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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Kit (association football)

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 00:09, 31 January 2008.

Kit (association football) edit

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Self nomination - I only discovered this article just over a week ago and was surprised to find out poor it was. I spent last week working on it and it's now approximately ten times longer and, I feel, now up to FA standard.... ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:58, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from The Rambling Man (talk · contribs)
Resolved stuff from The Rambling Man

Hey Chris, I know I just commented at the PR but some more things you could consider...!

  • "Kit...is the standard equipment and attire worn..." and then "...specify the minimum equipment which a player..." - possibly you need to replace the "equipment" in the second sentence with "kit"?
Done
  • "numbers 1–11" - I know what this means but with my non-expert hat on, perhaps expand a touch so "numbers from 1 to 11, corresponding to..."...?
Done
  • Not overwhelmed by the lead image. I think it'd be a bit better to show a typical footballer perhaps so you have shirt, shorts, socks, boots as a minimum rather than just the jersey? Perhaps swap with the Stevie G image?
Done
  • "it is not unknown, especially at international level, for teams to opt to wear their away kit even when not required to by a clash of colours, or to wear it at home." - any chance of an example, say England's recent penchant for playing in red at Wembley a la 1966?
Done
  • "Depending on local rules, there may be restrictions on how large the logo may be or on what logos may be displayed.[9] A player's number is usually printed on the back of the shirt, although international teams often also print numbers on the front.[10] Professional teams generally use a squad number system and also print a player's surname above his number.[11] Competitions such as the Premier League may also require players to wear patches on their sleeves depicting the logo of the competition.[12]" - a number of short sentences, consider improving the flow of this section.
Done
Done
  • Perhaps expand a bit on exactly why United changed at half time - I seem to recall they were 3-0 down at half-time and "won the second half" 1-0 in their traditional red?
Done - I haven't specified it in the article, as I don't feel it's especially important and the source doesn't say anyway, but didn't they switch to blue for the second half? They couldn't have switched to red given that they were playing Southampton.......

It's an excellent article. Let me know when you've looked at these comments... Cheers! The Rambling Man (talk) 18:03, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks as ever for your comments, I've addressed them all now, I think.... ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:41, 23 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Stuff what I said weren't right is now. Innit. Great work as always, a pleasure to work with you Chris, keep churning these FA's out and keep involving the community. It's great to be a part of it. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:56, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved stuff from Woody
  • Comments In basic equipment, could you not reword the first sentence a little bit to get rid of the large parentheses.
  • "which does not retain the sweat and body heat which would be trapped by a shirt made of a natural fibre." Could this not be reworded?
Done, I think
  • "used in the olden days" Bit colloquial isn't it?
Done, I think
  • For the refs match kits, I remember a game at Villa where the referee was forced to weat a white jumper at half time because he was indistinguishable from the players. It was David Elleray, I believe. Something that could be mentioned in reference to conventions. (If you think so of course)
I'll see if I can find a source for this. I used to have David Elleray's book, in which he discussed either this incident or a very similar one, but unfortunately I gave it away.....
Done - found a source and added it in
  • "Blackburn Rovers, for example, adopted halved shirts based on those of the team for former pupils of Malvern College, one of the schools where the sport had developed, but in light blue and white as these were the colours of Cambridge University, where a number of the club's founders had been educated." This is a very long sentence, a reword perhaps?
Done, I think
  • "Two years later Argentina's Club Atlético Independiente chose their red shirts after watching Nottingham Forest play" :Who chose exactly, the cub directors?
the source doesn't say specifically. Is it especially important who made the actual decision......?
  • I gave it a copyedit, adding in some commas, breaking up some sentences. It looks very good, and it reads well. Let me know if there are questions. Good work. Woody (talk) 14:37, 23 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your comments! ChrisTheDude (talk) 14:53, 23 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support now. All my comments dealt with quickly. Sorry for the late reply! Woody (talk) 21:57, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Meant to chip in at the peer review but missed the opportunity. A very good article, but I have a concern about Anglocentrism. It is insufficient to merit an oppose, but I have left comments about this and a couple of other things on the talk page. Oldelpaso (talk) 19:34, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Again sorry for not seeing this at PR. One omission springs to mind re:sponsorship, particularly national sides not having sponsorship and also was it Barca who have refused to have sponsors logo destroy their famous shirts? Peanut4 (talk) 00:05, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Bilbao too, right? indopug (talk) 06:13, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Response to the last two comments (three if you include the bit about Bilbao :-) ): All good points which I will endeavour to address shortly.... ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:47, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've been through and removed what I perceived to be the most glaring Anglocentrisms (is that the correct word? is it even a word at all? :-) ), I'll address the other points you raised shortly..... ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:03, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
PS That'll teach me for rushing it to FAC ;-) ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:03, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I think/hope I've now addressed all the comments raised above and on the talk page with the exception of national teams not having sponsored shirts - I haven't as yet found a source that discusses this concept..... ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:08, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Part support I really like it. It's got some great images to support the work, well referenced, and well-written. I just think there will always be some omissions. Whether they're so trivial that they don't need including, I'm not sure. Some examples would include:
  • Support all issues addressed. Peanut4 (talk) 14:35, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved stuff from Peanut4
    • Lack of sponsors' logos on international shirts (I've already mentioned this above)
      • As mentioned above, I can't find a source that discusses this, I will keep looking though.......
    • Leeds' famous / stupid (delete as applicable) tags on the socks to throw to the crowd after games.
      • That's a bit of a trivial/minor event, I think, in the overall history of kit.....
    • Leeds copying Madrid's colours. (Though some other examples of copying already there - I just thought an English club copying a foreign one would add some balance)
      • Will look for a source to confirm this then whack it in...
        • Done - found a source and added it in
    • International team colours largely following national colour
      • Ditto
        • Done - found a source and added it in
    • Banned articles including the wristbands, which became such a fad almost every kid was wearing up to three
      • What wristbands were those? I seem to have missed that fad......
        • Probably trivial then. I meant the ones that Lance Armstrong started (Livestrong). I know many refs asked players to take them off and some FAs banned them because of broken fingers. I expect it's probably best to leave out. Peanut4 (talk) 01:11, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Controversy about how often some teams (e.g. Man U; but certainly a big bone of contention in England) changed their shirts
      • Will look for a source to confirm this then whack it in...
        • Done - added it in
    • Goalkeepers shirts becoming more outrageous and garish. Particularly Jorge Campos who designed his own for the 94 (?) World Cup
      • Again, I think that's pretty trivial. The garish nature of 1990s shirts is already discussed.....
There might be more, and some (even all!) may not be worthy of inclusion. But overall it's a great piece of work. Peanut4 (talk) 02:00, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks for your comments! ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Some great additions there. Superb. Peanut4 (talk) 01:11, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Just from having a quick look at it, I think it would be a good idea to find a few different images. In the current state, it appears extremely UK-centric, imho. EnemyOfTheState (talk) 20:16, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • I have significantly revised the images used, hopefully it is an improvement...... ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:51, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
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