User talk:SusanLesch/Archives/2018/June

Niacin dietary recommendations

Thanks for doing this for niacin, copying the table style I started for vitamin D. I wanted to have the data listed down the side, without big blocks interrupting the flow of text -- as it is rather dry, especially where different countries vary only slightly. Maybe you could stack them as we did for vitamin D. Also @David notMD: is trying to get a more uniform order in nutrient articles. I think dietary or other recommendations should come early but see vitamin C for his structure. Jrfw51 (talk) 10:10, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

SusanLesch - I have started a discussion at Niacin on how to best address presenting dietary recommendations when there is disagreement among countries. David notMD (talk) 13:19, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi, Jrfw51 and David notMD. Thank you for responding to my edit summary's cry for help. I will try to send you a proper response by today after noon US Pacific time. -SusanLesch (talk) 14:47, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

My bias is toward a narrative that is not daunting to a non-scientist reader, yet makes clear that countries are not necessarily in agreement on recommended intakes or upper limits. I feel that multiple tables is too much. I will point out that the content for Vitamin D is closer to what you have created for niacin, albeit stacked vertically rather then across page. David notMD (talk) 15:05, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi, David notMD and Jrfw51.

• First, I read the GA2 discussion for vitamin C. Well done, David, and congratulations on GA! Sorry I hadn't realized that was going on. Second, I agree that Wikipedia's audience is primarily non-scientists. Third, the tables were indeed getting out of hand.
• Two proposals for you gentlemen. 1) Can you see a WikiProject Nutrition? 2) Can you see an Infobox nutrient? An RDA/UL chart could be part of the bottom.
• I'm guessing a bit here, but think all the vitamins and minerals on the WHO Model List of Essential Medicines are in infoboxes for drugs, which is potentially a mistake. (Niacin is in a chembox.) We can create an infobox nutrient that is compatible with WHO's medicines and the other WikiProjects. I feel the essential nutrients deserve a little better treatment than they have now.
• My bias: I believe that with a few exceptions people should get their nutrients from food and not from dietary supplements. I have a COI when my professors are involved in the literature. -SusanLesch (talk) 19:21, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

My COI is that, as stated on my User page and several article Talk pages, I am a science consultant to dietary supplement companies. None of my clients have ever asked me to edit Wikipedia and none (to my knowledge) know that I am an editor. I think if we all tread carefully - and transparently - we can keep this to the benefit of Wikipedia. I'd like to hear from Doc James on this, though. David notMD (talk) 20:26, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

I could see both of these proposals being beneficial but would have little time to work on them myself. Jrfw51 (talk) 20:41, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, waiting for Doc James to get back online. David, it sounds like we balanced out our biases.😃 -SusanLesch (talk) 23:33, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

I am sort of here. What do you propose the "infobox nutrition" would contain? The essential nutrients are often both important dietary components as well as important medicines. Chemicals are a broader category.

The RDA are fairly technical and as such IMO belong lower in the article. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 14:09, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

@Doc James: can you please tell me why iron is not on the WHO list of essential medicines? Also do you know why iron and zinc, for example, have custom infoboxes? I guess we are talking about a maximum of about 80 articles. Something like water or dietary fiber doesn't have any infobox. Protein and lipid are both GAs and without infoboxes. Looking quickly, every vitamin source I have gives the following information on each. Among those, Infobox drug already has metabolism, excretion, synonyms, bioavailability.

• scientific and common names
• dietary sources
• digestion, absorption and inhibitors, transport, storage
• metabolism, excretion
• function or role
• assessment of nutriture
• deficiency and toxicity symptoms/diseases
• prevalence of each
• RDA/RDI/UL

It also may be that existing infoboxes could simply add a field for "essential nutrient". -SusanLesch (talk) 17:20, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

• • Ferrous salt is on the WHO list. The special infoboxes are for elements. We could add a number of these to the "infobox drug" which would be easier than creating a new infobox. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:49, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you. Every element has its own box, as it should be. We're only humans making use of them, probably temporarily. -SusanLesch (talk) 18:55, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

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