User talk:Stfg/Archive 7

Apparently Great Minds Do Indeed Think Alike

		The Teamwork Barnstar
		On behalf of the entire Wikipedia Community, this award is hereby presented jointly to the team of Stfg, Diannaa, Torchiest, and Allens for their hard work and superb cooperation in planning and executing the highly successful July 2012 Wikipedia Backlog Reduction Drive for the Guild of Copy Editors. With very best regards: Cliff (a/k/a "Uploadvirus") (talk) 13:07, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Cliff, and please consider yourself part of that list on account of your recent help. Simon. --Stfg (talk) 14:38, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

List of Indian Premier League centuries

I know that you don't accept direct requests, but It will be great help if you can copyedit List of Indian Premier League centuries. Its currently a FLC and some guys have recommended a quick copyedit. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^{Talk Email} 15:47, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, Vaibhav, but I really don't. I accepted one once and the next person to make a request obviously resented my saying no. You need to get your copy edits done before you nominate. --Stfg (talk) 15:57, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

No prob. :) I thought of getting a copyedit, but you also know about the backlog of GOCE. Nevetheless, I am requesting it at the requests page. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^{Talk Email} 16:06, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
	Thank you for copy-editing Missing My Baby! It is very appreciative that you enjoy helping out others in need. Thanks for being so kind. Best, Jonatalk to me 17:01, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for saying so, Jona. I was glad to help. Good luck with the FAC (I have it watchlisted in case anything comes up). --Stfg (talk) 17:29, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

September drive

I saw you created a new page. Are we good to go on the new sign-up procedure? I can add it in if you're okay with the way it works now. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 14:50, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, good to go. I thought it a good idea to draft the skeleton and then ask you to insert your magic there. Finally, we'll ask Allen and Dianna if they are happy before we launch it. Let's leave the under construction template in place till all four of us are happy.

Please feel free to adjust the order of sections however you judge suitable. My section order is arbitrary, just to get things off the ground. I think that any transclusions should be of things in GOCE Project space rather than your user space, for example Template:GOCE Article list rather than User:Torchiest/GOCE/Totals. Please feel free to hijack the templates {{GOCEtotals}} and {{GOCEusertotals}} for new uses if you like the names. I created them for the old system and they won't be needed any more. (Otherwise I'll ask Dianna to delete them eventually).

One last issue: our drive pages up to now have ended with [[Category:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors]]. Does that still work now that the new system appends things?

It's all yours! --Stfg (talk) 15:14, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I was planning on creating some new project space templates, but I can just move my user pages there, just so we have the option of reverting to the old system if this turns out to be a disaster. :) I'm not sure about the category issue; it could be problematic. I'll do a little more testing before moving it in and see what happens. If that is an issue, we could probably move the category up higher into the page I think. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 15:21, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

I think so too, but if not, I reckon we can do without the category. It isn't worth losing the sign-up system for. --Stfg (talk) 15:23, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

I moved the category to the top of the page, and moved all the necessary pieces into GOCE project space. I added myself, and it's looking good! I also added a link to the July drive's barnstars page, so people can get their rollover numbers from that. The link shows up in the instructions when you click the button to add yourself. Let me know if you think it needs any more modifications. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 16:07, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

It works a dream! No more mods needed. I'll ask Allen and Dianna to take a look now, then we can take the banners off and go live. Thanks very much for this improvement! --Stfg (talk) 16:38, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Excellent, glad to be of service, and yes, I was thinking we could remove the "under the hood" details from the barnstars page. Perhaps in the future we could create a separate rollover words page? —Torchiest ^talk_edits 16:41, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

What a great idea! How's this? Feel free to tweak it. --Stfg (talk) 17:11, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Should be fine just like that. I updated the links. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 17:22, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

I've just added something to the Totals section which we had in July. If people follow that format, it's easier for Allen's barnstars program. As ever, please edit and relocate the new stuff in any way you want. --Stfg (talk) 21:13, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I saw this yesterday and it looks fine. I think we're ready to go live. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 11:53, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

lola kenya screen (3)

Thanks for copy-editing the article; I have provided the clarification you requested. Please have a look and advise accordingly. I still do not know how to add images (pictures), articles and memos of incorporation, blue prints, tool kits and brochures to the article. How do I do this? How do I add pictures? Thanks, once again, for assisting here. § Lolana Lolana (talk) 11:19, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

OK. There's something I've promised to do first, then I'll come back to it. Maybe Tuesday or Wednesday. For adding pictures, as I said before, you need to look at Help:Contents/Images and media, which links to information about this, and use the upload wizard, which is here. I can't really see how to make it clearer than this. --Stfg (talk) 16:05, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

I've had a look now, and the clarifications are good. I've removed the "clarify" and "expand abbreviation" tags. In future, if you resolve such tags, it's OK to remove them yourself if you like.

In the case of articles and memos of incorporation, blue prints, tool kits and brochures, what is it that you want to add to the article? Do you mean that these things exist elsewhere and that you want to reference them from the article, or do you mean that you want to add the actual documents? I think that things like this belong on the enterprise's own web site (lolakenyascreen.org), which is already linked form the "External links" section of the article. Please can you clarify what it is that you want to do? --Stfg (talk) 11:24, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Lolana, please add your comments in this section, not to the very bottom of this page, as that disrupts my discussions with other editors. Here is what you said:

(←) I have added three more references to support the focus on 'films in eastern Africa', but I didn't remove the reference (it was no17) that you said didn't contain the information though it does; it is now number 20. What I meant by adding references from articles and memos of association and blue prints was much in the same way we add verifiable links to articles. However, these other documents--brochures, blue prints, memos--aren't online and therefore cannot be linked to articles. But the article is reading well now. Thanks for copy-editing it. § Lolana Lolana (talk) 20:07, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for the explanation of how to link to documents even if they aren't online. That's quite helpful. I have removed the Wanted in Africa link that was misleading. Oerhaps you could look at the query and see if it has been addressed adequately. I shall continue to work on articles on Wikipedia, not necessarily on those on film. I am learning quite a lot. § Lolana Lolana (talk) 15:41, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome. Good luck. --Stfg (talk) 15:48, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

GOCE

Quick question why does every tranche have 4 or 5 assistant coordinators and this one only have 2? Obtund^Talk 01:01, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

The first tranche actually started with three. Two more were coopted -- that was before my time and I don't know the reason. The second tranche had three. Although there were four at the start of last term, for most of it Dianna and I were the only active coordinators, and we weren't particularly stretched. So it was decided that this number was enough to get the job done at current levels. We still have the option to coopt if we want to. Regards, --Stfg (talk) 09:22, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Two coordinators were co-opted last year because another one had to resign due to real life concerns. I'm not sure why they did two instead of just one though. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 14:03, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Well shouldn't you guys add one or two more corrdinators? Obtund^Talk 14:06, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Like Stfg said, we haven't been stretched too thin with the number we've had, so there's really no need. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 14:11, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Well anyways we still need to recruit more people for the GOCE. Obtund^Talk 14:43, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Baffle gab1978

He has been doing exceptional service for a really long time, I was wondering if you feel that it is appropriate for me to give him the GOCE award. Obtund^Talk 04:17, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

He sure has, and it's certainly good to recognise that. The GOCE award, in the form shown on the GOCE barstars page, gives the impression of being awarded officially, and for the moment, anything you do should be in a personal capacity. I would recommend using something like {{The Copyeditor's Barnstar}}, which allows you to personalise the message in any way you choose. --Stfg (talk) 10:46, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

GOCE news and September drive invitation

Invitation from the Guild of Copy Editors The Guild of Copy Editors invites you to participate in its events: The August 2012 Copy Edit of the Month Contest is currently in the submissions stage. Submit your best August copy edit there before the end of the month. Submissions end, and discussion and voting begin, on September 1 at 00:00 (UTC). September 2012 Backlog elimination drive is a month-long effort to reduce the size of the copy edit backlog. The drive begins on September 1 at 00:00 (UTC) and ends on September 30 at 23:59 (UTC). Our goals are to copy edit the articles tagged longest ago and to complete all requests placed before the end of August. Barnstars will be awarded to anyone who copy edits at least one article, and special awards will be given to the top six in the following categories: "Number of articles", "Number of words", "Number of articles of over 5,000 words", "Number of articles tagged longest ago", and "Longest article". This drive features a much easier signup process. We hope to see you there! – Your drive coordinators: Stfg, Allens, and Torchiest. >>> Sign up now <<< To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list. Delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 19:08, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Semi-human instinctive artificial intelligence

Hi, I changed your speedy to a standard copyvio (Wikipedia:Copyright_problems/2012_August_24). You may well be correct. The pdf lacks a date - it may well be 2006 (as in the url), in which case the article is not recoverable, however there is a bit of conflicting evidence - http://docs.mohammadzadeh.info/Publications/SHIAI/2006/ shows the web file date as 24-Sep-2010 20:04 - that muddies the waters. The web page has not been archived by web archive, so no help there. My guess is that the original author was probably part of the team writing the paper - it would not been exactly easy to find in 2008, and that the file date is a red herring - but for such an old article it's best to get a good agreement.  Ronhjones  ^(Talk) 23:57, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. On yet further investigation, this seems to show that the paper dates from 2006, and here is a 2007 paper citing it. (These are what are shown by a Google Scholar search on thepaper's title). It's no big deal to me, but would you be happy to speedy it now? It would save the copyvio team a moment's effort. Regards, --Stfg (talk) 08:51, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

I've been digging as well. When you get it into a full version of Acrobat, you can read that

• Author: Assad
• Original title: Microsoft Word - SHI-AI--New Version4.doc
• Created: 07/02/2006 01:04:23
• Modified: 07/02/2006 01:04:23
• Copyright Status: Unknown (not been set)

That means it was written in Word by "Assad", and then changed to PDF in 2006, the PDF was not edited at all. Fortunately we don't have to worry about the date format (that's 7th Feb where I live..., but it might be July 2nd...). I think there is too much evidence now to let it stay - if the creator was still active, then I might leave it, as (s)he could arrange for OTRS, but they have long gone. Time for the delete button.  Ronhjones  ^(Talk) 18:32, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Gone. I wonder if anyone will miss it?  Ronhjones  ^(Talk) 18:37, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Mmm, I wonder! Thanks very much for looking after this. --Stfg (talk) 21:41, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

No problem, good hunting...  Ronhjones  ^(Talk) 22:34, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

WP:GOCE August Copy Edit Contest

Thanks for submitting an entry for our inaugural Copy Edit of the Month contest! I've given everyone the same question to help spur discussion. Please answer it when you have a chance. Thanks. —Torchiest talkedits 02:02, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

GOCE September activities

Reminders from the Guild of Copy Editors A quick reminder of our current events: The August 2012 Copy Edit of the Month Contest is in the discussion and voting stage until midnight September 14 (UTC). The September 2012 Copy Edit of the Month Contest is in the submissions stage until midnight September 30 (UTC), when discussion and voting begin. The September 2012 Backlog elimination drive is now underway! The event runs until midnight September 30 (UTC). The goal is to copy edit articles with the oldest tags and complete all requests placed before September. Barnstars will be awarded to anyone who participates, with special awards given to the top five in the following categories: "Total articles", "Total words", "Total articles over 5,000 words", "Total articles tagged longest ago", and "Longest article". – Your drive coordinators: Stfg, Allens, and Torchiest. To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list. Message delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 04:33, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 8

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The patient scribe's award

	The patient scribe's award
	For your consistent efforts in helping, supporting, and encouraging newer copyeditors --Demiurge1000 (talk) 00:05, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

I second this. See talk page. Geraldshields11 (talk) 01:37, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Thank you both very much. You made my day! --Stfg (talk) 08:56, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Diplomacy
	For the humorous use of a militia to solve the cite problem on the Vulnetari article. And for being a great bloke. Geraldshields11 (talk) 01:35, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks again. I have this mental image, now, of a paramilitary GOCE, composed of ordinary citizens, surging forth to bazooka misplaced commas and ghastly misuses of "while"! Onward, citizens! --Stfg (talk) 08:59, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

That is funny because I had an image of a milita of ink-stained editors armed with red pens, who fight the good fight to save humanity from a misplaced preposition. Viva copy editors. Geraldshields11 (talk) 19:09, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

On a more serious note, I will continue to work on the articles. Please review my work as needed. Geraldshields11 (talk) 19:09, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Greeting

Hello Sir, I see you're a fellow Englishman. I've only made a couple of changes to Wikipedia but I noticed you seem to be an editor. Just thought I would say hello. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Renn69 (talk • contribs) 17:39, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Hello Renn69. I hope you enjoy your time on Wikipedia. Regards, --Stfg (talk) 18:35, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

GOCE mid-drive newsletter

Guild of Copy Editors September 2012 backlog elimination drive mid-drive newsletter Participation: Out of 37 people signed up for this drive so far, 19 have copy-edited at least one article, about the same as the last drive. If you've signed up but haven't yet copy-edited any articles, every bit helps; if you haven't signed up yet, it's not too late. Join us! Progress report: We're almost on track to meet our targets for the drive. Great work, guys. We have reduced our target group of articles—August, September, and October 2011—by about 44%, and the overall backlog has been reduced by 58 articles so far, to around 2600 articles. The biggest difference between this drive and the previous one is a stronger focus on large articles, so total word counts are still comparable. Don't forget about the Copy Edit of the Month contests! Voting for the August contest has been extended through the end of the month. You don't have to make a submission to vote! August 2012 Copy Edit of the Month Contest is in the discussion and voting stage until midnight September 30 (UTC). September 2012 Copy Edit of the Month Contest is in the submissions stage until midnight September 30 (UTC), when discussion and voting begin. >>> Sign up now <<< To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list. Newsletter delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 22:22, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

GOCE question

Hello,

I was (very) slowly reviewing the article Hip hop rivalry. I got a word count at this point. During a lull, another editor made some changes that significantly changed the overall workload (lowering it significantly). Should I take the broken out articles and copyedit those as well or try to figure a modified word count? --Nouniquenames 02:55, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

I wouldn't go to the break-out articles, because where does that process stop? I checked Eminem feuds, which that editor created, and the standard of writing seems reasonable. The principle is to count what you have worked on. So if they have removed stuff that you haven't edited yet, best to exclude it, but do of course include anything you edited, even if they have removed it.

However, are you satisfied that the deletions are valid? The new section heading of "Other notable exemples" is ridiculous, and several of the rivalries have not merely been reduced to summary style with a {{main}} at the top, but removed altogether. Is this actually breaking-out, or improper removal of content?

By the way, when I remove {{GOCEinuse}} overnight, I like to replace it with {{under construction}} to signal that work is still going on, with an edit summary like "breaking for now, back tomorrow". It may just help to warn people what's going on. Best, --Stfg (talk) 09:45, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Thank you! --Nouniquenames 17:43, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Yikes! Re: ReConnected

I was attempting a copyedit for ReConnected but it turns out the article is way out of date, with sporadic events that could be from 2010 or 2011. It has a lot of contradictions too, releasing singles and touring, and yet not releasing an single, the infobox says they're retired, another section says they're finishing up school. They had a radio show? What year? No discography exists. I am going to slap it with GOCEreviewed, if that's alright. AngusWOOF (talk) 02:38, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

It's certainly all right, but in this case you've done what was needed for a copy edit, so there was no need. When we copy edit an article, we don't always claim to have solved all its problems of outdated information, questions of when and why as in the tags you added, and so on. Adding tags to request more information, citations and updates is a valid thing to do as part of a copy edit. You've made the article as good as it can be, given the amount of information it contains. You did a good job, so please do take credit for it on the drive page. I've presumed to remove the GOCEreviewed from the talk page, for the reasons just stated. Hope that's OK.

While you're here, please don't bother to write those detailed explanations of what you did with each article on the drive page. We assume good faith, plus we do random checks, from which I already know by now that you're doing the job properly. Cheers, --Stfg (talk) 09:15, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Okay thanks! I'll try to clean it up more and trim out the details on the drive logs. AngusWOOF (talk) 14:02, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

tag:ref

Where is the construct {{#tag:ref ...}} documented, please? It isn't in WP:CITE, and the search box doesn't seem to see the #. Thanks. Stfg (talk) 10:36, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Does this help? (replace the {{t|help me}] template if not) Yunshui 雲‍水 12:27, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes, that's what I needed. Thanks, Yunshui. --Stfg (talk) 12:56, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Teamwork Barnstar
	Dear Andy Mabbett, Stfg, Qworty, • Gene93k, and Xxanthippe, I appreciate all of the efforts and consideration everyone put into the article about Pauline A. Chen. I look forward to working with all of you on different articles. Cheers. Geraldshields11 (talk) 03:24, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Wow, thank you! I don't think I deserved this, but it's appreciated. --Stfg (talk) 08:45, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

2005 Women's Cricket World Cup Final

I guess that I need your help here. :) ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^{Talk Email} 14:29, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

No problem, Vaibhav. I've commented there and will keep it watchlisted to see how it goes. Best, Simon. --Stfg (talk) 14:59, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! :) BTW, could you check this one and tell if this looks good for FA status. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^{Talk Email} 15:09, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm probably not a good judge, but I doubt it. It certainly needs a copy edit ("Morkel bowled him a short ball, which was tried to be pulled by Jadeja" !!). A bigger problem, probably, is that it reads like a detailed ball-by-ball commentary, and almost nobody is going to be interested in so much detail. --Stfg (talk) 16:12, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Okay. BTW could I request you to copy-edit this one after adding it on the requests page, because I guess that you are the bet copy-editors available for cricket topics. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^{Talk Email} 16:18, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, Vaibhav, but if I said yes to that, then I'd be doomed to do all the cricket articles, and it's not where my interests lie. --Stfg (talk) 16:22, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

No problem, but could you please tell if you know someone who is good in copy-editing cricket articles. I really don't want someone to copy-edit this one as if this is football match. As you know, only a cricket viewer could know what is due and what is undue. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^{Talk Email} 16:25, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

In a GOCE Request, it would be reasonable to ask for someone familiar with cricket, and for ability to edit in British English. This may mean it takes a little longer to get an editor, but it's sensible, because US and baseball writers think that innings is the plural of inning, and stuff like that. [[File:|25px|link=]] --Stfg (talk) 16:35, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Haha! ;) ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^{Talk Email} 16:37, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

September 2012 copy edit backlog elimination drive barnstars!

	The Most Excellent Order of the Caretaker's Star
	For your tremendous efforts during the Guild of Copy Editors September 2012 Backlog Elimination Drive, racking up 120,665 words worth of copy editing, please accept this token of appreciation, The Most Excellent Order of the Caretaker's Star. —Torchiest talkedits 15:49, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

		The Guild of Copy Editors' Award
		For coming in first place in total number of articles (48) during the Guild of Copy Editors September 2012 Backlog Elimination Drive, I humbly present you with the Golden GOCE Award. Fine work, sir. —Torchiest talkedits 15:49, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

		The Guild of Copy Editors' Award
		For coming in first place in total number of longest tagged articles (44) during the Guild of Copy Editors September 2012 Backlog Elimination Drive, here is your second Golden GOCE Award. Thanks to your efforts, we now have only a one year backlog of tags! —Torchiest talkedits 15:49, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

		The Guild of Copy Editors' Award
		For coming in first place with the longest article copy edited (List of Street Fighter characters at a massive 11,853 words!) during the Guild of Copy Editors September 2012 Backlog Elimination Drive, enjoy your third Golden GOCE Award. Special thanks for working on what was most assuredly a tedious article! —Torchiest talkedits 15:49, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

		Leaderboard Award—2nd place, total words
		For copy editing the second largest number of words (67,475) during the Guild of Copy Editors September 2012 Backlog Elimination Drive, please also accept this Silver GOCE award. Very impressive work! —Torchiest talkedits 15:49, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

		Leaderboard Award—4th place, 5K+ articles
		For copy editing three articles worth totaling over five thousand words during the Guild of Copy Editors September 2012 Backlog Elimination Drive, have a second Silver GOCE award. Nice job! —Torchiest talkedits 15:49, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

		The 10k Copy Edit Barnstar
		Finally, for copy editing List of Street Fighter characters (11,853 words) during the Guild of Copy Editors September 2012 Backlog Elimination Drive, you have also earned the 10k Copyedit Barnstar. Congrats! —Torchiest talkedits 15:49, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Special note: Congratulations also on getting a grand total of seven awards this drive, an unprecedented achievement. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 15:49, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks very much, Torchiest. Simon. --Stfg (talk) 15:54, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

I think we need to rename your account to User:Stfg-super-bot. :P ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^{Talk Email} 15:56, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Ooh thanks, Vaibhav, can I really be a bot now? Does that mean I get to put really annoying messages on hundreds of talk pages every day? Can't wait! --Stfg (talk) 16:50, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

GOCE changes

You'd mentioned proposing some changes for the upcoming drive a few days ago. Is that still something you're planning to do? I have a few possible ideas myself and would like to add them to whatever discussion you start. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 21:01, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes. More wide-ranging than drives alone, in fact. It will be a couple of days yet. Are you OK with that? --Stfg (talk) 22:34, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

No problem. I can wait until you start things up. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 23:07, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

GOCE September 2012 drive wrap-up

Guild of Copy Editors September 2012 backlog elimination drive wrap-up Participation: Out of 41 people who signed up this drive, 28 copy-edited at least one article. Thanks to all who participated! Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here. Progress report: We achieved our primary goal of clearing July, August, September and October 2011 from the backlog. This means that, for the first time since the drives began, the backlog is less than a year. At least 677 tagged articles were copy edited, although 365 new ones were added during the month. The total backlog at the end of the month was 2341 articles, down from 8323 when we started out over two years ago. We completed all 54 requests outstanding before September 2012 as well as eight of those made in September. Copy Edit of the Month: Voting is now over for the August 2012 competition, and prizes will be issued soon. The September 2012 contest is closed for submissions and open for voting. The October 2012 contest is now open for submissions. Everyone is welcome to submit entries and to vote. – Your drive coordinators: Stfg, Allens, and Torchiest. To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list. Newsletter delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 23:54, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Great job on the drive! I think a lot more than 365 came in during September. I know I hit more than a couple. 365 is what's left... Lfstevens (talk) 02:15, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

You're right. Because categories have no history record, I don't know a way to reliably detect all the articles that are tagged and edited in the same month. Hence the "at least 677". It would have been better to say that 365 remained at the end of the month, wouldn't it. I'll try to remember that next time. --Stfg (talk) 08:23, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Rahul Dravid

I recently copy-edited this one and It would be great if you can just check whether its prose is fine or it needs more tweaking. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^{Talk Email} 15:51, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, sure. Once I do, you won't be in a position to update the diff for your competition entry any more, so do you want to give it a last check of your own first? There's something else I need to complete first anyway. Then I'll wait till you say you're done before I start. --Stfg (talk) 21:43, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

I am done now. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^{Talk Email} 11:39, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

OK. It may be today, or maybe tomorrow. If anything arises, I'll come to your talk page. --Stfg (talk) 12:11, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

August 2012 Copy Edit of the Month Award

		The Guild of Copy Editors' Award
		Thanks for your submission to the August 2012 Copy Edit of the Month contest, and congratulations! For your excellent work on Beethoven and Mozart, please accept this award on behalf of the WP:GOCE. —Torchiest talkedits 21:48, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

FLC

Thanks for your note about FLC prose quality. You've had a couple of responses at WT:FLC. It would be particularly helpful, if you felt so inclined, for you to contribute to the process from time to time. We certainly have a lot of non-English speakers who nominate lists at FLC, and one of the biggest issue is copyediting the prose. Your help would be very much appreciated. Thanks again for your interest. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:59, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll reply there. I understand WP:SOFIXIT, but was making a more general point really. --Stfg (talk) 21:03, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

I wasn't really pushing SOFIXIT at you, more encouraging you to make a big difference to our lists where prose from non-English speakers is commonplace and poor. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:04, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks again. I wouldn't have minded it being pushed at me, really, since it irritates me when people don't fix things. So, guilty even if not charged :) At present, I'm very busy as lead GOCE coordinator. Perhaps one day ... --Stfg (talk) 21:07, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Well, mea culpa as I often direct some of our weaker nominations towards WP:GOCE because, frankly speaking, they are a long way below our required standards. Your spot, albeit annoying (just because I review every list and promote some of them!) was entirely justified (although I'm not fussed about the while/and argument), perhaps, as you say, one day it would be lovely to have you pop by to check the prose on some of our lists. Perhaps, if you get bored of your daily routine, just pick a random FLC and review the prose? As Tesco keep telling me, every little helps... ! The Rambling Man (talk) 21:14, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. You should, perhaps, be aware that people at FLC are often encouraged to request assistance at GOCE only to discover there's a one or two month backlog. So they push on with (sometimes) really poor articles. What's the average time from a request to a genuine copyedit these days? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:48, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Each of the bimonthly GOCE drives now tries to clear all requests made before the start of the drive month. We've been succeeding in that, but then seeing very little activity on the non-drive months, so we're ranging between 4 and 8 weeks. I must confess that, even to achieve that, we incur a penalty in quality. It bothers me a lot. I think, really, that we're in the same boat as you, in not having quite the "workforce" we'd like. My own attitude to this problem is that there's no timescale and that quality matters more than turnaround time. But I understand that many people are keen to get their next GA or FA as quickly as they can, and many of them work very hard for it. What does one do? The real problems are retention of quality editors and being overrun with cruft; oh, and copyvio. The tag-freely-and-someone-will-run-a-backlog-drive rhythm is a big, big problem for Wikipedia. Please forgive my little rant --Stfg (talk) 22:04, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

WP:GOCE September Copy Edit Contest

Thanks for submitting an entry for the September Copy Edit of the Month contest! Please take the opportunity to ask and answer questions there (I've given everyone the same starter question), and be sure to vote for a copy edit. Thanks.—Torchiest talkedits 02:50, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi, Stfg, I've asked a question of each editor here, please feel free to ask and answer questions, and take the opportunity to vote for any candidate.Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 07:03, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

GOCE fall newsletter

Fall Events from the Guild of Copy Editors The Guild of Copy Editors invites you to participate in its events: The October 2012 Copy Edit of the Month Contest is currently in the submissions stage. Submit your best October copy edit there before the end of the month. Submissions end, and discussion and voting begin, on November 1 at 00:00 (UTC). Voting is in progress for the September 2012 Copy Edit of the Month Contest. Everyone is welcome to vote, whether they have entered the contest or not. NEW!! In the week from Sunday 21 October to Saturday 27 October, we are holding a Project Blitz, in which we will copy edit articles tagged with {{copyedit}} belonging to selected project(s). For the first blitz, we'll start with WikiProject Olympics and WikiProject Albums and add more Projects to the blitz as we clear them. The blitz works much like our bimonthly drives, but a bit simpler. Everyone is welcome to take part, and barnstars will be awarded. November 2012 Backlog elimination drive is a month-long effort to reduce the size of the copy edit backlog. The drive begins on November 1 at 00:00 (UTC) and ends on November 30 at 23:59 (UTC). Our goals are to copy edit all articles tagged in 2011 and to complete all requests placed before the end of October. Barnstars will be awarded to anyone who copy edits at least one article, and special awards will be given to the top five in the following categories: "Number of articles", "Number of words", "Number of articles of over 5,000 words", "Number of articles tagged in 2011", and "Longest article". We hope to see you there! – Your drive coordinators: Stfg, Allens, and Torchiest. >>> Blitz sign-up <<<         >>> Drive sign-up <<< To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list. Message delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 19:31, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi Stfg,

As an occasional copyeditor from the southern hemisphere I find the title of this current newsletter somewhat exclusionary. It is not "fall" (ahem, autumn) where I come from, but midway through a lovely spring. Perhaps this is something that copyeditors could be made more aware of - beware of seasonal biases. While talking in terms of seasons is sometimes valid, in the past I have edited them out of a number of articles where they don't belong. The use here is certainly not appropriate. Cheers, --jjron (talk) 09:51, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi jjron. You're absolutely right. In fact, this has been a topic of discussion at WT:GOCE#Newsletter. It was an oversight that we'll try not to repeat. Kind regards, --Stfg (talk) 10:51, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Ugh, that is really bugging me. I wonder if we could start transcluding the newsletter, so we could fix it after the fact when issues like this come up. I wonder if there's a limitation on what EdwardsBot can do. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 14:45, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

If we want to, I think it would be technically feasible, just by putting {{link to newsletter}} in the body of the request to Edwardsbot. We can always ask on its talk page whether this works as hoped, but I think it must, because we've used as least {{tl}} inside our messages before. If we did that, though, Edwardbot's signaure would have to appear outside the newsletter, on the user talk page background rather than in the table that constitutes the newsletter itself. That might look a bit clunky. I think everyone will understand that we had an accident and didn't mean to offend. I've made much worse mistakes and been given the benefit of the doubt. Shall we just take care to remember in future? --Stfg (talk) 15:30, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Ah, that makes sense. And yes, that's an error I won't repeat. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 15:41, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Me neither. You aren't allowed all the blame, you know. I proofread and agreed the changes. The evidence against me is on the coords talk page. --Stfg (talk) 15:46, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Haha, true. Okay, moving on with my life now. :) —Torchiest ^talk_edits 15:57, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Minor grammar question

In BE, are teams singular or plural with respect to verb usage? I've gotten myself all turned around from thinking about it for too long, and need a native speaker to just intuitively answer the question. Thanks. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 13:26, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

The gold standard is probably still to use the singular when referring to the team as a unit and the plural when referring to it as a collection of individuals. This probably applies even when the team name has a plural form and the predicate is singular: Bristol Academy Flyers opens with "The Bristol Academy Flyers is a professional basketball team ...", and that feels right to me, though I'd want to write "The Bristol Academy Flyers were exhausted after the match." If you want me to look at something and see if it feels all right, let me know. --Stfg (talk) 14:50, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. I'm pretty sure I've got it all worked out, but it's Rhona Martin, if you want to skim it. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 15:31, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Oh, I remember Rhona well. She (and the previously almost unknown curling) became quite a celebrity here for a while during Salt Lake City. Yeah, it looks fine. I'd have probably said "taken out of their hands", but it's right on the dividing line. --Stfg (talk) 15:45, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

		The Copyeditor's Barnstar
		I give this barnstar to you for all your hard work on copyediting the 2012 Summer Olympics article. Us Wikipedians really appreciate everyone's (including your's) constructive contributions to the world's largest encyclopedia! Keep up the good work! Signed, Interlude 65 20:27, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, Interlude65, that's very kind of you. I look forward to continuing the work in a day or two. Best regards, --Stfg (talk) 21:29, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Able bodied confusion

Hi. Would you support renames on sport articles like Raquetball to Able-bodied raquetball? There could be confusion that Raquetball is the sport played by all, and the article, if only about able-bodied people, has a misleading name.--LauraHale (talk) 10:18, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi there. No, I wouldn't support that. --Stfg (talk) 10:35, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Drive to edit article tagged in August

Hello Stfg,

Sorry to bother you, but I am a bit of a newbie in this virtual neck of the virtual woods and don't know how to sign up for GOCE Backlog elimination drives as the article I'd like to subedit (Orange) was tagged in August 2012 and that archive doesn't exist. Could you please tell me what steps I should follow? Regards,

--Cocolacoste (talk) 17:08, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi Cocolacoste. The drive you will want to take part in is our November drive. Although it takes place in November, we will be copy editing articles tagged in earlier months and you will be able to edit Orange (fruit) then. Please take a look at that page first and see if it makes everything clear. if it doesn't, please ask again and I'll help you. --Stfg (talk) 17:18, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks ever so much for your quick reply. All sorted out now.

--Cocolacoste (talk) 18:01, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

OK, welcome. Please note, the drive starts on November 1st. Don't start yet, or it won't count! --Stfg (talk) 19:06, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank You

The Deserving Barnstar

Thanks to your hard work, "Missing My Baby" is a featured article. I would like to say how appreciative I am that you picked it up and did what you could, even though commercial music isn't you're thang . Hope you continue working at the Guild of Copy-editors on Wikipedia, pretty sure they are glad to have a user like you. With all the best and warm wishes, Jonatalk to me 00:11, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Ah, well done Jona, yet another FA for you. Thanks very much for the recognition. --Stfg (talk) 09:49, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

GOCE October 2012 Blitz barnstar!

		The Cleanup Barnstar
		For copy editing articles totalling 8,713 words during the Guild of Copy Editors October 2012 Copy Editing Blitz, please accept this barnstar on behalf of the GOCE. Thanks for participating! —Torchiest talkedits 15:30, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! And for cleaning up the blitz page yesterday. --Stfg (talk) 15:57, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

On Hyderabad

Hi! I was unaware of that CCI. The case started in August 2011, and seems to have paused. The nominator explained that there is no doubt about the good faith of the editor. I have interacted with the editor for the past year (almost), and I have no doubt about his good faith, at the present time. Of course I am not much aware of his past editing pattern, and perhaps he had copy-vio problems at that time.

Now, coming to the Hyderabad article, I have significantly copy-edited some parts of the article, which are (as far as I remember) as follows. "Post-independence" in History, Neibourhoods and landmarks in Geography, Local government in Administration, Demographics (except the Slums subsection), Economy, and Education. I did not do any spot check during the copyedits, rather tried to concentrate on correction of errors and sentence structure change (well, those copyedits were limited by my knowledge of English, which is "advanced level" at best. So the prose may not read professional level). Although nobody can be completely confident, I am pretty much sure at least these sections should not have blatant copy-vios.

I have randomly edited in some other sections as well. However, I am not as much confident for those sections.

Overall, I would rather think that the article does not have blatant copy-vios, based on my experience with the article and the editor in question. If you ask for a ball park figure, I would be more than 75% confident! Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 19:34, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, I read the CCI, and I don't doubt his good faith. Copy editing can obscure copyvio by making the wording different but still fail to eliminate the unfair use. If I copy "He invited 24 guests to lunch on Sunday and served them roast beef" and change it into, say, "He invited two dozen guests to Sunday lunch; the main course was roast beef", then I have not done enough, as that is still a close paraphrse. Many editors go astray in good faith just by not realising that. I'll attempt some spot checks before starting the job. --Stfg (talk) 20:00, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

In addition, I did not read the sources religiously during my copyedits. So my copyedits were independent of probable copy-vio problems. Some copy-vios (if there were any) are likely to get modified during my copy-edits merely by chance. However, that does not exclude the chance of close paraphrasing, as you have mentioned above.

The very few random and non-structured spot-checks that I incidentally did during the copy-edits did not yield anything to suspect copy-vio problems. Unfortunately, I did not maintain a log of the sources that I incidentally checked. In case I do any random spot checks, I will let you know.--Dwaipayan (talk) 20:25, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

A question on sentence structure

Can you please tell me if the following sentence is conveying the correct meaning?

" Tripura is the second-most populous state in Northeast India, after Assam".

Here, I wanted to mean that in northeast India, Assam ranks first and Tripura second in the descending order of population. The apparent fallacy is the sentence may mean that Tripura ranks second in population after excluding Assam, so actually ranks third.

Am I thinking in a too difficult way? Your suggestion will be greatly valued. Thanks.--Dwaipayan (talk) 03:36, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

It means Assam is the first and Tripura the second :) In the case of "most", you don't want the hyphen. Best, --Stfg (talk) 09:54, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

On reflection, although that is what it means, this kind of sentence can easily arouse that sort of worry, and it may be better to rephrase it. How about: Tripura ranks second only to Assam as the most populous state in Northeast India. That gets rid of any trouble in understanding, replaces the weak "is" with a stronger verb, and removes the flavour of an afterthought in the last two words of the original. --Stfg (talk) 11:01, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

wow! That's great. I will use this style in the article. Another version I thought was, " Tripura is second most populated state in Northeast India, trailing behind Assam.". The structure suggested by you, however, is much more strong and sweet. Thanks.--Dwaipayan (talk) 15:08, 30 October 2012 (UTC)