cukie Gherkin: @SchroCat: @UpTheOctave!: @Hahnchen: ★ The Green Star Collector ★ (talk) 21:59, 27 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

VentureBeat, Nintendo World Report, PC Magazine, Polgon, Joystiq, Shacknews, Eurogamer, Digital Trends, Kotaku, Siliconera, Nintendo Life, EGM, GameSpot, IGN, Famitsu, GamesRadar, The Observer, Edge, and Ars Technica are all high-quality reliable sources present across FAs.
TheGamer, however, is not a high-quality source and I recommend finding a replacement for it.
Why do you think Destructoid is high-quality in this case?
What is the reliability of inside-games.jp?

@Vacant0:

I'm seeing that News posts and original content after August 2020 are considered generally reliable for TheGamer, with this particular article having been published in 2022 and updated in 2024. I've also found retrospective takes from Valnet's Screen Rant and Game Rant, though I can see that both publications fall into the same reliability category as TheGamer. I can remove the source if absolutely needed, though I haven't been able to locate a good replacement for it.
The author of the Destructoid review has been writing for the site since 2009 and was reviews director at the time of the review's publication. The other Destructoid source's author has written almost 1,500 articles for the site since 2015 as an editor-at-large.
The reliability of inside-games.jp is unclear.

(This is reiterating some of my responses to UpTheOctave!'s source review in the preceding nomination.) ★ The Green Star Collector ★ (talk) 20:16, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'd then recommend removing TheGamer and inside-games.jp references from the article. I'll do a spotcheck by the end of the week. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 20:00, 2 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Gameplay

Ref 1 done
Ref 3 done
Ref 8 done
Ref 9 done
Ref 10 mentions that you got 10 seconds to pick up Mario, I don't see a mention of 30 seconds (Ref 2 seems to mention this)
Ref 2 done
Ref 13 done
Ref 15 I don't see "For each flower collected in a level, one is added to the ring" being mentioned
Ref 16 done
Ref 17 done
Ref 15, 17 I don't see Super Yoshi being mentioned, though the rest is backed up by these sources
Ref 19 done
Ref 21 done
Ref 18 done

Development and release

Ref 27 done
Ref 13 done
Ref 31 done
Ref 26 done
Ref 29 done
Ref 32 done
Ref 33 done
Ref 35 done
Ref 42 done
Ref 44 done
Ref 2 done

Reception

Ref 45 done
Ref 47 done
Ref 5 done
Ref 2 done
Ref 50 done
Ref 17 done
Ref 49 done
Ref 30 done
Ref 51 done
Ref 54 done
Ref 46 done
Ref 53 done
Ref 30 done
Ref 54 done
Ref 2 done
Ref 17 done
Ref 1, 54 I don't see gyroscope being mentioned
Ref 18 done
Ref 51 done
Ref 55 done
Ref 58 done

Thank you for the source review, @Vacant0:

The Digital Trends ref does mention that stars can be "spent" to extend the amount of time you can be separated from Baby Mario (you can store up to 30), though I've swapped this out with ref 2 so it's less confusing.
I added a different Nintendo World Report ref for the flower ring info.
I added a booklet ref for the name of the Super Yoshi transformation.
I replaced "gyroscope controls" with "motion controls", since this is better reflected in refs 1 and 54.

★ The Green Star Collector ★ (talk) 21:29, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, that's better. You should now remove TheGamer and inside-games.jp referecnes from the article. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 08:56, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Done ★ The Green Star Collector ★ (talk) 13:05, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

My source review is done. Support on prose and sources. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 17:45, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

On another note, I've forgot to mention that there should be consistency with the |publisher= parameter, some references use it, some don't (e.g. Ars Technica is owned by Conde Nast and it's not mentioned). You can also remove the parameter if you want. The style is also consistent, all references are written in sentence case. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 17:54, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed the publisher from every citation. Going forward, I will omit this parameter for consistency. ★ The Green Star Collector ★ (talk) 02:08, 10 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Noleander

Regarding footnote Known in Japan as Yoshi New Island (Japanese: ヨッシー New アイランド, Hepburn: Yosshī Nyū Airando) - The "Known in Japan as Yoshi New Island" is confusing to me... they speak Japanese in Japan, not English. And when I run the first Japanese name thru Google Translate, it gives me the possessive: "Yoshi's New Island". Suggest either (a) drop the English name entirely from that footnote; or (b) provide a source that positively says that the Japanese name is _not_ possessive.

Mid-sentence citations: Yoshi's New Island is a platform game[1] with gameplay.... The game features six areas on the island known as worlds, each comprising eight mandatory levels and two optional levels,[1] for a total of 60 courses.... The superscript citations in middle of sentences is a bit ugly & intrusive. I don't think the WP MOS prohibits them, but - in my opinion - they interrupt the reading flow, and hence should not be used unless there is a compelling reason. I would expect them to be found only in the middle of sentences that are very contentious. Another: .... collected by jumping through a roulette ring,[3] which functions as the goal of most levels[13] and replaces the post-leve... Is there a strong reason you avoided putting those superscripts at the end of the sentences? Did some editor challenge those specific assertions that have the mid-sentence cites?

Cites in plot: . Moreover, it is revealed that "Mr. Pipe",[25] a moving Warp Pipe who supplied the ... I believe that WP generally discourages citations within a Plot section. Probably not a strong rule, but it is odd that the Plot section in this article is mostly free of cites, then - boom - there is one near the end.

As of when? The Lead says: The game has sold more than two million copies worldwide and... Statements like that alway make me suspicious ... when was that statement valid? See WP:As of. I see that the "Sales" section in the body correctly specifies an "as of" date.

That's all I have. Seems like a decent article. Noleander (talk) 02:39, 11 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments, @Noleander: I've done my part to address some of them:

My guess is that the "Known in Japan" part is just trying to find the closest Japanese → English translation. I've seen this in a few other articles, but I can remove it if needed.

If the source for this is giving the English phrase that Japanese speakers use (when they are required to identify the game in English) then the article should say exactly that; also: including the Japanese spelling of the game is making it hard for readers to understand that point. If that is the point. Noleander (talk) 22:20, 11 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I've gone ahead and cut the "Known in Japan as Yoshi New Island" portion; the Japanese and Hepburn names will suffice. ★ The Green Star Collector ★ (talk) 23:48, 11 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I try to include citations mid-sentence only if the information isn't supported by a citation at the end. I could try bundling them, though I find this makes it confusing which citation supports which piece of information and leads to clusters.

Mid-sentence cites are permitted in WP, so this is no reason to oppose FA. But it is a balancing act the editor must perform: balancing flow/readability vs citation clarity. Very few readers will scrutinize the cites, but all readers will read the sentence. When I do that balance, the conclusion is to favor readability. I don't understand what you mean by "I could try bundling them ..." ... the article already has many sentences that end with 2 or 3 superscripts, such as ... that the platforming was rarely difficult.[8][17][50] Can that approach be used to eliminate the mid-sentence superscripts? If you want to help the reader know which specific fact is supported by the source, you can put that in the citation. e.g. "Smith, 2015, "New game arrives" page 14. Game rating is 82.5 In this example, you add the specific fact (rating is 82.5) at the end of the citation. That would only be required in the handful of mid-sentence cites that you move to the end of the sentence, not all cites. Again, mid-sentence cites are no reason to Oppose for FA .... I'm merely suggesting how to improve reader's flow. Noleander (talk) 22:20, 11 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Noleander: Apologies for my late response, but I was actually able to cut or bundle quite a few of these citations in the gameplay and development/release sections while ensuring every statement is still supported. If you wanted to take another look over, that would be much appreciated. ★ The Green Star Collector ★ (talk) 20:13, 24 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

To my knowledge, Mr. Pipe's name is never actually mentioned anywhere in the game, so I would recommend including just this one reference in the plot section.
Specified the relevant year for the statement about the game selling two million copies.

★ The Green Star Collector ★ (talk) 20:13, 11 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@The Green Star Collector: Replied above, below specific topics. Noleander (talk) 22:20, 11 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The Green Star Collector, nudge. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:38, 24 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

... some more comments added by Noleander 25 April 2025:

Terminology: The game features six areas on the island known as worlds, each comprising eight mandatory levels and two optional levels, for a total of 60 courses. I gather the terms "course" & "level" are synonyms? I believe "level" is more common, especially in US. Consider using "level" exclusively in the article, so as to minimize confusion to readers unfamiliar with gaming.

Trim unneeded words: Much like that of its predecessors, Yoshi's New Island's gameplay revolves around ... Consider Like its predecessors, Yoshi's New Island's gameplay revolves around ... or Yoshi's New Island's gameplay revolves around ...

No need to identify source in Lead: According to producer Takashi Tezuka, a sequel to Yoshi's Island was chosen.. When I see a source explicitly named like that ("According to producer Takashi") it draws my attention, and makes me think the fact is contentious, e.g. a controversial opinion. I'm not sure there is any need to name the source in the Lead, which is supposed to be a very high overview. Maybe omit source from Lead, and put into the body text?

Include job title: The game was first announced by Satoru Iwata ... consider naming that persons title e.g. "producer Satoru Iwata ..."

To use a source within an FA nominated article, it is generally required that the nominator read all the sources (at least, the parts of the sources relevant to the article). A few of the sources are in Japanese (14, 43, 47). Have you read those? If you cannot read Japanese, perhaps you can post a query at Wikipedia talk:Featured articles asking if it is okay to rely on the translated versions of those sources?

Categories: They are appropriate & alphabetized.

External links: "US official site" external link appears to have a dead URL: https://www.nintendo.com/store/products/yoshis-new-island-3ds/ That is not permitted by WP:ELDEAD. The archived version of the "US official site" is still of interest, but it would have to be in a footnote or someplace less conspicuous.

Ditto for this external link: https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/yoshis-new-island-3ds

Wording second to last ... consider next to last ... so fast readers don't read it as "second"

Image free-use: The article has only two images; both are copyright, and both have "fair use" justifications that seem satisfactory (but I am not a copyright expert)

Leaning 'Support'. @The Green Star Collector: after you've addressed/resolved the above items, notify me and I can make another pass. Note that some of the above are optional suggestions. Noleander (talk) 00:22, 26 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Noleander: Most of your recent suggestions should now be addressed. I feel sufficiently confident in my understanding of the Japanese articles, at least the parts that are relevant to this article. With regard to the dead external links, should the archived versions also be removed or simply relocated? ★ The Green Star Collector ★ (talk) 03:46, 26 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think those dead archive links are historically valuable. Just try keeping them in the article but hide them in a footnote. Maybe a footnote at the end of the some other external link. Noleander (talk) 04:40, 26 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support Noleander (talk) 14:04, 26 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Image and source review

Image placement, ALT and rationales seem OK. I see spotchecking was done above. I'll disclaim that I am relying heavily on WP:VGRS for the sources now: Are Chris Carter and Andriessen, CJ from Destructoid and Klepek, Patrick from Giant Bomb reliable sources? Same for Slant Magazine. Siliconera apparently is only barely acceptable as a source, so probably unsuitable for FA. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:05, 7 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Jo-Jo Eumerus: The author of the Destructoid review was the site's reviews director at the time of publication, while the author of the other Destructoid article was an editor-at-large. Likewise, Klepek was a news editor for Giant Bomb, and his name even redirects to Wikipedia's article for the site. LeChevallier authored more than 200 articles for Slant Magazine between 2011 and 2015, though I can remove this source if absolutely necessary. I've also removed the Siliconera citations wherever possible, though we do still have to rely on a few for the name of the art director as well as some key sales info. ★ The Green Star Collector ★ (talk) 13:12, 7 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Jo-Jo Eumerus: I don't mean to bother you, but are you satisfied with the above response, and is there anything else you wished to add? ★ The Green Star Collector ★ (talk) 23:35, 12 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No, I think it's fine now. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 06:53, 16 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - This article needs a copy edit. Even in the lead, there are confusing elements, such as:
- "to safely transport the infant Mario across the island in a series of levels ~~while escorting him across the island~~ to his brother, Luigi." - you're already transporting Mario, why repeat it with the word 'escorting'
- "A sequel to Yoshi's Island was chosen rather than a follow-up to Yoshi's Story due..." - chosen by whom?
- "neutral opinions on its aesthetics and level design" - I assume you mean mixed opinions. Reviews would be boring if they just state everything is "OK".
  - hahnch e n 16:23, 16 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Hahnchen: I've gone ahead and made some copy edits throughout the article. As for the suggestions for the lede:

Rephrased the objective of the game to safely transport the infant Mario to his brother Luigi by completing a series of levels across the island.
It's somewhat unclear who chose this. Producer Takahashi Tezuka stated that we thought it would be the perfect choice for a new Yoshi action game, though I'm unsure whether this refers to just him, a portion of the development team, the whole development team, etc.
I've changed "neutral" to "divided", as I would strongly prefer not to use the word "mixed" twice in one sentence.

★ The Green Star Collector ★ (talk) 17:22, 16 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Coord note

Discussion has stalled with limited support to promote. Unless that changes in the next few days the nomination is liable to be archived. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 22:48, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]