Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/God of War III/archive4

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 02:17, 28 February 2015 (UTC) [1].

---

God of War III

Nominator(s): JDC808 ♫ 18:38, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

This article is about the 2010 PlayStation 3 video game God of War III, the best-selling game in this series and one of PlayStation's most popular game series. This is the article's fourth nomination here. The last nomination was about a year ago. After that FAC closed, I took a break from Wikipedia and only made some intermediate edits here and there. I've recently come back and had this article copy-edited by the GOCE, which was something that was said was needed in the previous FAC. I will respond promptly to any issues or concerns. JDC808 ♫ 18:38, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Comments from hahnchen

• Oppose
  • "first-person kills" deathcam is trivial and needn't be mentioned.
    • Done
  • "On December 8, Stig Asmussen..." - Really weird way to announce Barlog's departure. You begin with the Asmussen quote and the reader has no idea why you're doing that. Start off by making the point, "Barlog left the studio..." or something similar.
    • Done
  • Put the "interest in a cooperative mode" sentence with the other multiplayer mention.
    • Done
  • What's the difference between "early development" and "pre-release"? Why is the length of the game in one section, but the length of the script in the other?
    • What do you not understand about the difference? They are straight forward. Early development is just that. Pre-release is the few months before it was released.
      • That you moved the game length section from "early development" to "pre-release" suggests they are arbitrary. It's why I put the two questions together.
  • CGSociety link broken.
    • See the archive link (this is why they are there).
      • At the time of the review, webcitation was down.
  • I would move all the trailer talk commentary into release/marketing.
    • Why?
      • Releasing a trailer is not a development milestone, it's a marketing one. It'd also make the Sixaxis stuff sit together. Consider putting the controller stuff together anyway.
  • No need to quote Asmussen to say the trailer is in game. Just state it is in game and reference it.
    • Done
  • There's generally a lot of trivial dates in the article, "On October 28, 2009, it was announced that the Blu-ray version of the film District 9 would include a God of War III demo", "The Blu-ray version of District 9 was released on December 22". I think it very unlikely the reader cares about the press release at all.
  • This review of the soundtrack may be worth a mention.
    • Done
  • You don't mention who actually performs the soundtrack.
    • Done
  • The soundtrack's label seems to be Sumthing Else. Looks like they have some licensing agreement with SCE.
    • Done
  • Why use a niche source like Gamestyle?
    • What's wrong with Gamestyle?
  • "is some next-level stuff" tells the reader absolutely nothing.
    • That's what he says.
      • Then its not worth quoting.
  • One "particularly inappropriate" puzzle, zero context.
    • He did not explicitly state which puzzle.
      • Then its not worth quoting.
  • Calling the game "less diverse" is incredibly broad and bland, and the link is broken.
    • That's what he says. See the archive link.
      • Then its not worth quoting.
  • Consider moving the "most anticipated" awards to the marketing section.
    • Why? It was an award.
      • The awards section generally deals with the game's overall reception. Pre-release awards are essentially the reception of the marketing campaign.
        • I can see what you're saying, but I don't feel that it's enough reason to move this one award.
  • N4G is not a reliable source and I don't think a GameTrailers "Diamond Award" is an award at all.
    • Removed N4G, which happened to include the Diamond Award. I didn't really see a problem with including the award itself, but doing a quick search, I couldn't find a replacement source for it anyways.
  • Who are PS3 Attitude and why do we care?
    • • They're a gaming website that posts news regarding PlayStation games.
    • Not all comments are oppose worthy, but taken together, they are. - hahnchen 18:19, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
      • Some replies above. - hahnchen 00:22, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
        • A couple more things done. Going to work on the trailer stuff and the quotes that you said aren't "worth quoting" tomorrow. --JDC808 ♫ 01:14, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
        • All points addressed now. --JDC808 ♫ 17:12, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Still unconvinced about the reliability/notability of PS3 Attitude.
    • Removed.
  • The "No CGI" section feels clumsy, there looks to be redundancy, you're using a lot of lines to say something simple.
    • I'll work on it.
      • Trimmed back.
  • These articles, http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/the-making-of-god-of-war-iii & http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-how-sony-santa-monica-mastered-the-ps3 are not used. Was there nothing in those articles, the "Making Of" or "Art of" videos that you felt were relevant to the development section? Camera work, animation and anti-aliasing seem interesting, I've not watched the videos.
    • I had never read those articles before. --JDC808 ♫ 05:09, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
      • I've read through the articles. I've added a new paragraph to the development section (and redid the subsections, although I don't know if "Technical" is a good title). --JDC808 ♫ 18:19, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
    • hahnchen 11:35, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
      • Been too busy, so I've struck the oppose, but haven't revisited the article. Did you watch the videos too? This soundtrack review states that there is an interview with the composers as part of the game's bonus content. (I'm not sure about OSV's reliability) The soundtrack section is pretty much all reception, and offers no composer insight. These articles could help too. [2][3] - hahnchen 23:45, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
      • These interviews, particularly about the engine, could be worth a mention.[4][5] - hahnchen 01:47, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
        • Okay, I'll read over those and see what I can do. --JDC808 ♫ 06:09, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
        • Read over and incorporated some. --JDC808 ♫ 18:23, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Comments from ProtoDrake

A few points I must raise.

• The lead. Why must IGN be cited in particular, as the points from the review are generally shared across the reviews. Uncited generalities are allowed in the lead as long as the claims are backed up in the article proper.
  • Because it was IGN who stated those specific points.
• The opening paragraph of the gameplay section look a little clunky to my eye.
  • The first piece that caught my attention: "The gameplay of God of War III is similar to that of its predecessors. It is a third-person, single-player video game from a fixed-camera perspective.[4] The player controls Kratos in combo-based combat, platforming, and puzzle games, battling foes drawn primarily from Greek mythology (including centaurs, harpies, chimeras, cyclopes, satyrs, minotaurs, sirens, cerberuses, and Gorgons). Other enemies were created specifically for the game." Possibly you could rewrite it as "God of War III is a third-person, single-player action-adventure video game. As with previous God of War games, the player controls Kratos from a fixed-camera perspective in combo-based combat, platforming, and puzzle games. The enemies are a mixture of creatures drawn from Greek mythology and monsters created for the game.
    • Done.
  • The next is the sentence about puzzles: "Although some puzzles are simple, others—such as finding several items in different areas of the game to unlock a door—are more complex.[5]" Perhaps you could specify how many puzzles are simple, and refine the second part into something like "more complex puzzles involving retrieving items from multiple areas."
    • Without playing the game again, I don't have a count of how many puzzles are simple, and I don't believe any sources do either (the ones I've come across do not). The complex puzzle part is trimmed back as per suggestion.
  • The most I can say about the combat system is that... it needs some condensing here and there. I'll leave the exact details up to you.
    • I don't see where it needs condensing. Unless some sentences can become more concise without loosing information (not sure how more concise it could be), condensing it any further is going to lose information and may make things unclear.
• George Bell (voice actor) should not be linked if there isn't an article for him.
  • Don't see why it's a problem (as an article could be made), but okay.

That's what stood out right now. I'll probably be back for more. --ProtoDrake (talk) 20:10, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

• Okay. --JDC808 ♫ 21:06, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

• @JDC808:, I can't actually see anything else very wrong. I found some dead links and fixed them for you. In general, I Support this article's promotion. --ProtoDrake (talk) 14:56, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

• Thank you and thank you for the broken link fixes. --JDC808 ♫ 15:24, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Tezero

• I think I'm going to make this standard in my FA/GA reviews, as I've been doing it lately: I've done a brief copyedit before anything else. Feel free to revert or adjust as needed.
  • Looks fine, thanks.
• "others are more complex and require the player to retrieve items from multiple areas" - that doesn't sound complex; the Lego games do that. Could you provide an example if you think it's complex?
  • It was explained a little more but another reviewer suggested to trimming it down to that. Will work on.
  • Might need a copy-edit, but I've expanded it. --JDC808 ♫ 17:03, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
• You can choose which, if any, to remove or restructure around, but I see a noticeable overuse of parentheses; these should be rare in encyclopedic writing to avoid losing focus or including esoteric details.
  • Okay, I'll look through and see what I can do.
  • Parenthetical bits taken care of, I think. After going through it, a lot of the parenthesis were done by the last GOCE copy-editor. --JDC808 ♫ 16:49, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
• I remember seeing articles about the sex minigame back when this game was released, but doesn't it only occur once, not even lasting very long? If so, why is that worthy of a mention in Gameplay?
  • It uses the same mechanics as the quick-time event feature mentioned before it, and it became a standard feature for the series up until the last game.

Done up through Gameplay. Tezero (talk) 02:49, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

• "on the fictional Mount Olympus" - I don't think it's appropriate to call religious beliefs "fictional" - or is this a fictional version of it?
  • It would be a fictional version, or rather an alternate version.
• "and the Underworld and Tartarus" - why are these grouped together and not just ", the Underworld, and Tartarus"?
  • I had taken away the parenthesis around "such as the Forum and Hera's Gardens" and if I would have made it like how you're saying (which it was when the parenthesis were there), it would sound like the Underworld and Tartarus are also part of the Palace of the Gods.
• "the remains of his wife" - per WP:EASTER, piped links are discouraged; could you rephrase this as something like "the remains of his wife, who was killed in ..."?
  • Okay.
• "who was banished when Kratos retrieved Pandora's Box from Pandora's Temple, still chained to his back" - confusing; what was chained to whose back?
  • The temple. Not sure if clearer now.
• The constant actor names are kind of distracting; have you considered creating a "cast" section? Normally these are frowned upon, but I think it'd be accepted if they're all notable actors and their acting is covered elsewhere in the body, which it is.
  • A good while ago (like 3 years if not more), we had a cast section, which like you said is frowned upon with video game articles (which I personally find silly). This was basically what we agreed upon (by we, I mean a couple of others who were editing the article back then). --JDC808 ♫ 23:17, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
• "his death floods the world" - ???
  • Clarified, I think.
• Might want to mention earlier that Hera controls all plant life a la Poison Ivy from Batman; it kinda comes out of nowhere that killing her ends all of it.
  • Done.
• How unknown is Kratos' fate if he was "near death" when he offed himself? I'm genuinely asking - I haven't played any of the God of War games since I was mostly a Nintendo kid.
  • Right before the end of the credits, it's believed he died, but right after the credits, there's a trail of blood leading off to the edge of the cliff. He might have jumped off or he might have climbed down and is surviving somewhere. That's what's unknown.

Done up through Plot. Tezero (talk) 22:05, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

• "In 2007, God of War creator and game director David Jaffe explained his original idea for the series, saying that it would be "hell on earth" as the gods and Titans battle each other for domination; "God of War explains, or ultimately will explain, why there are no more Greek myths"." - ambiguous; by "original" do you mean this was what he intended at first, or that the idea had never been tried before? This idea seems to be contrasted with what actually came into play in GoW3; was this his current idea in 2007, or only before then? I'd suggest reworking a lot of the first half of the first paragraph of Development for clarity.
  • It's what he originally intended. 2007 was when this particular interview happened. Done some reworking.
• "individual tasks could take a year" - what kind of original tasks? A year would be quite a short time to develop an entire triple-A game, pay off one's mortgage, get a medical degree, or learn Mandarin fluently, while it would be exceedingly long to create a single character model or program the basic controls.
  • He didn't explicitly state what tasks. He only gave an example, which I have put in.
• "which is the amount developer Naughty Dog used for the in-game model of Nathan Drake in Uncharted 2: Among Thieves" - relevance?
  • Comparison. At the time, God of War III and Uncharted 2 had some of the best (if not the best) graphics for consoles.
• "Overall game length was estimated" - by whom? Normally I'm cool with the passive voice, but here the agent would be helpful since another total is given immediately after.
  • That was Asmussen.
• "all footage from the trailer "is pulled straight from the game" and all footage is gameplay" - seems redundant; you could merely snip the quote
  • Done.
• "Susan Blakeslee, who voiced two characters in God of War, voiced Gaia; previously voiced by narrator Linda Hunt, she only provided an introductory narration for God of War III" - ???
  • Better?
• "Each composer provided a different aesthetic to the score" - examples would be nice
  • Added a couple of examples.
• Some of the quotes in Reception appear unneeded and like they could easily be paraphrased, e.g. "so easy to switch between them on the fly", "couldn't be simpler", "its most outstanding visual achievement."
  • I sometimes have a hard time paraphrasing some things because I don't know how I would say it any differently. Tried to at least get the ones you mentioned here.
• Not sure GiantBomb is a reliable source for release dates; doesn't it accept user-inputted data?
  • According to WP:VG/RS, it's "Reliable for reviews and news content submitted in the site's blog by the site's own editorial staff. Do not use the user contributed content from the site's article/database section for citations." I don't know if the contents of that particular citation is user submitted.
• Is Sumthing.com a reliable source?
  • I can't say for sure. It's there to show that they also a label for the soundtrack.
• Per reference convention established on this article, Gamestyle should be used as work, not publisher; it looks like there might not be a true publisher.
  • Done.

That should be about it. Tezero (talk) 22:20, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Support, then. I don't think the GiantBomb issue is worthy of concern; if it's determined unreliable at some point, release dates for games from the early/mid-'00s or later are easy to find via press releases, ratings websites, etc. Tezero (talk) 18:55, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

• Thank you. --JDC808 ♫ 19:33, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Comments from Mike Christie

Resolved issues

I'm not a gamer so please excuse any mistakes; and if I screw up anything in a copyedit feel free to revert. "a search for Pandora (the key to Pandora's box)": not sure what this means -- Pandora and the key to her box are different things. Does Kratos have to find both Pandora and the key, separately? Pandora is the key. In this game, she's an artificial being that was created solely to be sacrificed to open the box. There are two problems with the way it's currently phrased: the mythological Pandora is what most readers will think of and you can't say "key to a box" without people thinking of a literal key. How about "Kratos battles monsters, gods, and Titans in a search for Pandora, without whom he cannot open Pandora's box, defeat Zeus and end the reign of the Olympian Gods"? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:31, 17 February 2015 (UTC) Done. --JDC808 ♫ 03:36, 17 February 2015 (UTC) "such as the Guitar Hero-esque puzzle": the reader has no other information about this puzzle so I don't think you can say "the"; it would have to be "a". I think a little more information is needed though, unless the puzzle really does consist of Kratos picking up a guitar and synching to a heavy metal track. Changed to "a", and as to the second point, kind of. There's these giant things he has to move that strum strings, and you (as the player) have to hit the buttons in time just like in the Guitar Hero games (and doing it correctly plays main God of War theme). "Kratos' main weapon is the Blades of Exile (initially the Blades of Athena)": does this mean that early in the game the weapon was called the Blades of Athena? Or in earlier installments of the game? Both. It's further explained in the Plot section. It's technically a different weapon, but for someone with less knowledge, it's basically the same weapon, just with a cosmetic difference and different attack combinations. How about "Kratos' main weapon is the Blades of Exile, which replace the Blades of Athena that he used in the game's previous installments"? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:31, 17 February 2015 (UTC) Made it "Kratos' main weapon is the Blades of Exile, replacing the Blades of Athena used in previous installments and the opening moments of this game." --JDC808 ♫ 03:36, 17 February 2015 (UTC) I'm not a video game player so this may be a dumb question: in "moving the right analog stick as shown by the orange arrow" is it actually the right stick? I ask because it's the character's left arm, not right arm. Yes, it is the right analog stick. "fist gauntlet": I would have expected just "gauntlet" -- or is a "fist gauntlet" a specialized term? Fixed. I don't know why we put that redundancy. "who was banished when Kratos retrieved Pandora's Box from Pandora's Temple of which is still chained to his back": looks like "of" is left over from a previous version of the sentence, and I'd make this "still chained to Cronos's back" to clarify who "his" refers to. Okay. The "of" was just to try and clarify that it was the temple that's chained to his back. Out of curiosity, despite the "of", did you understand that it was the temple that's chained to his back? I did not understand that, and we should clarify that in the article -- you mean he has a building chained to his back? I'm guessing that this is chained to Cronos's back, not Kratos's back; I only just realized that. Before suggesting a rewrite of that sentence, can you clarify it a bit more? It says "Tartarus is the prison of the dead and the Titan Cronos, who was banished when Kratos retrieved Pandora's Box from Pandora's Temple which is still chained to his back". So Cronos is imprisoned in Tartarus, and Cronos was banished -- to Tartarus? And Cronos was banished when Kratos retrieved the box? Because Kratos retrieved the box? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:44, 17 February 2015 (UTC) Yes, he does have a building (temple) chained to his back. As you saw in the video I linked, the Titans are massive. Here's a pic of Cronos in the first game with the temple on his back. Here's one from this game (couldn't quite find a better one). I think I made it clearer. He was banished to Tartarus after (and because) Kratos retrieved the box from the temple. The whole sentence now says "Tartarus is the prison of the dead where the Titan Cronos was banished after Kratos retrieved Pandora's Box from Pandora's Temple (still chained to the Titan's back) in God of War." --JDC808 ♫ 03:36, 17 February 2015 (UTC) That's improved; I tweaked it a bit more -- I don't think "still" is necessary, though I can see it's accurate; in this context it doesn't help the reader understand what's going on. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:41, 17 February 2015 (UTC) "who appear in the psyche sequence": what does this mean? There's a part in the game where the main character (Kratos) blacks out and he has a mental journey through his pysche (explained more towards end of plot). I copyedited this to clarify it. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:44, 17 February 2015 (UTC) "Pandora's Box is in the Flame of Olympus, and is again key to the success of his quest": why "again"? Pandora's Box was the goal to beat the final boss of the first game. I added a couple of words to clarify this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:44, 17 February 2015 (UTC) "the actual ending of God of War III envisioned by game director Stig Asmussen": to me, "actual ending" means the one that was created, and "envisioned by" means the original idea, not necessarily what was created. If this means that the actual ending was Asmussen's idea, I'd reword this; perhaps "the actual ending of God of War III, which was based on game director Stig Asmussen's vision". Okay. Put your suggestion. "the code department would swap out PlayStation 2 stuff with PlayStation 3 stuff": suggest "components" for "stuff" as a bit less informal. Done. "Christer Ericson of SCE Santa Monica Studio wrote on his Twitter page that God of War III has seamless loading; no loading screens and no hard disk drive installation requirement": what does this add to the article? If it's used as a source for there being no loading screens and no hard disk installation requirement I think it doesn't work, for two reasons; first, it's Twitter, which is not a RS for this sort of thing, and second, it appears this was tweeted during development, meaning that it's not a final assessment of the game. I'll have to look into the RS situation, because I believe in some cases, it's acceptable. As to what it adds, he was confirming that the final game would not have those (which it doesn't), as some games do. Let me know if you can find anything in the RS pages that supports this use of Twitter; I don't think it's appropriate, and I think you could cut this with little harm to the article. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:53, 17 February 2015 (UTC) Okay, I made a post on the WP:VG project page asking about this. I went ahead and replaced the twitter source with a Eurogamer one. --JDC808 ♫ 03:36, 17 February 2015 (UTC) WP:VG basically said the twitter post is okay as long as the account does in fact belong to that person. --JDC808 ♫ 00:35, 18 February 2015 (UTC) "reporting improved lighting and motion blur in the final release": I don't understand the reference to motion blur. There was less motion blur? If so, let's make it "reporting improved lighting and reduced motion blur in the final release". They added motion blur. In video games, motion blur makes it more realistic. I see. So how about "reporting improved lighting and realistic motion blur in the final release"? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:53, 17 February 2015 (UTC) Done. --JDC808 ♫ 03:36, 17 February 2015 (UTC) "SCE Santa Monica Studio announced the God of War III Ultimate Edition'": should "the" be deleted? I'm not entirely sure. I understand what you're saying, but usually whenever it's a special edition of games or movies or whatever, it seems there's always a "the". Maybe they're incorrect about it. Just an example, the source for the trilogy edition one says "the God of War III Ultimate Trilogy Edition". Any reason not to name the winner of the ultimate God of War fan contest? I don't believe that source actually says the winner (would have to check), but since the winner isn't a "notable person", I didn't think it was necessary to include the winner. No problem; just thought it could be mentioned if the name was available. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:53, 17 February 2015 (UTC) "On May 4, 2010, it was reported that the site was a teaser and the official website for the second PlayStation Portable title in the series, God of War: Ghost of Sparta": I don't think I follow this. Did spartansstandtall.com initially have one set of content and then change? Also, for non-gamers, saying "the second PlayStation Portable title" is confusing -- not being familiar with the hardware, I didn't realize that this was the next game in the series; I thought it was the second game, meaning it had been released earlier. When people first went to the website, it was basically just a torrential rain animation with a timer. Then on May 4, the full website became available. As to the "second game" issue, is it clearer now? OK, I understand what you mean now. But you don't have a source for the date you give, as far as I can tell, and the website is now the website for Ascension, so I think you need a source to indicate that for a while it was the official website for Ghost of Sparta. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:21, 17 February 2015 (UTC) Okay, a source is there now. --JDC808 ♫ 03:36, 17 February 2015 (UTC) That's improved, but I'd cut the parenthetical "(at the time)", or if you happen to know when it stopped being the game's website, give that date too. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:41, 17 February 2015 (UTC) Okay. I'm not sure when it stopped. I'll try and see if there's any articles that make note of when it stopped. --JDC808 ♫ 00:35, 18 February 2015 (UTC) "praising the way the Titans are larger than entire levels in other games": I don't understand this. The Titans are characters, not levels; or does this mean that defeating a Titan is considered a level in the game? More along the lines of your second question. There are parts in the game where Kratos is traversing like the arms of a Titan, or even going inside of one. Might be easier to see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBk_Pzkui5Y at about the 2:45 mark. Very helpful. How about "IGN's Chris Roper said that God of War III "practically redefines" scale in video games, singling out the size of the Titans, which are "larger than entire levels in other games", for special mention? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:21, 17 February 2015 (UTC) Done. --JDC808 ♫ 03:36, 17 February 2015 (UTC) I don't think you can say "universal critical acclaim" if you later say the plot had mixed reviews. You're not the first who has questioned this. Games are universal acclaim if they have an aggregate score of 90-100 (movies, TV, and music are 81-100) as calculated by Metacritic. Here's where it shows that (http://www.metacritic.com/about-metascores), just scroll down a little bit. --JDC808 ♫ 22:34, 15 February 2015 (UTC) OK, but you still can't say it received universal critical acclaim -- it didn't. What it received was a Metacritic score that is described by Metacritic as "universal critical acclaim", which is a different thing altogether. I'd suggest cutting the sentence altogether and starting with Adam Sessler's comments; you have the Metacritic score in the box on the right. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:26, 17 February 2015 (UTC) I've made the first sentence say "God of War III received universal critical acclaim as calculated by review aggregator Metacritic, receiving a score of 92 out of 100." --JDC808 ♫ 03:36, 17 February 2015 (UTC) Sorry, I don't think that does it (and I realized this is in the lead as well as the first section). We can't have text that says the game received universal critical acclaim; if we're going to use that phrase, it would have to be something like "the game received a Metacritic score described by Metacritic as universal critical acclaim", which I don't think is worth including. It's fine to include the Metacritic score, and it's fine to make it clear that that's a very high score, but the reader shouldn't be under the impression that it was universally praised. I would assume that most video gamers know very well what the phrase "universal critical acclaim" means in the context of a Metacritic score, but many readers won't be gamers so the text has to work for them too. I'd suggest cutting it completely, or if it's truly notable that the score was 92, find a source that says that, and write it that way without using the phrase. If you really feel you have to use the phrase in the article text it has to be crystal clear it's just Metacritic's internal name for the score range, which is why I don't think it's worth mentioning. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:41, 17 February 2015 (UTC) I've made a post at WP:VG regarding this because I know there are other video game articles that also have this and I'm going to see how they resolved this issue.--JDC808 ♫ 00:35, 18 February 2015 (UTC) After getting responses from WP:VG and being linked to a large discussion of the same issue, they basically just said to drop "universal" and if I include "universal", state its Metacritic who says that. So "universal" was dropped, but made note that Metacritic describes their score as "universal acclaim". --JDC808 ♫ 01:05, 18 February 2015 (UTC) OK, I'm done with a first pass. After we deal with these I will do another copyedit pass. Haven't yet looked at the sources. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:41, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Everything from my first pass through has been resolved; I'll do another read through and if I find anything else I'll post it here. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:19, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Please fix my copyedits as needed. More points:

• "In creating Kratos, art director Ken Feldman said "We [used] as many [polygons] as it [took]." The raw polygon count is considerably lower than 35,000, which is the amount developer Naughty Dog used for the in-game model of Nathan Drake in Uncharted 2: Among Thieves. Kratos' PlayStation 2 (PS2) character model was about 5,000 polygons; his PS3 model is about 20,000." Looking at some of the sources, it appears Nathan Drake is mentioned because he has quite a few more polygons than Kratos, but there seem to be other models with more polygons out there. I know Feldman mentions Drake, but it's a distraction here. How about rewording these sentences like so: "The character model for Kratos in the Playstation 2 (PS2) games used about 5,000 polygons; the PS3 model was about 20,000 – a high number, but less than the number used by models in other games. Ken Feldman, the art director, commented that the polygon count was not the only factor, and cited the increased texture detail as one of the reasons for Kratos's realistic appearance", using the same source you're using.
  • Okay, implemented your suggestion. A big reason Drake was referenced in that article was because Uncharted 2 and this game at that time had the best graphics for video game consoles. Games since then (especially with the new generation) have higher counts, but at that time (and I may be wrong) I think Drake was the only character model with a higher count (at least for video game consoles, not sure about PC). --JDC808 ♫ 03:13, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

    That explains why Feldman mentioned it, but without a source to give those details it's not really possible to explain that to a reader, and even with a source I think it's a bit of a distraction. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 03:25, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

• "The best-selling game on any console, its opening-month sales were 32 percent higher than those of God of War II": what does "best-selling" refer to here -- best-selling ever in total sales Best opening-month sales? And has the record been exceeded since then, or does it still stand?
  • It was the best-selling game of March 2010. --JDC808 ♫ 03:08, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
• "A week before God of War III's release, the developers released "Path to Olympus" on the God of War website, with Kratos' backstory": is "Path to Olympus" a game? Or a film sequence?
  • It's been awhile, but I think it was basically like a comic, and I think there might have been a couple of videos. It's not on their website anymore, unfortunately. The only thing there now is a timeline of events throughout the series. --JDC808 ♫ 03:08, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

    OK. I'm going to support without addressing this, but you might make this 'the developers released Kratos' backstory on the God of War website, under the title "Path of Olympus"', which I think makes it a little clearer. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 03:25, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

    • Implemented your suggestion. --JDC808 ♫ 15:56, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
• "He said the melodic and harmonic development has grown since the first game": I think you should cut this -- it's somewhat self-praise, and since it's not a third party comment I don't think it adds much.
  • Okay. --JDC808 ♫ 03:08, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

I want to go through the reception section one more time; I think it's a little choppy in places. Other than that, this is now in pretty good shape and I expect to be able to support once these points are cleared up. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:11, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Support. I haven't reviewed the sources in detail, nor have I checked for close paraphrasing, but the sources I looked at in passing as part of the review look fine to me. There's a good deal of detail here, but it's handled neutrally and I think it stays on the right side of trivia. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 03:25, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

• Thank you very much. It's good to get a non-gamer perspective. Just to note, FAC #2 and #3 had source reviews, though some new sources have been added since then. --JDC808 ♫ 15:56, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Image check - all OK (GermanJoe)

• Fair-use rationales in general are OK for both images, but File:GoW3_Kratos_vs_Hercules_QTE.jpg fails WP:NFC with over twice the recommended size. If higher resolutions are needed in exceptional cases, "editors should ensure that the image rationale fully explains the need for such a level of detail". See the guideline at WP:IMAGERES for more information. GermanJoe (talk) 05:56, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Last time these images were checked during an FAC, there were only minor issues that were easily resolved. Now one's being opposed? Regardless, that one's size has been reduced. --JDC808 ♫ 17:41, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
    • Don't know why, but maybe the reviewer overlooked the image size issue, sometimes reviews in good faith simply miss a problem. Please check the complete linked guidelines regarding non-free image quality (not only quantity). Sorry for bringing this point up quite late in the review, but I just noticed it today.
    • Thanks for resizing the image - all OK now (changed in header above). On a sidenote: the image size in pixels was too high, but you could still use a slightly larger image if you want (the quality limit is based on pixel count up to circa 100,000 pixels for the whole image. The current version has 57,600 pixels). WP:IMAGERES has details, how to calculate that. GermanJoe (talk) 18:29, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

• Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Ian Rose (talk) 02:17, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.