- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Sarastro1 via FACBot (talk) 23:37, 10 March 2017 .
- Nominator(s): Aoba47 (talk) 01:46, 6 February 2017 (UTC)
Hello everyone, this article is about a fictional character on the American soap opera Passions, who was featured prominently throughout its entire run on NBC from 1999 to 2007 and on DirecTV in 2007–08. Introduced as the seemingly perfect wife and mother, Eve's storylines revolve around her past alcohol and drug abuse while working as a nightclub singer and her past relationship and child with businessman Julian Crane.
Tracey Ross, who played Eve for the series' entire run, has discussed the casting process and her interpretation and influences when acting out the role. Ross' casting was part of NBC's attempt to include a racially diverse ensemble on daytime television. Ross' performance was praised by fans and critics, with the character's relationship with Julian receiving positive attention. The character's storylines were negatively received by the cast, specifically the scenes in which Vincent Clarkson gives birth to his father's child and Eve incorrectly attaches Julian's penis during a botched surgery.
Despite these mixed reactions, Ross received eight nominations for the NAACP Image Award for Outstanding Actress in a Daytime Drama Series, winning at the 38th NAACP Image Awards. This is my third nomination of a Passions-related article through the FAC process; the other two were Chad Harris-Crane and the Russell family (Passions). I look forward to receiving everyone's feedback. Thank you in advance! Aoba47 (talk) 01:46, 6 February 2017 (UTC)
- Hopefuly I'll be able to offer additional and more helpful comments in the future (sorry)... Shouldn't the information regarding her appearence in Providence be included under the "Appearances" section? Besides that the article is very well written and broad in its coverage of the character, dare I say even moreso than Chad's article. I'd definately support its promotion to featured article. --PanagiotisZois (talk) 18:10, 6 February 2017 (UTC)
- @PanagiotisZois: Thank you for your support and comments. I completely agree with you and I have moved the "Other appearances and merchandise" subsection to the "Appearances" section. This is actually the article that I am the most proud of so I greatly appreciate the kind words. Hope to work with you further in the future! Aoba47 (talk) 18:19, 6 February 2017 (UTC)
Not my usual area, so I can't comment on sourcing or comprehensiveness, just nit-picking over what appears to be a very solid article Jimfbleak - talk to me? 14:57, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
- "Harmony" presumably a town? Real or fictional? In either case, do we know where in the US it's supposed to be?
- Good point. I have added the phrase "the fictional Northeastern town" in the lead, but let me know if you feel that it requires further clarification in the body of the article as well. I have WikiLinked Northeastern to make that part absolutely clear for a more global audience. We do not know the exact state in which the town is supposed to be located (though it could be somewhat guessed by the two death penalty cases that were prominently featured on the show, but an exact state is never provided outside of somewhere in the New England). Aoba47 (talk) 15:32, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
- "better understand" twice in one sentence
- Oops, fixed this. Aoba47 (talk) 15:32, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
- "born on Christmas" reads oddly to me, as a Brit I'd expect "Christmas Day", but if it's standard US, fine
- I am actually not sure. I have never used the word in this context before (I never knew anyone born on that day lol) so I have changed it for Christmas Day instead. Aoba47 (talk) 15:32, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
- "and an erection might kill him" is this based on fact or is it an alternative fact?
- This is actually a fact fact lol. It was one of the soap opera's final storylines and was referenced as one of the worst ideas by one of its cast members (and I have to agree with her on that one lol). Aoba47 (talk) 15:32, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
@Jimfbleak: Thank you for your comments. I greatly appreciate your feedback, especially on something outside of your usual area of interest. Let me know if there is anything else that needs attention and I look forward to hopefully working with you more in the future. Aoba47 (talk) 15:32, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
- I'm happy with your responses, and happy to support above, an interesting read Jimfbleak - talk to me? 16:35, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
- Thank you! Aoba47 (talk) 16:41, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
- (easy) image review. Only image has appropriate FU tag Jimfbleak - talk to me? 07:40, 12 February 2017 (UTC)
- Thank you! Aoba47 (talk) 14:01, 12 February 2017 (UTC)
The article looks in a really good shape to become FA but there some things that bugged while reading it:
- Can "Ross initially saw the character as easy to play ("everyone's best friend, and the town doctor, and a great mother")" simply be changed to "Ross initially saw the character as easy to play stating it she is "everyone's best friend, and the town doctor, and a great mother"). Otherwise the quotes feel pointless if they are hidden. There is another example in the cast response section.
- Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 21:19, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
- Remember each citation needs wikilinks if they are possible. (Reference 18 for example "TVGuideOnline Interview with Tracey Ross". TV Guide Online. CBS Interactive. October 2003.")
- I think that I have everything covered now. Let me know if there are any others that require WikiLinks. I am fairly certain that the only ones left are those without a Wikipedia article. Aoba47 (talk) 21:19, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
I'll give my support if these issues are solved Good work.Tintor2 (talk) 20:58, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
- @Tintor2: Thank you for your help! I believe that I have covered both of your comments, but let me know if there is anything else that I can do. Aoba47 (talk) 21:19, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
- Seems better. I'll give my support. Good work with the article.Tintor2 (talk) 21:37, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
- Thank you! Aoba47 (talk) 21:44, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
All the sources are archived and apparently reliable. However, I am confused with refs 12 and 13 "Sloane Gaylin, Alison (February 21, 2000). "Tracey Ross goes One on One". NBC Passions Online. "Ben Masters and Tracey Ross "Passions"". NBC Live. April 11, 2000." Can these citations be given some links? Just doing that, I'll support it.Tintor2 (talk) 23:27, 22 February 2017 (UTC)
- @Tintor2: Thank you for the source review. Unfortunately, both sources are no longer accessible directly from the source as they were mostly likely removed a long time ago. I have found both interviews through a fan site here and here and have cited them directly. I could remove both if you feel that it is necessary as they are relatively minor. Just for clarity, I have also used the NBC Live source in the Russell family (Passions) article. I hope this response is helpful and I look forward to your response. Thank you again!
- All right, it passes. Good work.Tintor2 (talk) 01:17, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
- @Tintor2: Thank you for your help and I apologize for any inconvenience. Feel free to let me know if you need any help with anything anytime. Have a wonderful rest of your day. Aoba47 (talk) 01:19, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
@Ian Rose: @Laser brain: @Sarastro1: Just want to notifiy the FAC coordinators that this FAC has received three "support" votes and image and source reviews. Aoba47 (talk) 01:24, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
Coordinator note: I think I'd like to see just a little more commentary on this before promotion. I'd also like a little commentary on comprehensiveness and source reliability. Sarastro1 (talk) 00:01, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
- Sounds good to me; thank you for the message. Aoba47 (talk) 00:58, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
- In response to Aoba's message at my talk page, I'm happy to recuse from coord duties to go through this one. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:35, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
- Thank you! Aoba47 (talk) 14:48, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
- Comments from 1989
- Support Article looks good, I don't have any issues to address. MCMLXXXIX 20:07, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Thank you! Aoba47 (talk) 20:09, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- NBC needs linking in ref 16. Also, what is this reference? A newspaper article? A long lost webpage from 2000?
- Corrected. Also changed NBC from "work" to "publisher" in the same section. It is referencing a long lost webpage from 2000; I have attempted to locate a link through archiving, but unfortunately, I cannot not find anything. Aoba47 (talk) 20:44, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
- I've checked all the sources and they appear reliable—TheTruthAboutNursing's "about us" page gives me confidence that they're a RS
- Thank you for checking! Aoba47 (talk) 20:44, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
- Does African American need a hyphen?
- Removed second link. Also removed the link for Vincent as he was already linked the previous section. Aoba47 (talk) 20:44, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
- "However, Ross appreciated Eve's characterization as a human being who "is neither all good nor all bad, [who] has strengths and weaknesses"" - I think this quote can be paraphrased easily
- Very true; I am go overboard with quotes a lot of the time so thank you for pointing this out. Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 20:44, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
Other than that, I couldn't find anything wrong with the sources or actual content, so I'll support this. I also done some fact checking and everything appears to be in order, so the above points are very minor. I'd say it meets 1b of the FA criteria as it neglects no major facts, bearing in mind it's about a fictional character. Well done! JAGUAR 19:27, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Jaguar: Thank you for your comments and your support! I have addressed your comments above. I look forward to working with you in the future. Aoba47 (talk) 20:44, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
Recusing, per note above, I copyedited as I reviewed so pls let me know any concerns there (FTR I've never seen this show so hopefully come to the subject with no preconceived ideas); outstanding points:
- "Eve was played by Tracey Ross for the series' entire run. In 2003, Amanda Maiden and Kimberly Kevon Williams played Eve in flashbacks." -- The second sentence pulled me up short as it begs the question why, if Ross played Eve the entire run, two others played the character in flashbacks; even if it's explained in the main body it just seems confusing here so I'd drop it.
- Removed. I added that in originally just to be as comprehensive as possible to who played the character. Aoba47 (talk) 12:13, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Okay, that takes care of the lead but I notice that in the main body this isn't explained either. As someone who doesn't know the show I'm struggling to understand why even one actress -- let alone two -- need to portray Eve in flashbacks when Ross was available the whole time. Did the flashbacks portray Eve at a much younger age or something? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 06:05, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
- I have removed this from the main body of the article. The flashbacks portray Eve at a much younger age in flashbacks to her childhood and her time as a nightclub singer. Aoba47 (talk) 15:44, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
- Heh, I didn't mean for you to remove this -- I think it's important to mention all actresses who portrayed the character -- I just felt we needed more information so readers don't have to guess (as I had to) why other actresses portrayed her when Ross was around for the entire show. I suggest you reinstate the text in the main body (I still don't think you really need it in the lead) along the lines of "In 2003, actresses Amanda Maiden and Kimberly Kevon Williams played the character in flashbacks to her childhood and her time as a nightclub singer." Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:17, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
- Thank you for the clarification, and I apologize for my misunderstanding. I have restored the information in the lead and in the body of the article. Aoba47 (talk) 14:48, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
- "Ross played the role from the series debut to its finale on August 7, 2008." -- If you specify the end date, perhaps you should do the same for the debut date.
- "Eve's willingness to "take any sacrifices you might be willing to make" an example of Rand's ideology" -- Actually the article doesn't say Eve "takes" sacrifices, but that she "makes" sacrifices and others will take those sacrifices. Also, since sacrifice is something Rand speaks against (and I believe that's evident from the source article) it's misleading to suggest this is an example of Randian "ideology". For now, I'd suggest that if you want to use a quote, use the whole statement "She’s always willing to make sacrifices, and there’s always somebody willing, as Ayn Rand said, to take any sacrifices you might be willing to make." and drop "an example of Rand's ideology".
- Makes sense. I know absolutely nothing about Ayn Rand's ideology; I have only read Anthem and that was in middle school or high school. I have attempted to revise this, but let me know if it needs more work. Aoba47 (talk) 12:13, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Further on, "Ross identified Eve as "a self-sacrificing animal", who mirrored Rand's beliefs, and the actress emphasized that her character was distinct from her own self-identification as an individualist" -- Per the article, the first and last parts of this statement are accurate but it's misleading to say that this mirrors Rand's beliefs, rather it was a concept she discussed (negatively) in her writing such as The Fountainhead. I think it's simplest to just render this sentence as "Ross described Eve as "a self-sacrificing animal", and emphasized that her character was distinct from her own self-identification as an individualist", losing "who mirrored Rand's beliefs" and also avoiding the "identified/identification" repetition.
- "Early in the show, the actress based her understanding of Eve on the character's relationships with Grace and Ivy Winthrop." -- Can't quite put my finger on it but this reads oddly to me, I'd be interested to know just how the (offline) source puts it.
- That is more of a topic sentence as the information in the paragraph deals with how Ross constructed her approach to the character from her relationships with Grace and Ivy Winthrop. Hope that makes sense. I am not sure on how to change it though, but I am more than happy to take corrections and ideas for revision. I can also remove it completely if you think that it is not necessary. Aoba47 (talk) 12:13, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- "Following Ulrich's interpretation of Ivy as valuing Eve as a confidant..." -- Ditto.
- The quote from the source is this: "Kim says that Ivy really likes Eve. I’m trying to think if Eve really likes Ivy. I think she admires Ivy’s guts. So far, Ivy is the closest thing Eve has had to a confidant…she knows everything about Eve. I think Eve could like Ivy but Ivy’s been pretty horrible to Eve. It would almost make Eve a masochist to like someone who’s been so brutal to her in so many ways. So I wouldn’t say “like”…but I think there are things she admires and respects, like her ability to take-charge. Eve is always tiptoeing around and walking on eggshells." which is Tracey Ross' response to this question: "Do you think Eve and Ivy really like each other?". I have revised this slightly, but I can change it further if necessary. Aoba47 (talk) 12:13, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Okay, I've got an idea for rewording this a bit but first, something else leaps out... Who is "Ulrich"? I searched the article and can't find another mention of them... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 06:05, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
- Oops, thank you for the clarification. I have revised this to be clearer. Aoba47 (talk) 15:44, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
- As a general comment I think we could reduce the reliance on quotes in the article but suggest we work on the specifics I've mentioned and come back to that afterwards.
- Sounds good to me. That is one of my biggest weaknesses is relying too much on quotes. Aoba47 (talk) 12:13, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Also I think based on what I believe are some honest misinterpretations of the source re. the Rand influence, could I ask you to double-check the whole article to ensure other sources are being used accurately, and when that's done I'll spotcheck a few?
- Everything should be in order. I apologize for the previous misinterpretations. Aoba47 (talk) 12:13, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- No apology necessary -- it's always a pleasure working with someone so receptive to constructive criticism... :-) Cheers, 06:08, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
Tks/cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 03:58, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- P.S. Do any of your sources use the expression "jumped the shark" when referring to the botched reattachment storyline,'cos that's certainly what came to my mind when reading about it... ;-) Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 04:01, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Ian Rose: Thank you for your comments so far and I look forward to working on this further! There were plenty of "jump the shark" moments that happened during the end of this show (even by its standards) lol. Aoba47 (talk) 12:13, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Ian Rose: Thank you again for your comments. I have responded to both of your questions. Let me know if there is anything else that I can do to improve the article. Aoba47 (talk) 15:44, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
Coordinator note: Ian are you happy with the responses to your points? If so, I think we are good to go. Sarastro1 (talk) 22:23, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
- Sorry, been spread a little thin the last few days -- aside from what I've added above, I might just do a few spotchecks as I said I would, and if all goes well we should be done then. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:17, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
- Okay, I've spotchecked FNs 8, 9 and 14 and although I tweaked/trimmed a bit of the article after reading them (incidentally reducing the quotes a little, as I also suggested in my initial review) I don't have any special concerns with accuracy or close paraphrasing -- happy to support once the bit about the other actresses is restored/clarified. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:59, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Ian Rose: Thank you for your help; your edits have improve the article a great deal. I have added in the information about the other actresses who have portrayed the role. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day. Aoba47 (talk) 14:48, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Sarastro1: Just pinging you to let you know that Ian has responded to my comments. Aoba47 (talk) 19:49, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
- Thanks. I'm afraid it will be tomorrow at the earliest before I have a chance to go through the list again. Sarastro1 (talk) 23:48, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
- No worries! Take as long as you need. Hope you have a wonderful rest of your day. Aoba47 (talk) 01:07, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Sarastro1: Hello again. I apologize for the intrusion. Just wanted to check in on the progress with this. Aoba47 (talk) 17:06, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
- RL has been insane this week, sorry! I hope to do a pass at FAC tonight (i.e. in a few hours) Sarastro1 (talk) 17:12, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
- No worries. Thank you for your response. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing anything. Hope your week becomes less insane for you soon! Aoba47 (talk) 17:20, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.