User talk:Sitush/Archive 20

On the way forward: consider this before posting here

I would much prefer it if certain people did not post on this page. So, before posting please consider whether you might be described as a tendentious canvasser or drama seeker, mischief-maker, advocate, misrepresenter, someone who piles on without clue, or someone carrying over "by association" the disputes that they have with contributors elsewhere. If you might fall into one or more of those categories and still think it necessary to pass comment here then please try to find an admin to do that for you (and if you are an admin - Chillum comes to mind - then find another). I'm not keen on this because it restricts collaboration but, hey, people like that basically just seem to vent, poke or offer weird "advice" when I am the subject of their attention. I'm human, not a saint; while my ability to tolerate the types described above is not bad, it is also not infinite.

I'd be pleased if the time that you would have spent here is expended instead on editing India-related articles. But bear in mind that you will need to be able to:

• deal knowledgeably with touchy and repetitively-raised issues such as Hindutva-, religious- and caste-related POV-pushing
• handle completely clueless newbies on a large scale, many of them encouraged to edit by an ill-considered WMF initiative
• handle often large-scale sock- and meat-farms, and masses of copyvio and BLP violations
• take copious amounts of general abuse pretty much daily
• face all sorts of physical and legal threats, both on- and off-wiki, as well as real-life stalking over prolonged periods by multiple people

All with little or no support from the WMF and large swathes of the community who are more interested in the never-ending tendentious discussion of "meta" issues - among them policy, "honor", and the creation of a Wikitopia - than actually improving content where it matters most.

And when you need a break from articles that relate to 20 per cent of the world's population and which suffer grossly from bias, systemic and otherwise, go chill by creating a GA or at least a B-class article more or less single-handed. Do all of this and you'll make me a very happy (and surprised) man. Do it for 130k-ish edits without getting blocked, on spurious grounds or otherwise, then you'll be really quite remarkable.

I'm not saying that I will be back but if I do return, I'd rather not see stuff here from the types of people described above. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 18:18, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

• Sitush, I have long believed you should be on payroll here. Even just $50 a months from WMF, that would be a nice gesture. Take care, Drmies (talk) 14:19, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

• Instant classic. Thanks. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:18, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Well-deserved barnstar

		The India Star
		Thank you for all your outstanding work on topics relating to India, in the face of determined opposition by those not here to build an encyclopedia. I truly hope you return to active editing after a rest. In any case, I wish you well. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 06:38, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Struck off comment on Jimbo's page

Since I didn't see the comment, I should not have said it. Struck. Kingsindian ♝♚ 13:21, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Welcome back!

No judgment, no criticism, no further comment but...welcome back.--Mark Miller (talk) 23:24, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

? --Epipelagic (talk) 23:36, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

If you are confused.....I have to wonder why. This wasn't for you. It was for Sitush.

Im guessing the confusion being that there have been no edits by Sitush since he announced he had left. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 19:27, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Petrean calling

Not sure of your matriculation year, but I know several porters who would kick at least one bell out of you for packing this up. Drop me a line, we can reminisce over Gisborne Court, debate the pros and cons of allowing other (dubious) colleges access to the Deer Park for various functions, and yes, oh yes, let's talk about the William Stone Building (red link!!!). I have plenty to say about that thing. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:19, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gender Gap Task Force opened

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gender Gap Task Force. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gender Gap Task Force/Evidence. Please add your evidence by October 17, 2014, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gender Gap Task Force/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Ks0stm ^{(T•C•G•E)} 14:37, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

FOR GOD'S SAKE

FOR GOD'S SAKE, PLEASE RETURN TO WIKIPEDIA AND RESUME EDITING. I BADLY need your presence. See User:Titodutta/Condensed proposed roadmap for Wikimedia work in India for a hint. --Tito☸Dutta 03:02, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Talkback message from Tito Dutta

Hello, Sitush. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#What_should_Wikimedia_do_to_protect_their_editors_against_real-life_threats.3F.
Message added 20:51, 12 October 2014 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Tito☸Dutta 20:51, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

Best regards

Come back strong. —Tim /// Carrite (talk) 15:01, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

ditto. ditto. ditto. - Rayabhari (talk) 14:02, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

• Yep. I just saw you had posted at AN and thought you were back. I hope you are. You're among a core group of editors one can typically count on--knows how to write, can separate wheat from chaff, cares about the goals of the project. Well. All the best to you, Sitush, whatever you decide. Drmies (talk) 20:54, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

What the wise doctor said.

Honestly, I think it would be good for you to take a wikibreak to take care of the serious off-wiki harassment without being distracted by the on-wiki niggles that are part of editing on wikipedia (and that you are otherwise very well equipped to deal with). But if you think you'll be allowed to simply retire, think again. :-)

Email, if we can be any help. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 03:23, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

OH NO!

Hi sitush, Just saw your retirement thing here! , had reworked on the article sri aurobindo. if possible only when you feel you can peak back in once, can you have a look at it before i push it to GA nomination again ? Shrikanthv (talk) 13:21, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

I fondly want to remind you that, you are not permitted to retire! How you can retire without our permission? Hope ,you will return soon. Rayabhari (talk) 15:15, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

A cup of tea for you!

Hope you will accept the offer of a cup of tea and return. Rayabhari (talk) 15:17, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Good Humor
	I hope this turns out to be a wikibreak only, and that you return in the near future, refreshed and ready to continue. Cheers – SchroCat (talk) 18:50, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Case opened

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Landmark Worldwide. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Landmark Worldwide/Evidence. Please add your evidence by October 30, 2014, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Landmark Worldwide/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, S Philbrick(Talk) 01:52, 16 October 2014 (UTC)--S Philbrick(Talk) 01:52, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Endorsement request

Hi Sitush!

I've applied to be an online ambassador for Wikipedia educational classes like Women, Art and Culture. Would you mind if I used you for an endorsement at this noticeboard?

Thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:14, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

• As you have noticed, I gave one. --Tito☸Dutta 01:32, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

• • Yes, thank you! That was nice of you!--CaroleHenson (talk) 10:23, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

You custom email

Why is not it still working now? Did they not they (ICANN/your domain service provider) re-enable it? a quick look-up showed 0 A record, 0 MX record for the domain. --Tito☸Dutta 08:27, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

I don't think any good would come from a public discussion about this, except possibly for an announcement of a final outcome, when that is known. Johnuniq (talk) 08:46, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

The domain removal process has been halted and the registration is being returned to me. It might take a few hours for everything to sort itself out, including re-propagation through the DNS servers etc. - Sitush (talk) 13:39, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Good! NebY (talk) 15:38, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Why are not you coming back still?

We have much much more important works in hand than those IAC, we have CoTM restart, EnWP India community organization etc, see User:Titodutta/Condensed proposed roadmap for Wikimedia work in India'

And our proposed leader is gone from En WP. When are you returning ? --Tito☸Dutta 19:32, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

@Titodutta:

Wow, that is a very ambitious list of projects. Is this part of the India WikiProject? Or, maybe that's what you mean by EnWP India community organization.

There's a lot there that is out of my reach, but I've just written a couple of dozen or so articles about India - mostly places, towns, or biographies. If I can help out a little with articles that are not likely to be contentious, I would be happy to kick in a bit of effort.--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:59, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

• Yes, those are recent Wikimedia India Conference's "ideas" (Bangalore, 4-5 October). #Community is mainly our works, but, we can spread and take over other works as well. First thing we need is "community organization" and we need Sitush to lead the project. -- Tito☸Dutta 20:09, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

• Gotcha. That sounds a little tricky if he's retired and is in poor health. Good luck, though, it sounds like an interesting program.--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:14, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

A requested move

Please participate here: User_talk:Titodutta/Condensed_proposed_roadmap_for_Wikimedia_work_in_India#Informal_requested_move --Tito☸Dutta 20:36, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Come back

	Come Back
	Wybrand Hendriks - Interieur met naaiende vrouw. With a Löwchen Hafspajen (talk) 21:22, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Sitush, Löwchen! Hafspajen (talk) 11:54, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Sitush, Löwchen!

A barnstar for you!

	The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
	For obvious reasons. Dougweller (talk) 15:04, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Request

I'm rather taken with your second paragraph here as I share the same view and it's a pleasure to see it articulated so precisely. Would you feel comfortable with it appearing on my user page as a boxed quote? I'd prefer to include attribution, but I'm easy either way and would respect your wishes. Fyi, according to the page view statistics my user page achieves near-record levels of indifference. Nevertheless I'm far from indifferent about its contents. Writegeist (talk) 17:57, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

It is not my property. Do whatever you wish with it. - Sitush (talk) 23:19, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

To be clear: I didn't ask in the belief that you're its owner, but in the knowledge that you're its author. Anyway, thanks. Willie Eckerslyke, aka Writegeist (talk) 03:35, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Party to Arbitration Case

Per this request by Worm That Turned, I have added you to the list of involved parties for the Gender Gap Task Force case. Since this addition is after evidence phase has closed, the evidence phase is now re-opened until October 25th (with the other phases' dates pushed back accordingly). - Penwhale | ^{dance in the air and follow his steps} 12:25, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Doubt I'll be adding evidence. I am once again briefly in Manchester but will soon be leaving and am thus spending my short bit of time here refuting errant claims etc in the Workshop phase. - Sitush (talk) 12:46, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

• That's fine. Procedural notification, that's all. - Penwhale | ^{dance in the air and follow his steps} 03:05, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

• Right now, it doesn't look as if it was an extension worth making but I realise that people have to go through the motions. - Sitush (talk) 15:36, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Blank Redirect

This page Talk:List_of_Khandelwal_Gotras was created as per WP:LISTN. Before redirection, it should have been discussed here on talk page WP:ATD-R

Reverting it to original content and expecting you to discuss the necessity of redirect. --Adroit09 (talk) 19:24, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Halloween cheer!

Happy Halloween!

---

Hello Sitush:
Thanks for all of your contributions to improve Wikipedia, and have a happy and enjoyable Halloween!
    – Hafspajen (talk) 13:48, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Send Halloween cheer by adding {{subst:Happy Halloween}} to user talk pages with a friendly message.

Bloody hell. I'm agitated enough at the moment without thinking about things Halloween-ish which, regrettably, are gaining traction in the UK as US cultural norms continue to infest. Just as those norms are continuing to infest this global project. But thanks for the first part of your statement. - Sitush (talk) 13:57, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

It's good to see you around. Take care.--CaroleHenson (talk) 17:53, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Oh, nobody was expecting you to do anything, Sitush, . Let the others spooky - spooke. Hafspajen (talk) 02:10, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

Retired

Sorry, folks. I can't handle the mess here any more. It is actually making me feel pretty ill now. Treat Ancoats railway station as a last gift from me. - Sitush (talk) 19:30, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

• Whoosh. Don't retire. --Tito☸Dutta 19:35, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
• Gods bless, stay safe, and thanks for all you've done here. Yngvadottir (talk) 21:13, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
• Sad. WP's loss. Understandable. All the best for the future. DeCausa (talk) 21:37, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
• Sad but understandable. How you managed to put up with all the crap surrounding the Indian/caste articles for so long will forever remain a mystery to me. I may be following you out the door quite soon myself as it happens. Eric Corbett 03:33, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
• Please reconsider. GoodDay (talk) 03:46, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
• Go well Sitush. Wikipedia hugely benefited from your presence. You are one of Wikipedia's greatest, most courageous and honourable editors. And one of Wikipedia's greatest shames... Wikipedia doesn't deserve great editors. --Epipelagic (talk) 04:35, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
• Some time, some place, we'll meet again. All the best to you, and enjoy the peace of mind that, I hope, may come from leaving Wikipedia. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:49, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
• Precious and missed (pictured). On 14 October, I began my independence from Teh Community, with the help of some courageous people, Eric first, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:52, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
• I don't blame you either Sitush, take care and all the very best. I do hope things get sorted out for you, who knows you might be starting a procession through that exit door. J3Mrs (talk) 09:15, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
• A sad and ignoble day for Wikipedia. Goodbye, Sitush, and goodbye too to any hope of having decent and unbiased coverage of anything related to the Indian subcontinent. Yunshui ^雲_水 09:25, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, all. One last thing, though: if anyone has any useful advice to offer regarding how to retrieve my domain name, which is being deactivated as per this thread due to IAC's malicious accusation of 419 scamming, then my Wikipedia email link is still operative because it uses GMail. I think I need legal advice because neither ICANN nor the domain registrar will deal with me and the registrar's reseller (Easily Ltd) are refusing to reply to my emails. I'm really in trouble unless I can resolve this issue. - Sitush (talk) 09:27, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

• a) Should I email (using this form) or call them (in their Washington, US number) and see if they give any response? b) The journalist who made a news story once, have you contacted them? It might be another story for them. c) I can get a lawyer's opinion (Indian lawyer, using "vakilsearch" etc website, that's all I can afford financially). Do you want to do it? Id you do, I'll give these a try ASAP. --Tito☸Dutta 12:35, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Can you not transfer the domain name away from Easily to someone more sensible? I often use JustTheName. Eric Corbett 12:37, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Update: Easily have replied to my latest email. Perhaps someone has had a word with them. I'll see what happens next. - Sitush (talk) 18:49, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

I've had similar problems in the past. The bottom line is that most ISPs don't care about the validity of the complaints, they just don't want the hassle of the complaints. Eric Corbett 19:34, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Not good but understandable Sitush. I hope you come back but messing up your life is not what Wikipedia should be about. The sad truth is that without people like you around, entire parts of Wikipedia will sink into some sort of POV hell hole at the cost of its credibility. --regentspark (comment) 15:04, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

• We've had our differences, but I still hold you in the highest respect. I hope to goodness that you come back; till then the Indic spaces will have to get by with lesser mortals such as myself. Vaya con dios, my friend. Vanamonde93 (talk) 15:18, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
• Wishing you all the best. Farewell for now in fondness. Fylbecatulous talk 03:42, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
• Good luck Sitush and may you have success in all you do. Hopefully one day you will return and resume your excellent work. Cassianto^talk 18:37, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
• Sitush, you have been very helpful and flown the flag for those who believe article improvement comes before everything else and always should do. That said, I can't blame you for retiring given the circumstances. Take it easy and enjoy what you do. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 09:49, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
• Sitush, you've been an amazing support and I've appreciated all your kind nudges. I guess my brain had not computed (or didn't want to) that it was a full-out retirement, but you absolutely need to take care of yourself. If there's anything I can do, let me know.--CaroleHenson (talk) 10:27, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
• Don't retire...just take a break. But should your decision be to stay retired...I will accept it, although I for one (along with many others it appears) don't like it one bit. Hey...I know we have had butted heads at times, but I also know how much work you put into this site. Whether you return or not, your work will live on here...but I encourage you to return. Why leave for good? Nothing that has happened has been your fault. Any mistakes you might have made can be overlooked or just seen as they are...mistakes. But for the most part you are one of the great Wikipedians. Don't let being insulted drive you away. You do know that is what your opponents want? They want you to be so offended you turn your back on your own work. Don't give them that satisfaction. Take some time and return. You know you have great support, even from your "so called" critics!--Mark Miller (talk) 03:49, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
• Dear sir, I have been privileged to benefit from your help and support and for your guidance, and its indeed sad that you have decided to quit. Wikipedia seriously needs a lot of help and indeed, standards seem to be plummeting rather than improving as more and more serious editors leave and tyros come in and ruin articles. It is understandable that all the petty squabbles and constant editing/fixing/refixing etc would take its toll on one's psyche. However, Sir, I would make a small request that you shouldnt quit/leave totally please but absolutely reduce your presence to the minimum, you dont even have to check in here regularly--but your very presence and its impact is significant and you could maybe make rare contributions/corrections, whenever it suited you, thanks. With best regards and good wishes, AsadUK200 (talk) 01:41, 1 November 2014 (UTC)AsadUK200

About Patrol forty

Obviously a sock account. We know it. The arbs know it. The clerks know it. My guess is the account is not blocked only because nobody is positive enough of the puppet-master's identity to run a CU. But nevertheless, the arbs etc are certainly taking this into account in evaluating PF's contributions to the case (although they won't come out and outright say it). So my suggestion is that you just ignore PF unless you have enough to start an SPI. Abecedare (talk) 01:09, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Too late now - see Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Patrol_forty. I could say more but I'm in deep enough shit as it is. FWIW, I'm not bothered about their stuff in the ArbCom case; my issue is more general than that and I know that it is shared by a lot of others, as you suggest. - Sitush (talk) 01:16, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Oh I saw the ANI post. My comment above was only to point out the that the places PF is posting are the very ones that the most experienced wikipedia users hang around, and so PF's trolling is unlikely to be fool anyone (and surely won't last long). So I am frankly less concerned about PF than an actual hard-to-detect POV-pushing sock account operating in article space, AFDs etc. Abecedare (talk) 01:21, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Well, I'm concerned and I want it to last for no longer than is absolutely necessary. In part because it may cause some really good content contributors to blow up and then we will cause problems for them but retain this person. I've just blown up myself, although I've managed to do so without invoking any massively nasty words (well, "bollocks" might be considered a nasty word to the ultra-correct but, well, their opinion is bollocks itself). - Sitush (talk) 01:27, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Yes, that is a concern. Btw, when I see good users such as yourself fall for such obvious baiting, I really feel like head-slapping you speaking metaphorically, tpsers. So please save me the aggravation :-) Abecedare (talk) 01:33, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Believe me, I slap my own head sometimes. Right now, I feel like slapping it against a brick wall. We take this AGF thing much too far. If someone is obviously and persistently baiting etc then why do people AGF? - Sitush (talk) 01:35, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Uses the term "sock-puppettry"- it appears that this spelling is solely a US variant (probably not a typo by the editor). (gave me something to do whilst hanging on the 'phone). Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 10:01, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Live better :)

	Live better :)
	I hope You would Live a better Life, truly some tobacco for You !! ← Abstruce 19:49, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Free beer

Thank you all for your notes and emails. Things are beginning to sort themselves out, albeit there is still a very confusing ArbCom case and a lot of problems with the IAC.

Here in the UK it is quite common to see little brass plaques etc in pubs that say "Free beer tomorrow". For any talk page stalkers from the US who happen to conform to the stereotype "Yanks don't do irony" thing, that is an ironic notice. However, we're obviously living in the wrong country. - Sitush (talk) 01:32, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Funny! I'm glad to see you in good spirits! I hope you're doing well, aside from the ongoing issues.--CaroleHenson (talk) 01:41, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

A bit like Whisky Galore really. Eric Corbett 01:44, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

source info for Rajput

"The Rajputs were seen as ruling class, who were extremely well respected by the mughals and who were deeply allied with mughal court throughout tribute and military service." Link Rajput334 (talk) 10:51, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

I meant that you should provide a quotation on the article talk page but in any event this doesn't support what we say at Rajput#Mughals_and_Maratha_domination. - Sitush (talk) 11:08, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Bored?

If you are particularly bored, this is tailor-made for you. Or, you can just sit back and bathe-in the glorious radiance of the clan. :) Abecedare (talk) 02:38, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Reverted to last best version.[1] User has added only book titles for citations, but we require full citations and his citations are from 19th century, means outdated. Bladesmulti (talk) 03:13, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Dasa

Hello Sitush, Trust your health has improved. Welcome back. Please could you clean up the article, Dasa. Thanks. --Mayasutra [= No ||| Illusion =] (talk) 09:04, 4 November 2014 (UTC)Mayasutra

I am trying to avoid doing much on India-related articles for the time being. This one looks like it will need a substantial pruning, if only because it has been a target for socks of Buddhakahika, who is pretty notorious for introducing POV, WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. - Sitush (talk) 09:14, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

No prob Sitush. Planning to do this next year, after India etymology issue is resolved first, and Vellalar is fixed next. Thanks for letting me know abt the socks (i thot they were diff users). The article sure is a mess and needs substantial time.--Mayasutra [= No ||| Illusion =] (talk) 01:24, 8 November 2014 (UTC)Mayasutra

Vellalar

I suppose you do not want to be involved with the article Vellalar? Please guide me to an admin or someone else who can mediate with edits there. Thanks.--Mayasutra [= No ||| Illusion =] (talk) 09:04, 4 November 2014 (UTC)Mayasutra

I don't mind being involved in principle but I really could do without the stress right now. I'm not aware of anyone who might be prepared to take it on but perhaps a stalker will see this and be willing. - Sitush (talk) 06:42, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

November 2014

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Kader Siddique may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:

• entered [[Dhaka]] along with the Indian forces,<ref>http://banglapedia.search.com.bd/HT/M_0380.htm]</ref> signalling the end of the war.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 11:09, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Parekh may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s and 1 "{}"s likely mistaking one for another. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:

• ''Parekh''' (also spelled Parikh} is a surname. Some notable people bearing the name are:

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 20:47, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Kathog Rigzin Chenpo lineage

I haven't a clue what this is. Maybe you or Tito can figure this out. Bgwhite (talk) 06:39, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Iyengar page

Hi Sitush, Thanks for your note. I added the external link to the page as i felt it is an appropriate website for the topic. If you felt it is spam, i am sorry. My intention is/was not to spam the wiki page. Spk100 (talk) 11:12, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

@Spk100: no problem, it is quite a common mistake. Maybe check the guidance at #10 in the list at WP:ELNO. - Sitush (talk) 11:27, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Please read

Wiki letter w.svg This article has not been added to any categories. Please help out by adding categories to it so that it can be listed with similar articles, in addition to a stub category. Please remove this tag after categorizing. What part of in addition to stub categories do you not understand? Postcard Cathy (talk) 15:32, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Your tagging is confusing a lot of people, by the looks of things. I fixed the problem and I don't understand why you could not have done so instead of simply tagging it. You clearly know more about stub cats than me and so, frankly, it was stupid of you not to sort the problem. - Sitush (talk) 15:36, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Hello Sir, Please have a look on Rajput article, I noticed that user Rajput334 recently removed some content from Rajput without explaining, infact messing it..Please restore the sourced content. Thanks Sir. John811jd (talk) 02:46, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Sorry

Sorry I was too late to help with this. Weekends tend to be a bit of a whirlwind at Casa Ponyo and I don't always get to log in. --Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 21:10, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

No probs. There is little doubt that another one will be along soon. - Sitush (talk) 00:11, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Bains Clan of Jatts

Hello, how is it BLP violations if I provided evidence. The stage name of the singers were obviously different but their original surname was Bains. Can you please look into this further? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bains_clan — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.15.60.188 (talk) 02:02, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Please see User:Sitush/Common#Castelists. Last names are not verification of caste affiliation. - Sitush (talk) 02:06, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Gurjar

Hello, how is it violations if I provided evidence & How a news paper news is a copyright violation. We have taken the article about Gurjar people & their population published in Indian national news paper for reference only.(which is more than 100 years old publication & largest selling) Their data was based on pre-independence of India cast based census. At Jat people Wikipedia, same type of reference was used. So, Do not remove this information.

Sardar Vallabh Bhai Patel (Ex Home minister of India) was Patidar Gurjar, as already mentioned in Wikipedia of Sardar Vallabh Bhai Patel. So why Kasmiri & you are tring to remove this information. He is Hero of Gurjars & They People celebrate his Birth Anniversary on 31 October every year. So, I request you to not to manipulate Great Gurjar history with any other caste or person. This is largest Tribe of ancient india and still exist in large number of modern India. Lots of groups are separated but still stand with great identity. Thanks Gurjeshwar (talk) 09:37, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

And I request you to discuss this where you were asked to discuss it, ie: at Talk:Gurjar. Although you are not going to get your way, so maybe save some pixels? - Sitush (talk) 09:55, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Your Attitude objectionable

In all your time here you have done nothing except undo the honest information provided with proofs and facts. I still not able to understand that what is your problem, you are not talking openly on particular information on which you have objection, so we will provide more facts. Lots of articles has written on wikipedia without citation by writing and marking as citation needed. Here i am providing the web document proof, and you are doing objection without knowing the actual thing. I condemn your biased behaviour, and ready to talk on every Wikipedia articles where more discrepancies found. But you are taking your mind here with wrong conclusions. You can not permit any other caste relation including Rajput with Gurjars. I strictly objection on it. How you can co relate a large number of Gurjar people with other Rajput caste. It is not acceptable every writer is writing without biased. How you can warn us without knowing the facts. Gurjeshwar (talk) 11:52, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Gurjeshwar (talk) 11:52, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Bhumihar brahmin/Babhan

Hey bro you have excluded my stuff saying that it is racist material of British census which clearly mentioned about the enumeration of babhans as martial race in 1891 and there are enough book suggesting that they were enumerated as priestly brahmins after that census. Yes i also consider the material is racist but the material you have pasted is a false as well as racist . British census have never mentioned babhans as sudras. babhan was the name used for this very bhumihar brahmin community during British era. Even you can find out the Mr. herbert risley statement which misunderstood babhan to be offshoot of rajput which has been explained in the book by pandit yogendranath bhattacharya. He(yogendra nath) has mentioned all the rumours and jealousy comments of the people regarding bhumihar brahmin. Please go through it. book which you have mentioned i.e.(Democracy against Development: Lower-Caste Politics and Political Modernity ... By Jeffrey Witsoe) has mentioned babhan were enumerated as shudra in british census is a totally false and fictitious claim. please mention british census claimimg this thing before writing this fact. These days i am reading many fictions stories made by many persons regarding babhan (bhumihar community without any historical account. It is totally insane. https://archive.org/stream/hinducastesands00bhatgoog#page/n136/mode/2up, https://archive.org/stream/hinducastesands00bhatgoog#page/n132/mode/2up. It is unfortunate that what ever rumour and fictious claim you encounter consider as truth and Historic evidences you do not accept. You are doing like pakistan which claims that pakistanis ruled upto Spain during ottoman empire. just grow up man and give some historical account rather than any fictitious account. Do not delete my Historic accounts and be a sensible person. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bpandey89 (talk • contribs) 16:54, 11 November 2014‎ (UTC)

Please read WP:NPOV, WP:RS, WP:V and WP:CENSORED. Note also that I invited you to add the specific point about martial race classification. Look, you've already had a caste sanctions warning and you (along with some others, now blocked) have been nothing but a pain at that article for months now. It would be great if you could actually start to follow our policies here but if not then I fear you've just about made your last contribution to that subject. - Sitush (talk) 17:21, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Hey bro u are giving warning to a person who want to rectify the stuff which do not have credible and backup document. I have already mentioned the census report above which provides the evidence about enumeration babhan caste in military class. Please mention the Census report which says bhumihar(babhan) to be a sudra (which means untouchables or dalit of british era). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bpandey89 (talk • contribs) 17:30, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

We do not use the Raj censuses because they were hopelessly unreliable. On the caste aspect, they relied on scientific racism and on a constantly changing, arbitrary categorisation of communities. The article cites a modern source. - Sitush (talk) 17:35, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Self-imposed interaction restriction

My apologies for bringing this up, but I thought I would raise it to your attention in case you were going to make further statements regarding your self-imposed interaction restriction: this comment by you is an interaction. I recognize you intended it to be humourous, but I think the reaction of the other party was predictable, and it's discouraging to the participants who just want to talk about the real issues. isaacl (talk) 16:20, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Oh, pfft. Have you seen how much shit CMDC has been throwing my way the last few weeks, all of which I ignored. She should be sitebanned and I'm getting "thank" notifications and emails supportive of my belief. I don't need people like you interfering in this right now. - Sitush (talk) 16:56, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Again, my apologies; I chose to raise this on your talk page precisely because I have no desire to interfere with any other discussions. My primary concern is if you should choose to make a statement regarding your interactions again, someone may come back and raise this comment as a counter, so I just wanted you to be prepared for this eventuality. Yes, I've seen the messages from others, and personally experienced hasty judgments, so I appreciate your restraint. isaacl (talk) 17:35, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

So that would be 999 - 1, then. I don't care now, to be honest. I'm looking into doing as much as I can this evening on the FAC for William Beach Thomas and then scrambling my password. - Sitush (talk) 17:38, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your contributions, and I echo Eric's comments to humbly request that you try not to act in haste. You can always scramble your password tomorrow; as you've noted, there are many who prefer your presence to your absence. isaacl (talk) 17:47, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

I'd rather leave the place if persistent POV-pushers and demagogues are being tolerated even after numerous past problems with them that have, bizarrely, almost always resulted in the "opponents" being knocked out. I can do without the teasing, the nasty inferences etc that the proposed decision does not cater for, and I no longer have a desire to be a part of a project where people like that are involved. Even childish things like messing with signatures to irritate specific people also irks me, even though I am not the target. I don't want to be a participant in a project that tolerates their games, their paranoia and their obsessions. I won't be able to abide by the total IBAN because I have a genuine sense of justice that is so much a guide to how I live that I'm best off gone from here. - Sitush (talk) 17:59, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Please stay with us Sitush. You are a great asset to the project. Troublemakers get taken down eventually.Charles (talk) 18:11, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

I, also, suggest laying quiet for a while. Sincerely, DoctorTerrella (talk) 18:51, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Arbitrary heading

User_talk:SubhashNandal#Verifiability

Dear Sitush,

I would like to attract your kind attention toward that article NANDAL. May you please tell me which of the information you can't verify and what efforts you did to verify, what resources you used. Have you not found those villages in those states and countries. I am confident you can verify each and every thing, only thing you personally need to go there, because person like you can't believe the facts given by others. I challenge you can't prove any point wrong.

Only thing is that this type of responsibility is given to a person (you) who have very limited vision and no experience of the region. This is very unfortunate for the Wikipedia also because you are destroying the work of others and not letting it to progress. I will request the Wikipedia to keep an eye on your doings if they want to see the progress of Wikipedia.

Once again I am sorry to say that I was not aware that Wikipedia has given the control to the person who have -ve competencies.

Good Luck

Subhash Nandal - — Preceding unsigned comment added by SubhashNandal (talk • contribs) 21:39, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Query regarding a FAC

Appeal to the stalkers, most of whom probably do not frequent WP:FAC.

I've got a FAC going on here for an article that I created and that others have been very helpful in developing, in particular Drmies and Eric Corbett. An interesting query has been raised regarding

It was a favourable depiction specifically of the English soldier, somewhat contrary to the official line that tried to emphasise that this was a British war rather than an English one.

The query concerns the distinction between British and English, which is one that may be lost on many readers and in fact is often lost on many people even within the UK. For now, I've linked British people and English people but I'm not terribly happy about it. Ok, @Curly Turkey: is not massively bothered about the issue but I do think it is a very valid one. I'd be grateful if anyone might have any suggestions regarding an optimum way to deal with it. - Sitush (talk) 00:52, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, but I think you're still misunderstanding me. It's not over the distinction between Britain and England, but why non-English Brits would consider WWI an English war rather than a British one. For instance, in Canada there were different feelings about the War between the anglophones and francophones that led to the Conscription Crisis of 1917. Was there something similar happening in non-English Britain that made the non-English Brits feel it wasn't "their" war (that seems to be the implication from what's in the article)? And if there was, is there an article that could be linked to? Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 00:59, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

It seems that I still am misunderstanding, sorry. Can we see what comes out of this, if anything? Or would you consider it some sort of canvassing? The Conscription Crisis link looks interesting - I wasn't even aware of that issue. - Sitush (talk) 01:02, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

I wouldn't consider it canvassing, or even an important issue (notice I've already supported)—I just thought it would be nice to have something to link to as it appeared to imply something in the background I wasn't aware of. I'd like to see the Conscription Crisis articles (there was another during WWII) cleaned up, but I probably won't get involved in that myself (interested in reading but not writing about politics). Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 01:23, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

I realise you have already supported but this is bugging me on a personal level because it is a valid point - it still is even now I've started to understand it! There is a sort of systemic bias aspect to it also. I won't be around to clean up anything, by the looks of it, but those do sound like interesting topics. - Sitush (talk) 01:32, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

@Curly Turkey: Not sure of Scotland and Wales, but Ireland's (and the Catholic Church's) feelings towards participation in the Great War were pretty mixed, especially after an initial shot of brave and patriotic enthusiasm. Ireland and World War I discusses some of this.

@Sitush: I know that "British" can refer to either UK or Great Britain, but in this case is it possible to make clear that the former (actually UKoGB&I, to be pedantic) is the intended referent? Abecedare (talk) 01:54, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Ireland and World War I is at the same time broader and narrower than what I was hoping for, but it might be worth throwing that link into a footnate. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 03:41, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

On second thought, I think the TLS quote already makes it sufficiently clear that British people includes the Irish in this context. Abecedare (talk) 02:03, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I think it does. It also mentions the "Colonials". An aside: Gladstone, who was obsessed with solving what was called the "Irish Question" and introduced several Home Rule bills in an unsuccessful attempt to do so, once said something like "The problem with the Irish is that every time I propose a solution, they change the question!" Always made me chuckle, that. Along with the little drawings of whips in his diaries. - Sitush (talk) 02:20, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

That quote describes so many on-wiki discussions! :-) Abecedare (talk) 02:31, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

It does. Got connection problems today & perhaps tomorrow also - won't be around much until they're resolved. - Sitush (talk) 12:32, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

I haven't had a chance to say so yet....

Welcome back! :) Should anything happen, remember to sing this over and over :) Dusti^{*Let's talk!*} 16:57, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

A query re: tagging of my contributions

Have my contributions from yesterday morning until about an hour ago been tagged with the "mobile edit" thing? I have been saying that I've had connection difficulties but someone seems not to understand that. I've been using a laptop but tethered to a phone's wifi. - Sitush (talk) 19:45, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

No, they haven't. I'm not 100% positive, but I think that tag happens when you're editing using the mobile version of Wikipedia, not when you're just using a mobile device (or a mobile device's wifi). --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:51, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

I see. Thanks, Floq. Maybe I need to find a CU who will verify it because I'm getting a bit pissed off with complaints about me not providing diffs when I've been trying to respond in awkward circumstances. The changeover of ISP has now happened, after much palaver. - Sitush (talk) 19:54, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Testing my theory; using the mobile version, but doing so on my desktop. We'll see what happens....--Floquenbeam (talk) 19:55, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

yep. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:56, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes, yours comes up with "mobile edit, mobile web edit". Now, you see, I can understand the "mobile web edit" bit applying to using the mobile version of this site, but not the "mobile edit". - Sitush (talk) 19:57, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

A CU isn't going to do that, I very much doubt it meets the Checkuser Policy. But if anyone refuses to believe you have had connection problems and thinks you're playing some kind of game, the hell with them anyway. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:59, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Sure. You can guess who it might be but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. - Sitush (talk) 20:01, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

John Peter Grant

Thank you for the nice note. You're very welcome, though I'm not sure how much help I actually rendered. However I was glad to try. Take care — e. ripley\^talk 21:10, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Chalk and cheese

It is an odd experience being lectured by Americans on how the English language is used in Britain. I'm considering introducing some other fine expressions to WP discourse: mardyarse, nesh, go to foot of our stairs etc so that I can be instructed in their proper use by people with arsefromelbowitis. pablo 13:41, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Ecky thump! - Sitush (talk) 13:45, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Demick has long been a favourite of mine, although I think it might be very much a word of northern usage rather than national. There are plenty of demicks involved in the current shenanigans. We may also need to usurp the WP:NOTRIGHT essay ;) - Sitush (talk) 14:03, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Indeed. Happily Richerman is attempting to educate. pablo 15:02, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes, although those of a religious disposition might well consider that a case for St Jude. - Sitush (talk) 15:06, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

A Scotsman of my acquaintance had no idea what to "mither" meant before he came to Manchester. Richerman (talk) 15:55, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

@Richerman: I can believe that, although I've used it here when talking with US people and either they understand or were too polite to ask! Apropos the stuff below in this thread, I find it very difficult to lipread many Scots because there seems to be some genetic thing that causes a lot of them to have extremely thin upper lips. - Sitush (talk) 22:48, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

All my ancestors on both sides are Scottish so we could have a problem :-) Richerman (talk) 23:32, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

I had already worked that out. But you talk garbage anyway most of the time, so it probably wouldn't matter! Joke, honest! The system is very simple, should we meet again. (1) You ask me would I like a pint, and I shake your hand saying "Yes, please". (2) At some point later, someone says to me "It's your round", and I say "I'm sorry, I can't hear you". Works every time :) But, bugger it, I've just divulged the trade secret. It doesn't matter too much in this situation but I know some very wealthy people in the House of Lords etc and it would really piss me off if they said "it's your round" when they are getting umpteen hundred £ a day of taxpayers' money just to sign a register and then go away and do what they wish. All of them part of the Oxbridge old boy network, of course, which is something of which I don't take advantage. Which brings us to another obscure word - I am a muggins. - Sitush (talk) 01:39, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

0n an unrelated note ... didn't Amanda Smalls claim to come from/live in Arizona, or am I misremembering? pablo 16:33, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

No idea, sorry. I don't usually trawl through user pages. I'm not too happy about the IP editing as an IP but I guess the arbs will have checkusered given the potential for stacking. - Sitush (talk) 16:37, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

What is the antonym for misogynist? There must be one, surely? - Sitush (talk) 16:43, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

I've been wondering about that for ages and I've come to the conclusion there isn't one in the same way that there is no male equivalent of a slut. Prejudice and inequality can work both ways of course. Richerman (talk) 16:48, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm glad it is not just me that has been wondering. Perhaps something needs to be coined: if we went a bit Slavic-language then mrogynist might do. - Sitush (talk) 16:55, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Misandrist. If only there were some place you could look things like that up. – iridescent 17:05, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Iridescent. I was just about to dig around for my old copy of Roget, which I think contains ants as well as syns. - Sitush (talk) 17:08, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Philogynist. :) NebY (talk) 17:44, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Dangerous territory, that! Being a misogynist or a philogynist does not necessarily infer the other. Still, this tyro's language development is growing apace: two new words in a day. (I had actually come across misandry as a word before, but years ago.) - Sitush (talk) 18:03, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Isn't that philanderer? As in, many a philanderer is a secret misogynist? As opposed to philandrist, of course... NebY (talk) 18:41, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Well, if a philogynist is someone who admires women then one can be a philogynist without being a misogynist. Am I missing something here? - Sitush (talk) 18:58, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Oh, I took it that you wanted the antonym of misogynist as in opposite of hating - so I offered philogynist. But now I guess you want a different kind of opposite and I've totally lost the thread. :( NebY (talk) 19:56, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

A thought has just occurred to me. My brother became deaf in his early twenties, caused by meningitis. So he's a hearing person who can no longer hear, if you see what I mean. I have the impression though that you've always been deaf, and I wonder if you "hear" words in your head in the way that those of us yet to go deaf do. Feel free to ignore my question if you feel it's too intrusive, I won't mind, I was just curious. Eric Corbett 19:11, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

I was indeed born deaf and I do "hear" the words in my head. But I probably mispronounce quite a few of them. I can't think of an example right now but it is quite common for me to speak a word that I've used internally for years, only to be unsure of its pronunciation. A classic, from years gone by, was "Anti-poads" when it is of course "An-tip-o-dees". - Sitush (talk) 19:15, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

That's not unusual. My wife does that as well with words she's only ever seen in books, never heard spoken. For me, the cadence of the words supersedes even the grammar, which is why I persist with the arguably incorrect "You and I" rather than "You and me". Eric Corbett 19:44, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Sure, but it is much more common with me than with hearing people. I suspect that is because - to use the example above - people may have heard the word on TV/radio etc even if they have never pronounced it themselves. I cannot hear TV or radio or phone or YouTube videos etc. For someone who is profoundly deaf and was born that way, I have remarkably good speech (apparently) and that is why I'm used so much as a guinea-pig by researchers: they can test things out on me and get a response that utilises a huge vocabulary compared to that available topractically everyone else with my degree of deafness. Most of them are sign-language dependent and if they can speak at all then they lack intonation. I'm a freak, as I'm sure many of you think is the case in other ways! - Sitush (talk) 19:51, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

And, by the way, I never went to a lecture at university nor heard much of what went on in lessons at school. Just born with a decent brain and a desire to learn, I think. - Sitush (talk) 20:00, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Sorry to butt in here, but I was just checking back to see if I was replied to below. I'm hearing, but I'm semi-fluent in ASL. I taught myself at a young age and it's always fascinated me. Sitush have you heard of Amber Galloway? She's somewhat of a celebrity translator for music performers. Dusti^{*Let's talk!*} 20:03, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

No, I've not heard of Amber Galloway. I don't sign at all, aside from the Anglo-Saxon two-fingers type of thing that seemingly would give some editors here (male and female) the vapours. - Sitush (talk) 20:05, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

When my brother went deaf we all learned how to finger spell, until he got used to lip reading. It was much easier than writing everything down on bits of paper, which we had to do at first. Eric Corbett 20:14, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

I think it is a good thing, and I also think that finger-spelling pretty much crosses many national boundaries whereas "proper" sign does not. In fact, there are even dialects of sign language within this country despite BSL. I've just got a mental block about learning it, that's all. It's a long story. - Sitush (talk) 20:17, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

@Dusti: is there scope for an article on Galloway? I see she also calls herself Amber Galloway Gallego. People like her quite often are interviewed but a lot of Oz media is behind paywalls (courtesy of Murdoch, presumably). - Sitush (talk) 22:25, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

I think there is. Appears as though there's 35,000 hits on Google including some on MTV and a Interesting news story. I don't see how she wouldn't at least pass GNG, especially with a dozen TV appearances on talk shows and such? Dusti^{*Let's talk!*} 22:39, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Yeah but, like I said, a lot of it is paywalled. Because of that, this is not something that I can do but it does look like she would easily pass GNG. Perhaps someone with access will see this. - Sitush (talk) 02:47, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

I'll see what I can gather. I created a placeholder in my sandbox. Dusti^{*Let's talk!*} 02:51, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

BLP requires review!

Hi. One single purpose editor has added lot of unsourced content to Kolathur Mani and I request you to have a glance at the unsourced, puffery content. Thank you. -Rayabhari (talk) 14:50, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

I thought about reverting but neither version seems acceptable. The sourced version is just a series of criticisms - is he actually that bad? Dougweller (talk) 16:06, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Many sources mention him as that bad. He was repeatedly in news for terrorist funding / supplying explosives / aggressive speech / harbouring out-laws etc., many of them apparently or directly or in guise, for language issue.(?) Further, the images recently added looks like outright copy-vio. - Rayabhari (talk) 14:09, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

it's me Kristine

Does the category I created Category:People_from_the_Inuvik_Region make sense to you? Can you tell me if it should be deleted? Venustar84 (talk) 18:35, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

I responded to this question at User talk:CaroleHenson--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:52, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll look in later. - Sitush (talk) 22:54, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

No need to, she was banned from adding categories - so it's a moot point.--CaroleHenson (talk) 23:09, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Normally

I wouldn't edit other people's comments, but I have tweaked your "troublesome" priest to "turbulent".  pablo 15:26, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

It's fine. For someone with a couple of history degrees, I should know better than that. It is one of those quotes that I consistently get wrong. With quite a few of the committee deciding not to stand again, just perhaps they'll be prepared to tackle the god-king issue. In retrospect, I should perhaps have pinged the man himself but I'll leave that to the committee now, should they choose to take a look at it. - Sitush (talk) 15:32, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

I hope they do, it would be a terrible precedent if acolytes started to think (even more) that the way forward was to interpret JW's utterings and bring tribute of heads on platters to appease. pablo 15:42, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Weird science

Hm. We have a 100% success rate in landing something on a comet nucleus ca. 490 million kilometres from Earth but letters sent to me by my doctor, who is about 2 kilometres away, regularly go astray. I quite like astronomy but I'd rather know when my next hospital appointment is happening before the date has passed. - Sitush (talk) 22:14, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Talkback message from Tito Dutta

Hello, Sitush. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#.5BPlease_read.5D_Wikimedia_and_Right_to_Information.
Message added 23:20, 16 November 2014 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Tito☸Dutta 23:20, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

• The link was changed Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#Wikimedia_and_Right_to_Information Tito☸Dutta 17:11, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

• I read it yesterday, Tito, but couldn't really grasp what you were getting at (were you asking what info the WMF might be legally obliged to disclose about individual editors?). I'll take another look tomorrow. - Sitush (talk) 22:16, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Moving the discussion to a more appropriate venue

I have tried to post this to User:Bishonen/Clueless complaints about Sitush noticeboard but I see it is on hiatus. Regarding your comment:

I would be pleasantly surprised if you got your article space contributions above, say, 50% rather than the 24% or so that they are at present. When you get above the 80% mark, and that includes more than just tinkering with things, I'll treat you as my equal. Oh, was that a pig that just flew past my window?

In a word: no. Just as you are on strike Monday, I am on strike every day, since February 2013. My only exception to editing is to try to change the circumstances that lead to my retirement. I don't really feel like going into it any further than that, but if you are all that curious about something that most people would find boring and overly convoluted, there is a link on my talk page somewhere, and I have enabled the script that allows you to look at my month by month edit history as well.

Since you seem to thrive on caste warriors, perhaps I could interest you in a slightly used article about Buddhism, that is only slightly watched by Islamists and Hindus?....I have been looking for someone who can do something with the POV and COPYVIO issues, but it will be difficult to find someone with level of skill needed to handle it. Regards, —Neotarf (talk) 18:19, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

No sense buying a pig on a poke, this is what you would be getting into. Bodu Bala Sena It's much more stable than it was a year ago but it has been blanked and replaced several times with a copypasta text, that is most certainly COPYVIO. [2] [3] [4] From what I have been able to piece together, Sri Lanka has three main ethnic groups, the Buddhists who are in the majority, the Tamils, who are Hindu and politically aligned with India, and who seem to be in control of the article POV, and the Moslems, who are an emerging minority and whose edits have mostly consisted of drive-by vandalism on Friday afternoon, Asian time, although they have been quiet lately. OH, and google translate doesn't do Sinhalese language yet, so much for world peace. —Neotarf (talk) 18:46, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Gurjeshwar

FYI, WP:Sockpuppet_investigations/Gurjeshwar. Regards, kashmiri ^TALK 15:05, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Here we go again ... Thanks for that. Wouldn't surprise me if they are a returning sock from ages back but I'm not trawling the history for it. - Sitush (talk) 15:11, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Added User:Rana the warrior and User:49.202.60.236 to the stable. Seems the guy is a Wikipedia addict who can't survive 48h without editing. kashmiri ^TALK 23:21, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Raraya

Could you take a look, I have a feeling it will be deleted. Bgwhite (talk) 06:51, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

I've PRODed the thing. - Sitush (talk) 15:56, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Mr. Sitush :: BE Polite

'Mr Sitush, you are doing what you think right? Why? have you given any references that, why you are deleting other writer's content. You are reverting the stuff from various wiki pages including this, by saying no? This is not good way. You should present the concrete reasons before to revert.

Now complaining me as a puppet user. I have my own identity and forced myself to write on wiki after viewing your forceful editing on Gurjar. I have no time to argue with rigid writers like you.

There is lots of wiki writers whose work are really appreciable. But here the writers like you are not doing good work to improve Wikipedia. Nothing is going wrong as you are removing and reverting the contents from various wiki pages. I hope you will be able to understand that being a human you also can not be right every time as You do not own this wikipedia. Be polite and prove that you are doing in right way. BE Polite & more concern on text grammar & phrases rather than argue & reverting existing texts thanksRoyalGurjar (talk) 17:47, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Your comment

Next time you want to make a comment like that do it on my talk page. You took a kind sentiment from me and made it into some sort of fucking drama. I don't appreciate it. Chillum 03:54, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

You know that Eric doesn't appreciate your comments and is liable to react badly to them. You are now also informed (although I'm fairly sure that I've told you before) that I do not appreciate your comments either, so go away and stay away please. - Sitush (talk) 03:57, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

I open up to a person in an attempt to console them and you shit all over it. Consider for just one second that just because a person and I disagree that perhaps we can have common ground in some circumstances. How about you stay away from me and think about how you have acted? Chillum 04:00, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Piss off. - Sitush (talk) 04:01, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

And there was no need to follow up with a thank notification to me either. Are you completely bonkers? - Sitush (talk) 04:04, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Just happy the conversation is over. In respond to your request I am only slightly mad. If you want to talk to me further please use my talk page, I don't feel welcome here. Chillum 04:11, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Which bit of "piss off" did you not understand? A rhetorical question, of course. I've long thought you were a bit of a wind-up merchant but this is ridiculous. How the heck people like you get the bit is beyond me. - Sitush (talk) 04:13, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

I take it the "bonkers" bit was rhetorical as well :-) ~Adjwilley (talk) 04:45, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

It was. That is the only way to read it, given my earlier comment. I'm not Eric's protector but I'll do my bit to limit potential flashpoints where I can, and in my experience Chillum is a high risk in that regard. Doubtless, plenty of people will disagree with me but Eric can tell me himself if he so wishes. If Chillum wants to make up with Eric, it would probably make more sense to do so by email rather than chance it on-wiki. - Sitush (talk) 04:55, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Admittedly I already knew your question was rhetorical, as was mine. Heh. ~Adjwilley (talk) 05:22, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Ha! Ever-decreasing circles. - Sitush (talk) 05:23, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Kannada Language

There is a new section opened in Kannada page and some vandals are removing entirely sourced section (please verify all links) so that I reach 3 reverts and block me. Also talk page contains a huge number of anti-kannada and pro-tamil comments and are derogatory and racist in nature. I request a protection tag for the article and also cleanup of talk page. If these things are not taken care of it may amount to cyber crime and racism and wikipedia may well reach Indian police. Please take care Karnāṭa dēśamaṁ (talk) 11:16, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

It seems likely that you will be blocked before much longer. Assuming that is not an indefinite block, please take the time to read some of our policies and guidelines. Among the relevant ones are WP:CONSENSUS, WP:NPOV, WP:RS and WP:3RR. The essay at WP:BRD is also very relevant.

However, my suspicion is that you may have already fallen foul of our policy regarding legal threats. Are you actually saying above that you will take it to the police unless you get your way? I hope not. - Sitush (talk) 12:44, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

For the "will", see [5]. I've taken it to ANI. Voceditenore (talk) 12:59, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Ah, damn. I suppose that they might back down after reading WP:NLT. And a pig just flew across my window ... - Sitush (talk) 13:01, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Karnāṭa dēśamaṁ: Out of sheer curiosity, are you arguing that a crime has been committed on Indian soil? What do you think Indian police will do to Wikimedia Foundation? Send it a chalaan by post? Sorry I can't keep serious, lol. kashmiri ^TALK 12:55, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Sigh. That's three so far today. I must be infectious or something. If you don't want to be blocked, it might be best to avoid me until 23:59 GMT. I've got the feeling that there are going to be at least two more, maybe four. - Sitush (talk) 13:41, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

About Bargurjar

Hey Sitush (whoever you are)!!!

I have found that you are deleting the real comments and creating myths about this topic.

kindly stay honest and read the real scriptures without having a myth of fabricated and self-designed books. We have a legal work that has done years ago and you are deleting the ancestors comments and their real histories.

Why don't you say the origin of your ancestors from where they came from, so just start with about 500 years ago at least. So the world with come to know the origin of Jaat/Gujjar. Sitush describe your identity of your ancient ancestors first then come to discuss with this topic.

You may have expertise in all sections but the truth is truth whatever you may change or delete to hide the originality.

Be honest...!! Jay Hind... M Singh 18:37, 19 November 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mukt ash (talk • contribs) 18:40, 19 November 2014‎

Ancestry means nothing around here. Only reliable sources.Charles (talk) 19:34, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

[page stalker] Mukt ash, You may want to look at the edit summary. Your comments don't synch up with the reasons for the edits: content not covered by the source, Wikipedia:BLP violations, etc.--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:50, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

I am in fights on at least two articles at the moment, one being Bhargava and the other Bargujar. Obviously, I'm in the right in both cases. Just another day in wacko-land, then. - Sitush (talk) 20:17, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Oops, I forgot: it is three, not two. Gurjar has also blown up (yet again). And with the disappearance of admins who used once to help out with the excesses (Boing! said Zebedee, Qwryxian, SpacemanSpiff, PMDrive1061 etc), this is getting more and more difficult to keep in order. - Sitush (talk) 20:47, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Just FYI, the recently reverted stuff here was an attempt to draw my attention to this as a source. The Amazon blurb begins "India Treasures is a monumental work of fiction covering the sweep of Indian history." A bit like a lot of our caste articles, then. - Sitush (talk) 21:41, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Mukt ash is blocked as sock, but who was the master? Bladesmulti (talk) 04:21, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Blocked for meatpuppetry, I think. Ponyo did it and is a checkuser, so we may never find out. There were several IPs knocking around before the semi was put in place, so perhaps they decided to register and rack up a few edits to circumvent the protection. - Sitush (talk) 04:24, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

No master, the account just reeked of meat. Anyone who's first edits are to your talk page yammering on about truth and honesty and using "we" can safely be assumed to be socking or canvassed. --Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 18:10, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Special treatment for groups or just one.

It's not workable, because a list of editors for such special treatment would need to be setup & there'd be an endless dispute over who belongs on that list. The community won't accept special treatment for just one editor. If a group of editors or one editor is already getting special treatment? codifying it will only cause trouble, as opponents will jump up & holler "we knew it, we knew it". GoodDay (talk) 17:51, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm interested in knowing where you buy your crystal balls from, as I could do with a new one. Eric Corbett 17:55, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I have the only one. Anyways, here's hoping that nobody gets banned over that GGTF stuff. IMHO, bans should be limited to vandals and/or cronic socks :) GoodDay (talk) 18:24, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

There isn't much point in telling me here, is there? I doubt many (if any) arbs watch this page and without elucidation your comment will just be treated as a throwaway remark, just as the unsupported, illogical hyperbole of Djembayz etc will be so treated. - Sitush (talk) 17:59, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Indeed, arbitrators will either take note of my response to Adjwilly's proposal or entirely ignore it. GoodDay (talk) 18:06, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Rajput

Sir, a half-truth article is a deceptive article. Why not presenters of the statement so removed present a fact in its favor .The whole article puts history in totally wrong and unverifiable way. Please tell user Rajput334 to provide a secondary source rather than using a tertiary source for whole article. He is trying to surpass other contributors. Moreover, as per Policies of Wikipedia, it should be verifiable, which it is not. Truth should be our priority.John811jd (talk) 14:49, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Sir, a half-truth article is a deceptive article. I have provide sources, Please cite themJohn811jd (talk) 14:22, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

I have taken the issue to ANI. - Sitush (talk) 16:14, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

You've got mail!

Hello, Sitush. Please check your email; you've got mail!
Message added 18:04, 22 November 2014 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Tutelary (talk) 18:04, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the discretion. That was the last round of IAC nonsense, ending India Against Corruption 0 vs me/WP/WMF 1. - Sitush (talk) 18:10, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Your recent good-faith edits to Satti

I've noticed that with this edit you reverted several previous edits, including my addition of three categories to the Satti article. You then, with this edit, re-added one of these three categories to the article, clearly showing that at least some portion of the reverted material was reverted needlessly. Please consider reading Wikipedia:Revert only when necessary#Alternatives to reverting before making any further reverts. Thank you. Iaritmioawp (talk) 23:43, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

I think I know what I'm doing, thanks. I've been here a while now. - Sitush (talk) 00:14, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Iaritmioawp I could have reverted four different people, who had contributed numerous edits, or I could have taken it back to the last good version and then reinstated the one valid category of your three. The first takes four edits and the latter takes two but in both cases the summary would have been the same: H. A. Rose is not a reliable source. - Sitush (talk) 00:30, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

The optimal way of handling the situation would've been to manually restore what was in your opinion "the last good version," leaving the correct bits intact; that way, one edit would've sufficed, and your actions wouldn't have resulted in other users' needlessly receiving a revert notification. Iaritmioawp (talk) 00:49, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Nope. That would have meant a lot of unpicking. Have you any idea how many articles I have watchlisted and how many of them get bad edits every day? Although, tbh, I wasn't even aware that using Twinkle's "restore" function (as opposed to "revert") resulted in every person getting pinged - are you sure about that? - Sitush (talk) 00:52, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

You reverted a number of edits, and then restored a portion of the reverted content without properly attributing the original source of that content. In this particular case, that content was merely a category and thus arguably doesn't need attribution, but what I find worrying is that in the future you may inadvertently do it to a more significant chunk of text thus needlessly aggravating another editor. Whenever there's any salvageable content whatsoever in any of the edits you consider reverting, it is advisable to edit out the "bad" content manually instead of using the "undo" button. As for pinging, I cannot speak for everyone whose edits were reverted, but I assure you that I did, in fact, receive a notification of your revert. Please understand that I did not come here to complain; I came here to offer advice which I think you could benefit from. If you believe my advice is unneeded, feel free to ignore it, but I would ask that you at least take what I said into consideration. Thank you. Iaritmioawp (talk) 01:37, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

@Drmies and Bishonen: do I need to modify my behaviour of the last seven years or so? I've gone 130k edits without anyone complaining but, hey, maybe I'm wrong? - Sitush (talk) 01:39, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Well, Category:Punjabi tribes is redundant, since Category:Rajput clans of Punjab is already listed in that category. Category:Muree hill tribes, I don't know: there's no Muree and no hills in the article. For the rest, I find the verbosity and tone here a bit patronizing, esp. coming from someone with so few edits. It is possible that they have a theoretical point, which could have been made if the message had been less wordy and more collegial in tone. Moving right along, Drmies (talk) 04:08, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Bearing in mind that Iaritmioawp is linking to an essay, I am inclined just to carry on as before. I've gone this far without even being aware of the thing and without anyone ever mentioning it to me, so it sounds more like a pet peeve than anything with real weight behind it. The attribution is, of course, always there in the history because the edits were on the same article, not a copy from one article to another. So, thanks Iaritmioawp but no thanks: I'll stick with my own judgment here.- Sitush (talk) 04:21, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) What Sitush has done is the normal way of salvaging any useful information. As it consumes less time. @Iaritmioawp: I don't think you need to feel aggravated. Content matters above anything else. You can go to your preferences and turn off the notifications for reverts. I am surprised that you even brought this up.--Vigyani_talk^{ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} 05:12, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Since I was pinged (without being aggravated), I'll say my piece, even though I see Vigyani already made my point, Iaritmioawp : that if you don't want to be notified about reverts, whole or partial, you can turn off that function in your preferences. Reverting the whole and then restoring the good bits by hand is a normal procedure because it's often the simplest way to partially revert. I have done it many times. In a more complex situation, it can be the only practicable situation, and there is nothing "optimal" about doing it in a more complicated way. "Needlessly receiving a revert notification" is not usually thought onerous. On the contrary: that way, you're informed that you were reverted (partially), which people generally will want to know about. The Echo notification system is supposed to be useful, not aggravating. Again, you can turn off the parts of it you don't like. Bishonen | talk 05:34, 23 November 2014 (UTC).

I'm not sure why you pinged me; there isn't much more to say here. I didn't come to Sitush's talk page to complain. I didn't come here to criticize his/her edits. I didn't come here because the notification I got aggravated me—which it most certainly didn't. I didn't even come here to talk. The one and only reason why I came here was to offer a friendly suggestion to a fellow Wikipedia editor. No response was expected beyond perhaps a simple "I'll take a look at the essay, thanks." It didn't quite work out that way, but all one can do is one's best. I'll be moving on now if you don't mind.

As for the two now-removed categories, since Drmies was kind enough to share his/her thoughts on the issue, I thought I'd reciprocate; the Muree hill tribes category was suitable for the old version of the article I categorized, which contained the now-removed content mentioning the Muree Hills, and the "redundant" Punjabi tribes category is actually not redundant as per WP:DUPCAT—which is quite an interesting read if anyone's interested. It was a pleasure talking to you; we'll have to do it again some time. Iaritmioawp (talk) 06:47, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

@Iaritmioawp: Ha! Now you are patronising three of us. Don't bother with "we'll have to do it again some time", please. Just stay away until you learn some manners. - Sitush (talk) 10:55, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

It never was my intention to patronize anybody; I genuinely enjoyed our little conversation, and I hope it wasn't the last one. As for "staying away," from your talk page I presume, I'd be happy to accommodate your request provided you indulge mine and kindly not ping me any more. Thank you. Iaritmioawp (talk) 11:16, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

You have been caught socking and also generally acting twattishly before. My prediction is that you will not be around here for much longer unless you change your style. - Sitush (talk) 11:18, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks to @J3Mrs, Richerman, Eric Corbett, and RexxS: setting the world to rights and giving me a sense of perspective. - Sitush (talk) 18:33, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Two things

Nice to see you back, and shame on me for not noticing you'd taken the bait and been goaded into making a nice WSB article, complete with photos! P Pat would be proud. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:46, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. I need to dig through the Records for the William Stone Building refurbishment stuff. That boatie book I mentioned and which I needed to find is The Oxford and Cambridge Boat Race by Christopher Dodd (Stanley Paul: 2007). You've probably already got it. - Sitush (talk) 21:50, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

@The Rambling Man: ... but if you have not, then obviously I'm happy to help. - Sitush (talk) 00:57, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

I've got the first edition of that book, what was it we were talking about? Memory fail.... The Rambling Man (talk) 07:23, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

A thread on Sitush's talk page that is civil, no ANI talk, people being kind and helping each other. This just can't happen. The Rambling Man, I'm taking you to ANI for failure to take Sitush to ANI. Bgwhite (talk) 08:59, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Don't worry, I'm sure it won't be long before someone fabricates a bunch of nonsense to get me back there for another waste of bytes! The Rambling Man (talk) 09:04, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Doubtless! - Sitush (talk) 18:33, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Sitush, what did you want the book for? I'm struggling to remember... The Rambling Man (talk) 19:02, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

T'other way round, TRM. You are on your mission to get the boat race articles up to a very high standard & I mentioned that I had a book lying around somewhere that might be of use. As it now turns out, I've found that book among my 7,000 or so ... but you've already got it. As an aside, I'm vaguely toying with perhaps doing an article that goes into some depth re: the buildings at Peterhouse, the principle snag being that at present I would be very reliant on the Record as a source. The other big snag might be COI, although I probably would dispute that. - Sitush (talk) 19:09, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Ok, understood. Phew. I'm currently sitting on my sofa with Drinkwater to the left of me, Burnell in front, Dodd is at work, but the Livingston brothers' account of the 2003 race is to my right.... As for the Record and COI, I agree, it's not an issue. If you can find the Record in question, (I have a few, but not many....) then it's a no-brainer to use it. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:14, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

I've got all of the Peterhouse Annual Records from ca. 1985 and perhaps a few before then. Somewhere! - Sitush (talk) 19:17, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Sitush, Bgwhite, well whaddya know, I'm dragged back to the circus yet again! And without even the courtesy to let me know!! Standards really are dropping.... The Rambling Man (talk) 06:00, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

I was going to ping you, but I was afraid you would get a bit snarky again. It would be easier for we onlookers if that didn't happen! Johnuniq (talk) 06:20, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

The place seems to be falling apart at the moment. I wasn't joking when I said that getting William Beach Thomas through FAC might be the point where I rethink yet again. - Sitush (talk) 06:26, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Endorsement request

Please see this and if please possible endorse it User_talk:Titodutta#WMIN_Infrastructure_Scholarship_endorsements --Tito☸Dutta 11:50, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Will look properly when I return from a short trip out, Tito. Coincidentally, I'd just sent you an email regarding an earlier query of yours that, on the face of it, might relate to this issue. - Sitush (talk) 12:16, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Aam Aadmi Party

Lots of activity there this morning, JamesBWatson just protected it. Judging from Diff of Aam Aadmi Party (54 intermediate revisions) it should be OK, shouldn't it? Best, Sam ^Sing! 11:16, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Left a note on JBW's talk, since both you and someone else had commented there. - Sitush (talk) 12:17, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Jimbo

@Jimbo:, I've completely lost track of whether I am persona non grata on your talk page or not, so I'll say it here to be on the safe side.

Regarding your response here, it is certainly convenient to "not know enough about the specific details" when you are asked about an obviously racist etc attack made on people some of whom you have repeatedly and without foundation attacked yourself on your talk page. Your silence regarding the integrity of ArbCom is also deafening, of course.

I can understand you not wanting to read through the voluminous ArbCom case pages relating to this matter but it may well be time to shut down your page, comments regarding which have been a part of the case. Like it or not, you are perceived both within and without Wikipedia as being somewhat different from other members of the community: yours is a unique position and you are far too frequently abusing that with your remarks. Perhaps your best response sometimes would be to say nothing? - Sitush (talk) 22:07, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Interesting, in several ways. However, I wonder whether {{ping|Jimbo}} would work. Of course, it redirects to User:Jimbo Wales, but is mere redirect enough to make a "ping" work? The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 12:28, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

My mistake. Too late now, I guess, but if the pattern continues he'll do it again before too long. - Sitush (talk) 12:30, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Well, my post above should have pinged him, since I linked to his user page, so if he wants to reply to you, he can. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 12:54, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Would appreciate your opinion

Hi Sitush. When you have a moment to spare, would you mind awfully taking a brief look at Nisha JamVwal? I've just declined a CSD on it and done a bit of tidying - my gut feeling is that she might just scrape notability, despite the conclusions of the previous AFD discussion (the current sources are significantly different, which means it can't really be deleted under G4). I'd like to hear your thoughts, though: would you consider this salvagable, or do you think it would be worth a second AFD? Cheers, Yunshui ^雲_水 14:51, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

User:Yunshui It will be good as a stub. I don't see any point in writing articles with the citations like wikipedia, youtube, and so many others that we avoid. Bladesmulti (talk) 15:13, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

The YouTube sources gave me serious pause when I was fixing some of the formatting; I very nearly deleted them all out of hand. To be perfectly honest, I've no real interest in doing anything more with the article myself; if you (or anyone else) want to stub it, fix it or slap it with tags, be my guest. Yunshui ^雲_水 15:16, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

And good job on declining CSD. Some people just don't care about Wikipedia:BEFORE when they are tagging for deletion. Bladesmulti (talk) 15:18, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

I can't do anything with that. Far too much YouTube stuff, none of which I can hear. My gut feeling is that she is probably not actually notable, with most of the stuff being passing mentions etc, but someone else will have to sort it out, sorry. - Sitush (talk) 16:57, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

I've popped it into AFD after reviewing the sources. Yunshui ^雲_水 12:24, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know, Yunshui. - Sitush (talk) 12:30, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

My change at JAT PEOPLE

Please let me know why did you revert my changes at Jat. Thanks. Vdhillon (talk)

Sitush is a busy fellow; allow me to step in. I can't speak for Sitush, but here's why I'd have done what he did, remove:

• Dhar (guerrilla_warfare) audacious daring tactic of Jat and Marathas warriors
• Hinduism

In the first, I have trouble imagining an audacious tactic that isn't daring, or a daring tactic that isn't audacious. So you can cut one or other of these two adjectives. Actually you can and should cut both, as either is mere editorializing. The link takes the reader to "Dhar (guerrilla warfare)" a wretched article whose sole plus is its unintended humor ("with minimum loss to the attacker who is numerologically much lower in number", etc).

As for the second, all you need do is link the word "Hindu" or "Hinduism" to the article Hinduism. -- Hoary (talk) 09:08, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

PS I have made the article less obviously terrible. The description of "Dhar (guerrilla warfare)" now reads "Dhar is a tactic of sudden attacks in asymmetric warfare to ensure maximum benefit with minimum loss to the less numerous attacker". This gives me the impression that "Dhar" just means "guer(r)illa warfare". -- Hoary (talk) 09:23, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Hoary. If I could be bothered, I'd probably send that article to AfD as WP:DICDEF. - Sitush (talk) 09:25, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

@Hoary thanks for the explanation and edits buddy. What is LESS OBVIOUSLY TERRIBLE? For example, "I have enhanced the article' would be more productive and encouraging. Please be kind to people as there is no need for unwanted sarcasm and passive aggression. We all must do our part in creating a POSITIVE PSYCHOLOGICAL FOOTPRINT. Thanks. Vdhillon (talk)

Ha!

And with this rubbish, I see no further purpose here. - Sitush (talk) 18:35, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Erm . . . the aqueduct? Sorry, I mean such things as helping to defend India-related articles against boosterism, invention, trivia, myth, plagiarism, misreading, and the other miscellaneous sillinesses that are endemic in such articles. This sounds like an excellent purpose to me. The task probably requires not a mere "force" but a battalion of Situshes, but one Sitush is a good start. -- Hoary (talk) 00:23, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

I understand your point but none of that stuff needs me. Some other idiot (yes, I am one in this sense) can take it on, although they will most likely will suffer the same fate, ie: massive weariness in the face of people who simply do not understand what the primary purpose of this project is supposed to be and who seem intent to impose a form of cultural imperialism that is in fact not dis-similar from what they have been claiming is my approach. You probably do not realise but this situation comes on top on some highly racist comments that Jimbo Wales seems to have brushed off and which relate directly to both the current fracas and to my long term involvement here: I am, apparently, some sort of apologist for the British Raj, have upset "1.2 bn Indians" with my nonsense etc. That is bollocks, of course, but there are too many, too ignorant people around who simply like to take a pop without even knowing either British imperial or Indian history. Alas, a fair amount of the very best evidence for this is off-wiki.

Of course, I really don't care that much what Jimbo says about me but he needs to learn that his best position is either to engage fully or not at all, rather than seemingly cherrypick his moments around his holidays. - Sitush (talk) 02:30, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

New FoF and Remedy involving you at GGTF PD

Looks like you've already seen, but there are new FoF/Remedies up involving you at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gender_Gap_Task_Force/Proposed_decision. You may wish to comment on them. Regards, NativeForeigner ^Talk 02:23, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

I've seen it, thanks, as you suggest. I am not seeing much indication that the committee members have seen my responses. This is an absolutely shocking situation and it doesn't take a lot of effort to work out how it has happened. I've spent the last hour or so wading through a ton of emails relating to it and now I am off to bed. - Sitush (talk) 02:33, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

ROIS

Any thoughts regarding the proposal? No worries, if you don't want to get involved, however, as I see it that article is a key to develop a large net of articles which have stagnated in the era when WP editors used to whole sale copy from the 1911 Britannica (BTW, the ODNB references you nuked were not meant to be citations rather to fix the mess using a standard biograph etc.) Solomon7968 13:58, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Replied at the article talk. - Sitush (talk) 02:43, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Nisha JamVwal again

They have returned. But I still think the subject is far from notability. Jim Carter (from public cyber) 08:11, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Cheema Page

Hi Sitush, On the Cheema page you keep undoing my edit because you say I have not added to prove that Cheemas are Jats and that many if not most Cheemas are Muslim. First lets prove that Cheemas are Jats even if they belong to the Sikh faith, (some also show Cheemas Muslim faith):

• The Punjab Bloodied By Ishtiaq Ahmed pg.285
• The Sansis of Punjab: A Gypsy and De-notified Tribe of Rajput Origin, by Sher Singh "Sher."

Quote:"the Man, the Cheema and many other castes of the Jats were Sikh as well as Muslim, and sometimes they were found living in the same village. After partition, the Sikh Jats of these castes came to India whereas their Mohammadan caste- brothers are now living in the West Punjab."

• East of Indus: My Memories of Old Punjab By Gurnam Singh Sidhu Brard pg. 264
• India's communities, Volume 1; Volume 5 by Kumar Suresh Singh, Anthropological Survey of India pg.1371

Now Muslim and Pakistani Jat (although their is enough evidence above):

• Across the Wagah: An Indian's Sojourn in Pakistan By Maneesha Tikekar pg.253
• The Pakistan People's Party: Rise to Power by Philip Edward Jones pg. 351 & 397
• 1998 district census report of Mandi Bahauddin Population Census Organisation, Statistics Division, Govt. of Pakistan, 2000 pg.5
• KASHMIR - THE UNTOLD STORY By Christopher Snedden Index
• From Punjab to New York: A Reflective Journey By Surjit Singh Pg. 29
• "All-Jatt contest in Wazirabad". Dawn. Pakistan. 12 August 2005. Retrieved 14 August 2014.
• Invasion of the Genes Genetic Heritage of India By B. S. Ahloowalia pg.65
• Contemporary Forms of Slavery in Pakistan by Human Rights Watch Pg. 42
• Census of India, 1901, Volume 17, Part 1 By India. Census Commissioner, Edward Albert Gait p. 243

--Thank You Nawabmalhi (talk) 22:39, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

Edit warring and discretionary sanctions

Please carefully read this information:

The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.

This message is informational only and does not imply misconduct regarding your contributions to date.

Dear Sri Situshji, please note carefully I am telling 2 you with emphasis so you can understand it, Native language in the lead "There is ultimately no consensus about which language to use, but I see a fair bit of support in regards to IPA and pronunciation and would think this would help normal readers, so I am going to say that Using IPA to clarify pronunciation is the consensus of this discussion, all other sections do not meet a level of consensus needed to pass. -- DQ (ʞlɐʇ) 09:38, 26 January 2012 (UTC) " Not tata (talk) 03:26, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Look, you are very obviously not a new user here, despite recent registration. You have also been editing pages that have been targeted by people involved with the India Against Corruption sock/meatfarm. I raised the issue regarding scripts here. - Sitush (talk) 03:28, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

And now you have reverted me again, despite being warned of edit warring, despite me quoting the guideline and despite me mentioning the issue at Talk:Aam Aadmi Party? I am off to bed: make good use of what I am pretty sure will be your block by reading WP:INDICSCRIPT. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 03:33, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Interactions at GGTF closed

This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above. The following remedies have been enacted:

1. Editors topic banned by the Committee under this remedy are prohibited on the English Wikipedia from: (i) editing the pages of the Gender Gap Task Force; (ii) discussing the gender disparity among Wikipedians; and (iii) participating in any process broadly construed to do with these topics. An uninvolved admin may remove any comments that breach this remedy, and impose blocks as necessary. The Committee's standard provisions on enforcement of arbitration provisions and appeals and modifications of arbitration enforcements apply.
2. Carolmooredc (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is indefinitely topic banned from the Gender gap topic.
3. For her actions discussed in this case, Carolmooredc is indefinitely banned from the English Language Wikipedia. She may request reconsideration of the ban twelve months after the enactment of this remedy, and every twelve months thereafter.
4. Eric Corbett (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is indefinitely topic banned from the Gender gap topic.
5. Eric Corbett agrees to a restriction prohibiting him from shouting at, swearing at, insulting and/or belittling other editors. The restriction comes into immediate effect on the passing of this motion.

   If Eric Corbett finds himself tempted to engage in prohibited conduct, he is to disengage and either let the matter drop or refer it to another editor to resolve.

   If however, in the opinion of an uninvolved administrator, Eric Corbett does engage in prohibited conduct, he may be blocked. The first two such blocks shall be of 72 hours duration, increasing thereafter for each subsequent breach to one week, one month, and three months. Any blocks under this provision are arbitration enforcement actions and may only be reviewed or appealed at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard. Should a fifth block (three months) prove necessary, the blocking administrator must notify the Arbitration Committee of the block via a Request for Clarification and Amendment so that the remedy may be reviewed.

   The enforcing administrator may also at their discretion fully protect Eric Corbett's talk page for the duration of the block.

   Nothing in this remedy prevents enforcement of policy by uninvolved administrators in the usual way.

6. Neotarf (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is indefinitely topic banned from the Gender gap topic. Neotarf is also warned that complaints about usernames should be made through appropriate channels and that further accusations, as well as unnecessary antagonism, may result in sanctions.
7. For their actions discussed in this case, and in particular for adopting a consistently hostile attitude to other contributors, Neotarf is indefinitely banned from the English Wikipedia. They may request reconsideration of the ban twelve months after the enactment of this remedy, and every twelve months thereafter.
8. Sitush (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is warned not to create articles regarding editors he is in dispute with.
9. Sitush and Carolmooredc are indefinitely prohibited from interacting with, or commenting on, each other anywhere on Wikipedia (subject to the ordinary exceptions).
10. SPECIFICO (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)'s actions regarding Carolmooredc have led to a 1-way interaction ban imposed by the community following a noticeboard discussion. [6]
11. Two kinds of pork (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is indefinitely topic banned from the Gender gap topic.
12. Standard discretionary sanctions are authorized for pages relating to the Gender gap task force. The availability of sanctions is not intended to prevent free and candid discussion on these pages, but sanctions should be imposed if an editor severely or persistently disrupts the discussion.

For the Arbitration Committee, Ks0stm ^{(T•C•G•E)} 08:45, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Discuss this

Gayen

Hey, Sitush. I was wondering what was wrong with the Bengali and Sanskrit spellings of Gayen. Vishwajeet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by VishwajeetGain (talk • contribs)

@VishwajeetGain: Please see WP:INDICSCRIPT: "There is community consensus that the lead sentence of an article should not contain any regional or Indic language script." --NeilN ^{talk to me} 15:00, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Book as reference

is not a reliable source. Could you explain me about this? I didn't get it? I've provided another reference, kindly check out if its ok.--Vin09 (talk) 07:14, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

It has long been the consensus on Wikipedia that the so-called ethnographies of Raj writers such as Edgar Thurston are not reliable sources. I really need to sort out a boilerplate section at User:Sitush/Common that explains the various reasons why this is so but, for starters, would you really trust someone who was classifying people by comparing the length of their noses and the colour of their skin? - Sitush (talk) 12:22, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

IAC sock again

@Bgwhite and Bishonen: I've no idea which of you would like first dibs but Not tata (talk · contribs) is another India Against Corruption sock. At least one edit probably needs a revdel even though it is pure made-up nonsense. - Sitush (talk) 12:02, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

I have just reverted the edit in question. Anyone who knows me reasonably well would realise that the statement made in the off-wiki link cannot possibly be correct. I'd suggested that this was a sock a day or two ago, after watching their antics for the preceding 24 hours, but it is obvious now. - Sitush (talk) 12:14, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Salvio giuliano has blocked (thanks). I still think that reverted edit needs a revdel - the linked off-wiki accusation is complete nonsense. They're spouting their fantastical stories on Citizendium and WPO now also, so perhaps we'll start seeing links from here to those in due course. - Sitush (talk) 12:45, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Now operating as 201.242.38.125 (talk · contribs) - Sitush (talk) 13:09, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

And as 49.207.76.167 (talk · contribs) - Sitush (talk) 13:15, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

FA congratulations

Just a quick note to congratulate you on the promotion of William Beach Thomas to FA status recently. If you would like to see this (or any other FA) appear as "Today's featured article" soon (either on a particular date or on any available date), please nominate it at the requests page. If you'd like to see an FA appear on a particular date in the next year or so, please add it to the "pending" list. In the absence of a request, the article may end up being picked at any time (although with about 1,287 articles waiting their turn at present, there's no telling how long – or short! – the wait might be). If you'd got any TFA-related questions or problems, please let me know. Bencherlite^Talk 10:38, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Like Nice work!--Mark Miller (talk) 11:04, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. There is credit due elsewhere. Most notably to Eric Corbett, without whom the thing would not have crossed the finishing line. - Sitush (talk) 13:14, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

A request

Hi Sitush, I'm sorry to ask this, but I saw you post on GGTF today, and I think it is not a good idea for you to do that. I realize that the ArbCom didn't topic ban you, but I hope you'll agree that it would be better if you were to observe a voluntary withdrawal. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 18:40, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Won't happen. If I do something wrong, you have a recourse. - Sitush (talk) 18:42, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

I do have recourse. I can go to ArbCom, AE or AN/I to request a topic ban, i.e. dredge it all up again, which is the last thing I want to do. What you did to Carol was unpleasant, and you were yourself were under enormous pressure at the time because someone else was threatening you. So the whole thing was a horrible dynamic of stressed people not behaving the way they would if not stressed. I would really like to draw a line under it as far as GGTF is concerned, but I don't think that's going to be possible if you keep posting there, especially voicing the same issues as before. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 21:04, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

I said you have a recourse. Now back off, please, with all these dubious allegations. It is not a closed group, I've said nothing wrong and indeed people have agreed even today. - Sitush (talk) 21:07, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Sitush, I want to apologize for what I wrote above, and withdraw it. I have no right to ask that, and the whole point of moving forward is to let wounds heal. (Also, re-reading what I wrote, it comes across as sharp. I wasn't feeling that when I wrote it, but I expressed it badly, in addition to the fact that I shouldn't have written it at all). So, even though you need no invitation from me, you're very welcome at GGTF.

Also, I want to add my best wishes on the addition of the star to William Beach Thomas. I've just read it and found it very interesting, and I know how much work goes into FAs, so congratulations on its promotion. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 13:05, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

I was short-tempered, too, so it is apologies all round. I'm not going to be spending oodles of time at GGTF but it is on my watchlist and I may comment occasionally.

WBT was a doddle compared to your FGM article but thanks for the appreciation. My interest is mainly in article content: we've got > 4.5 million articles and I'd guess > 4 million of them are pretty woeful. - Sitush (talk) 13:12, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Sitush, that's kind of you. I've always been the same re: content. I've mostly been happiest when writing articles (though "happy" isn't quite the right word!). It's really satisfying to produce something decent that people will read, and I've learned a lot over the years watching how other editors put it together. Wikipedia is actually an amazing place. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 13:53, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Kashyap

Hello,

I feel helpless. Wikipedia is the best source for any layman on a topic.And it is heartening to see ambiguous articles, wrong information and nessages spread through it. I would be more happy if the article is completely removed rather than spreading wrong information.The article, I do not know who wrote it or how it was posted on wikipedia.But, its wrong. "The Kashyap are a caste in India, sometimes referred to as a subcaste of boatmen.[1]-Its not a sub caste of boatmen.Some people were fishermen and possibly used boats.

The All-India Kashyap Rajput Mahasabha was a pressure group established in the period immediately preceding the 1941 census of British India to achieve recognition from the census authorities that the caste be recorded as Kashyap Rajput rather than by any other name.[2]-This is correct

Communities that are related to the Kashyap by occupation in Uttar Pradesh include the Batham, Bind, Bhar, Dhimar, Dhinwar, Dhewar, Gariya, Gaur, Godia, Gond, Guria, Jhimar, Jhir, Jhinwar, Jhiwar, Kahar, Keot, Kewat, Kharwar, Khairwar, Kumhar, Machua, Majhi, Majhwar, Mallah, Nishad, Prajapati, Rajbhar, Riakwar, Tura, Turah, Turaha, Tureha and Turaiha. There were proposals in 2013 that some or all of these communities in the state should be reclassified as Scheduled Castes under India's system of positive discrimination; this would have involved declassifying them from the Other Backwards Class category.[1] Whether or not this would happen was a significant issue in the campaign for the 2014 Indian general election.[3]

Uttar Pradesh is a poor state. People do all sorts of petty jobs there.Why an article on wikipedia mentions only about Uttar Pradesh.Very strange.Gaur were herders,Prajapati and Kumhar were potters.And if there were proposals to disgrace a section of society by some corrupt Uttar Pradesh politicians.Why do you have to mention it on wikipedia, a source of knowledge.It is humiliating. Shallow, unclear information being posted.Cant you just simply remove that line. Greatvirgo

@Greatvirgo:, this should really be discussed at the article talk page, not here. However, I've just reviewed the source for the boatmen statement and I agree that it is a bit confusing. I'm happy to remove that bit but someone else may revert me.

As for the rest, the problem is really that we need sources for the article. We can only write things based on what reliable sources say and, yes, that can sometimes perhaps seem to mean that some aspects are not mentioned at all. There really isn't much that we can do about this as a general principle but I would encourage you to look around for information that we could use in that article. If in doubt, mention the books/newspapers etc at Talk:Kashyap (caste) and wait for people to respond. I, for one, have that on my watchlist and so will see anything that you might say. - Sitush (talk) 19:07, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Raghav (surname)

I reverted in Bargujar; searching Google for strings in the reverted additions led me to both Old Kingdom of Bargujars, an article by the same user, and Raghav (surname). In the latter I'm inclined to restore this previous revision and discard the rest as coat-racking. It appears to have been copy-pasted from several on-line sources. Would that be a fair call? Sam ^Sing! 19:39, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

The puffery relating to this community has gone on for years, as has that relating to many other communities of India. If there is a {{unreferenced}} or {{refimprove}} tag on such an article and it has been there for, say, four months, I'd remove everything that is not sourced. Almost always, the content comes from either oral history (alas, not acceptable here) or via Raj ethnographies etc (also not acceptable here, and often thankfully so). Any large blocks of unsourced text that are less than three months old should ideally be checked for copyvio issues and sometimes can be rescued if you're prepared to put the effort in. Of course, in theory we are supposed to put the effort in but, bearing in mind the sort of sources where such info tends to come from, the occasions when it is a good use of time tend to be few and far between and the real burden lies on the person who added it.

The above is a harsh but rational approach given the extent of the problems in the topic area. I don't always follow it but I probably do so on more occasions than not. These articles can always be rebuilt (if notable as topics) and often I do that over a period of time.

Does this help as a general guide? It is my common approach but is neither endorsed by anyone else nor applied by me without at least some discretion. Applying the discretion is something that becomes easier with time: you get a feel for the subject area, for what sounds right/wrong etc and, of course, you develop a pretty good understanding of the merits of the commonly used sources and editorial techniques (which includes phrasing, especially in relation to copyvio detection). - Sitush (talk) 19:56, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your tips on how to navigate these choppy waters. As you may remember I am always happy too try to add a reference; in the case of Old Kingdom of Bargujars that seems impossible judging from a Google Book search, and I have tagged it as a hoax and will take it to AfD to get the opinions from other editors. As for Raghav (surname) most of what has been added has nothing to do with the article subject and I will remove it. Sam ^Sing! 22:31, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

No problem. The tips didn't specifically address your queries but they are an accumulation of my experiences here. I suspect that the kingdom article is not a hoax but rather oral history: there were a lot of very tiny chiefdoms in India, for example, some of which even became recognised by the Brits as princely states or as zamindari estates. I've not yet checked either online or in my references here at home but I wouldn't be at all surprised if there are no written sources of merit that support notability. As I intimated above, this issue with oral history - while probably not capable of being resolved without WP entirely losing credibility - is an example of systemic bias.

I'll take another look at the surname article after you have done your stuff. Most of the issues seem pretty obvious to me but I'm not going to be around for ever and I'm really pleased when other sensible people take an interest in the subject area. It is possible to turn some caste-related articles into encyclopaedic articles but I don't think a lot of people appreciate just how difficult it is to achieve that and in particular to do so when faced with so many that quite simply will never amount to much at all unless some future anthropologist or whatever decides to conduct a formal study. An awful lot of my time here is spent trying to ensure that they do not get worse rather than that they improve. It isn't something that I am particularly proud of because it gives the impression of deletionism etc but, hey, some sort of standards need to be maintained and as long as there are only a few people taking an interest, it is a rather difficult task just to try to stand still. - Sitush (talk) 01:44, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Clarifications

@Sitush (and others those who are reading, please feel free to answer my question, thnx)

I have a question. Not related to this topic (Bargujar; Old Kingdom of Bargujars and Raghav (surname)), but about an interesting comment you made above "Raj ethnographies etc (also not acceptable here, and often thankfully so)". I am trying to understand why so, as they are generally ONLY source of history we have for many communities. Indian communities have rich oral tradition and very little written histories, a a lot of written history had been lost when the successive waves of muslim invaders destroyed the universities and temples that houses the manuscripts, etc. Oral histories wont pass the muster on WP, but Raj ethonographies then become only published and verfiable sources, even if British Raj indulged in scientific racism it does not negate the whole pile of works they wrote, it only shows they were racist and nothing more, why shall their work be rejected?

Another question I have is what is the best way to overcome this problem, where mostly oral history is available, most published sources are either British Raj sources or they newly published sources (many a times by the members of the communities themselves but not the editors, but they are published sources nonetheless).

In other words, what are the ways we can help more communities get documented on WP, when they are poorly published and or they are only published by the sources I mentioned above. Western world had the industrial revolution few centuries ago, they have lot more published sources, developed world though rich in heritage but sadly lacks in QUANTUM of PUBLISHED sources, how do we bring the digital revolution to them by getting them documented from WHATEVER SOURCES we have? Shouldn't all sources be considered GOODFAITH EDIT, unless they can specifically be refuted?

Thanks.

Vdhillon (talk)

I guess the short answer is that if something is deemed to be unreliable etc then it is unreliable. And we don't use unreliable sources on Wikipedia, period. As I've said above, there is an issue of systemic bias here relating to oral history but I don't see how it can be avoided while still maintaining at least some integrity as a project (and, boy, this project lacks integrity). Nothing is perfect and I am well aware that in the Indic ethnography sphere this creates enormous problems. - Sitush (talk) 01:44, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

notified conflict on Dispute_resolution_noticeboard

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sial_tribe#Syal_caste_is_found_in_Jats.2C_Khatris_and_Rajputs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.128.14 (talk) 04:46, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Bhargava

I find that you have removed important information on Bhargavas from the page and called them Vaishy again instead of Brahmans. i mentioned on page that they are Dhusar Brahmans not Dhusar Vaishys. Among Dhusars, both Brahmans as well as Vaishys exist. Also MLBhargava is a senior writer and he cannot be ignored. some talk of consensus on the page, how is it possible if all those who claim Bhargavas as Brahmans are blocked. Some editors have given several citations on Bhargavas being Brahmans, but you do not approve that and choose an unimportant citation as your base to call Bhargavas as Vaishys. This is wrong and non sense. Please correct it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.7.194.39 (talk) 05:08, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Please deal with this at the article talk page, not here. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 08:30, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Khukhrain

hey ssup, I think Sitush you removed a lot from khukrain article without specifying a detailed reason. I am going to revive some of the text. Thanks Mate Mayank.94 (talk) 04:00, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Mayank.94, the reasons (and there are many) are clearly visible here. -- Hoary (talk) 04:04, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

In information that has been removed Hoary in that some of the useful contents were also removed in between.

Not going to restore all the text but that needed. thanks Mayank.94 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 04:11, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

It's not just a matter of usefulness, Mayank.94. The material you intend to restore: is it clearly backed up by informed, independent, reliable sources? ("Informed" here meaning "informed by recent academic research, not by received ideas".) -- Hoary (talk) 04:25, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Leave It Thanks Mayank.94 (talk) 05:03, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Fictional flags

Saw your edit at Chola dynasty, and almost spurted out my coffee. Do you or any of your talk-page stalkers, know of a tool for removing File:Flag_of_Chola_Kingdom.png and File:Twin_fish_flag_of_Pandyas.svg from all the wikipedia articles they are included in, or does it have to be done manually? Abecedare (talk) 15:21, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

I know of no tool and was intending to return and remove them manually using the "links" list. I came across the Chola one when removing File:Simha flag of Pallava Kingdom.png from the Pallavas article. That, too, will need deeper cleaning and I rather suspect that there are others. - Sitush (talk) 16:47, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

File:Flag of Vijayanagara Empire.png. - Sitush (talk) 17:03, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

And more: See the flags here for example, each of which has also been used on numerous other pages. Will need massive cleanup. Abecedare (talk) 17:12, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Alas, because they're at Commons and that place has weird rules, we can't take the easy option of deleting the image centrally & letting the bot do the work. It is perhaps also because the things are at Commons that they are being used on multiple other projects, especially ta-WP. Of course, those other projects may also have a different attitude regarding whether or not they can be used. - Sitush (talk) 17:17, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Yup, we can't solve the problem at the root unfortunately, and will have to restrict the clean-up to en-wp (unless we are feeling particularly adventurous). In some cases though the flags/coat of arms are copyvios (designed in 2005, but used on wikipedia for century-old-dynasties!), eg 1, 2, and 3 which I have tagged for deletion. For the rest, manual labor will be needed. Btw, I plan to use your page to list the files that need to be reviewed/removed from article-space; speak up if your prefer that I use my own/some-other page for this purpose. Else just add to the list below. Abecedare (talk) 17:34, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

• File:Flag of Vijayanagara Empire.png
• File:Twin_fish_flag_of_Pandyas.svg
• File:Pudukkottai_flag.svg
• File:Pandara_Vanniyan_vector_flag.svg
• File:Simha_flag_of_Pallava_Kingdom.png
• File:Flag_of_Chera_dynasty.svg
• File:Flag_of_Chola_Kingdom.png
• File:Chola flag.png
• File:Kakatiya flag.png
• File:King of Kandy.svg (description says "self-made" - a bit ambiguous but there is no cited basis)

The following three are copyvios, and hopefully will be deleted and removed by bot. So don't bother removing manually:

• File:Royal_Flag_of_the_Jaffna_Kingdom.svg
• File:Jaffna_royal_flag.jpeg
• File:Jaffna_coat_of_armst.jpeg

It is fine to do it here. I'm part way through and will strike from your list as I go. - Sitush (talk) 17:35, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

The File:King of Kandy.svg may be ok per [7] (not necessarily a RS; also issues of circularity but...) and because I would expect that we would know what a flag for a 19th century kingdom would look like. "Self-made" may just mean that the uploader "made" the svg image using an existing design; which is fine (analogous to paraphrasing text). This is distinct from a wikipedian designing a flag, as was the case for flags for the Cholas, Cheras etc. Abecedare (talk) 18:08, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, that's why I said the "self-made" was a bit ambiguous. I think we had best leave that one alone. - Sitush (talk) 18:11, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

All done for now. Will just wait for the last three file-links to go red. Thanks Sitush! Abecedare (talk) 18:15, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

No big deal. You should try cleaning out things like Category:Indian Hindus some time. I fiddle with that and related cats on occasion but the number of BLP violations is just soooo big. - Sitush (talk) 18:22, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Serenity Prayer :-) Abecedare (talk) 18:33, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm not a serene personality, as you probably know by now. It would probably be quite easy to keep on top of that cat if there was a way to determine when articles were added to it. That failing seems to me to be one of the lesser-considered reasons why categorisation here is so arcane daft pointless. The standard watchlist is fine but it won't catch cat additions unless you're already watching the article. - Sitush (talk) 18:46, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

• I know MediaWiki:Bad image list exists. That's primarily for penises and such, and I don't really know the "rules", but if this kind of thing proves persistent - and I wouldn't rule that out - it might be a solution. There is probably (for good reason!) a lot of red tape involved though. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 18:20, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

I am okay with the images existing on wikimedia commons as long as they are properly marked with the fictional tag. That way, the user (say a non-scholarly book publisher) can use the image, not as authentic representation of the dynasty flag, but as a (lay) "artistic impression". What is wrong is the use of these images on wikipedia, particularly without a bright and shiny disclosure of their dubious authenticity and provenance. Abecedare (talk) 18:33, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Martijn, I'm always pleased to see you here but you must stop sneaking up on me with weird and wonderful arcana like this ;) You know far too much about far too much. Abecedare, the problem with the flags staying on Commons is that, as Martijn intimates, they'll be back on en-WP articles in no time at all, and I'm not in the mood to add 100 or so more crap articles to my watchlist today. I think I'll just periodically click on the links above and repeat the rinse. - Sitush (talk) 18:46, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

I was passing by, but it may have escaped your attention. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 19:31, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

You should pass by more often if your special interest is the glorious imagery present in non-English insults ;) - Sitush (talk) 19:37, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

that struck me as particularly funny, actually. Despite not even recognising the language, I could still identify it as a blocking offense. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 19:46, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

FYI (since I forgot to ping you this time): Fictional flags at Vatasura's talk page. Abecedare (talk) 02:17, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

If you are interested in non-fictional Wikipedia, I agree with your POV. I do not remember where, but I came across that some editors were stand for using fictional or illustrated work and claimed as "artistic" view. There are bulk of fictional work at Wikipedia and Commons. For eg: Special or fictional flags. Are you going to delete them all? I am sure that you can not do so since there are policy issue, strong obstacle, etc. People use autonomy on soft targets where no/less obstacle. I see you clean up work targeted particular community's fictional work. As I said I would agree with you POV if you act on entire non-fictional work. --Anton^Talk 04:17, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Bhargava

Bored of this. Next move?  Philg88 ^♦talk 19:18, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

I should have issued a formal sanctions notice via template but it seems that I did not. Someone has done that now. If no-one has responded to their latest comment by the time I wake up, I will do so. If they continue in the same vein after that, I'd be inclined to topic ban them for a few months. They seem to be pretty much a SPA anyway but just maybe they'll move to another area and do something useful. - Sitush (talk) 21:36, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Noted. And pleased to see EdJohnston is now on the case.  Philg88 ^♦talk 21:52, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

It will be better if you remove the page all together rather than perpetuating lies about a community on Wikipedia.Bhargavaflame (talk) 04:06, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

We don't do that because the subject is notable. @Philg88:, you'll notice that I have tried at the article talk page but they're still not getting it. - Sitush (talk) 08:46, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

It seems the only way forward here may be a formal topic ban. Thoughts Ed?  Philg88 ^♦talk 08:56, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

At User talk:Bhargavaflame the editor reminds us that he hasn't touched the article itself since mid-November. Though his user name and the language he uses ("perpetuating lies about a community") suggest it may be hard for him to edit neutrally on this topic. EdJohnston (talk) 14:51, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for writing EdJohnston and Philg88. I think that Sitush and Kautilya3 will shortly stop replying to his messages just like I have. Bhargavaflame is spinning wheel and not contributing in building an encyclopedia. We can wait some more. Bladesmulti (talk) 15:33, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Duplicate articles

I need your superior knowledge here to find a way forward with Sahito and Sahita. These are duplicates with one being the singular and one being the plural form of the name. Question is, which one is the correct target for the merge? Cheers,  Philg88 ^♦talk 09:17, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

We use the singular for caste/tribe article titles, which apparently means Sahito is the target. - Sitush (talk) 11:04, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks.  Philg88 ^♦talk 15:40, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

DRN posting

Sitush, I've reverted the posting to which you replied here as a violation of GRAPEVINE. You might want to also revert your response since it no longer makes much sense out of context, but that's your call. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 17:05, 10 December 2014 (UTC) (current DRN coordinator)

Wasn't aware of that, but yeah. No idea what was going on there. - Sitush (talk) 17:08, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

POV help

Hi sitush, I think your view is fairly neutral and I do not have much clue on how to balance this article, would request your help Shrikanthv (talk) 08:47, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

That article has been a nuisance for ages. I doubt that it will ever be considered neutral. It has always struck me as being a very short route to a block or some other sanction. I'll take a look but I suspect that my presence will just raise the temperature. - Sitush (talk) 08:49, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I thought you are omnipresent on Wikipedia :-) -sarvajna (talk) 10:43, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Since your attention has already been drawn to this conflagration, a vote here would be appreciated (either way). Cheers, Vanamonde93 (talk) 08:05, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Bhumihar Brahmin

Possible sock/meat thing, eg: contributions of Abhishek1747 (talk · contribs) and Bpandey89 (talk · contribs), but in any case this is a copy/paste of stuff that has been discussed previously. - Sitush (talk) 16:20, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi Sitush Please check the rubbish content in the page bhumihar brahmin. It's a shame for wikipedia.. Bhumihars are also called as bhumihar brahmins because they claim so.. This statement is too much stupid.. Shall I be considered as President Anant, If I claim that I'm president of India. Real fact is that bhumihar brahmins are one of the branch of kanyakubj brahmins. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanyakubja_Brahmins They had been traditional priest at Vishnupad Mandir , Gaya and as gayawar panda at Gaya and Hazaribagh. Swami Sahajand Saraswati (a bhumihar brahmin) was a dandi sanyashi.. Some of the historic accounts. 1)Rulers, Townsmen and Bazaars: North Indian Society in the Age of British By C. A. Bayly url= http://books.google.co.in/books?id=xfo3AAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=bhumihar+brahmin+origin+by+historians&hl=en&sa=X&ei=x54UVLvYGcaTuATng4HgBw&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=bhumihar&f=false 2)The Limited Raj: Agrarian Relations in Colonial India, Saran District, 1793-1920 By Anand A. Yang url== http://books.google.co.in/books?id=Ck4jmD7H34UC&pg=PA59&dq=bhumihar+brahmin+origin+by+historians&hl=en&sa=X&ei=x54UVLvYGcaTuATng4HgBw&ved=0CDoQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=bhumihar%20brahmin%20origin%20by%20historians&f=false 3)Man in India, Volumes 54-55 by Sarat Chandra Roy (Ral Bahadur) url==http://books.google.co.in/books?id=CGMqAQAAIAAJ&q=bhumihar+brahmin+origin+by+historians&dq=bhumihar+brahmin+origin+by+historians&hl=en&sa=X&ei=x54UVLvYGcaTuATng4HgBw&ved=0CEsQ6AEwBw 4)Bazaar India: Markets, Society, and the Colonial State in Gangetic Bihar By Anand A. Yang url== http://books.google.co.in/books?id=D5lQutvzAp4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=bhumihar+brahmin+origin+by+historians&hl=en&sa=X&ei=x54UVLvYGcaTuATng4HgBw&ved=0CFAQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=bhumihar%20&f=false 5)Caste: The Colonial Theories by Braja Bihārī Kumāra url== http://books.google.co.in/books?id=voe3AAAAIAAJ&q=bhumihar+brahmin+origin+by+historians&dq=bhumihar+brahmin+origin+by+historians&hl=en&sa=X&ei=x54UVLvYGcaTuATng4HgBw&ved=0CFYQ6AEwCQ 6)Evolution and Spatial Organization of Clan Settlements: A Case Study By Saiyad Hasan Ansar url==http://books.google.co.in/books?id=dxDWbsztdVQC&pg=PA100&lpg=PA100&dq=Evolution+and+Spatial+Organization+of+Clan+Settlements:+A+Case+Study+of+...++By+Saiyad+Hasan+Ansari&source=bl&ots=Z2K627D9Qw&sig=p0YFJjE2ASP6v09wVCn3DY6riRo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tKMUVOqGKonjuQShw4DoAw&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Evolution%20and%20Spatial%20Organization%20of%20Clan%20Settlements%3A%20A%20Case%20Study%20of%20...%20%20By%20Saiyad%20Hasan%20Ansari&f=false 7)Brahamharshi Bamsha Bistar by swami shahjanand saraswati. url==https://archive.org/details/BrahamharshiBamshaBistar 8)Hindu caste and sect by yogendra nath bhattacharya url==https://archive.org/stream/hinducastesands00bhatgoog#page/n136/mode/2up 9)Census of India 1891 by British Indian Govt. url==https://openlibrary.org/books/OL24179313M/Census_of_India_1891 10)Caste, Society and Politics in India from the Eighteenth Century to the ... By Susan Bayly url==http://books.google.co.in/books?id=HbAjKR_iHogC&pg=PA203&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=bhumihar&f=false 11)The State at War in South Asia By Pradeep Barua url==http://books.google.co.in/books?id=FIIQhuAOGaIC&pg=PA76&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Bhumihar&f=false 12)Peasants and Monks in British India by William R. Pinch UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA PRESS url==http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft22900465;brand=ucpress url==http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft22900465&chunk.id=s1.3.13&toc.depth=1&toc.id=ch3&brand=ucpress;query=#1 senari massacre http://www.pucl.org/reports/Bihar/2001/jehanabad.htm Note : Bhumihar Brahmin/ Babhan/ Bhumihars (short name of bhumihar Brahmin) are names to same community. Sometimes they are also called as Bhramarshi. Brahmin is a priestly class in hindu community, but many Brahmins were landlords during British and mughal era. Books mentioned earlier are the books from renowned Historians or social activists. None of these books have mentioned any relation of bhumihar with rajput. Bhumihar (i.e. Babhan, which is an old name for bhumihar brahmin which had been used in early colonial census of british india (ref 9)) is a distinct community different from rajput, but having Brahminic (of brahmin) origin. It is a total bias to write a tale and false fiction of ashwani kumar (i.e. Bhumihar made up of union of rajput and Brahmin). You can find a lot about the plight of dalit ( i.e. so called downtrodden section of society who are not at all downtrodden in present time and availing reservation in all wakes of life, even in judiciary and legislature in India) in his (aswani kumar) book, but hardly about the plight of Bhumihar Brahmin/Babhan. He has not mentioned Senari massacre and other massacre (available on ranvir sena Wikipedia ) in which mcc, Maoist (i.e. naxalite) and dalit led army beheaded bhumihar/babhan cruelly like Islamic state terrorist organisation of present time. This book is a totally biases against upper caste (i.e. Class) and trying to emphasise only on false tales and fabricated story which has come out of sheer jealousy. There are some bad persons in all community which have been over hyped in ashwani kumar book. Entire babhan community has been made culprit in his book. If anyone is writing anything in Wikipedia he should write all the issues, and not merely some defamatory and derogatory tales, which is not at all true. Ashwani kumar has written many fictitious stories about babhan/bhumihar which cannot be simultaneously true. Rajput is a community which come into existence only after fall of Harshavardhan kingdom. (Refer Rajesthan by RK gupta and s r bhakshi. http://books.google.co.in/books?id=gHNoU2zcDnIC&pg=PA1&dq=rajput+origin&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Qr8eVKO8MZKTuATy3YLwBg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=rajput%20origin&f=false or you can refer book from eminent historian like Satish Chandra for medival india.) Initially they (Rajputs) were centred around north-west India and some part of central India. They came to eastern India only at the time of emergence of Islamic force in India (i.e. around 1200 AD or Muhammad ghori period). Bhumihar brahmin is a new name to babhan community which gained popularity in late 19th century and popularised by babhan landlords as well as sahjanand saraswati. In early british census report(till 1891 census) they were enumerated as Babhans under aristocratic and military community. So I request wikipedians to remove this fairy tale which has been fabricated by some jealousy community out of sheer jealousy. Please put up historic fact about babhan community rather than some fabricated story. Swami shahjanand saraswati was a peasant leader and social reformer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahajanand_Saraswati) who advocated mere priesthood for babhans rather than landlord ship and wanted inclusion of Bhumihar Brahman/Babhan in mere donation taking Brahmins list and also attempted to abolish zamindari (landlord ship) from bihar. Babhans were already included in aristocratic class till 1891 british census. There is hardly any book or early historical evidence giving relation of bhumihar/Babhan with rajput. It is a pure myth to associate bhumihar with rajput which are two distinct community. So please put down the myth and include the materials from reliable and credible citation regarding bhumihar/ babhan community. Bhumihar is a Sanskrit word for zamindar or jagirdar which means landlord or landholder. Swami shahjanand saraswati books (Brahamharshi Bamsha Bistar by swami shahjanand saraswati. https://archive.org/details/BrahamharshiBamshaBistar) are cited by most of the Brahmin community for reference like kanyakubj Brahmin, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanyakubja_Brahmins) Saryupareen Brahmins (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saryupareen_Brahmins) Jujhautiya Brahmin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jujhautiya_Brahmin). In most of the sites the sahjanand thoughts are distorted and presented. It is highly pathetic. One more point I want to mention is that a new fictitious and imaginary theory which has evolved recently and has not been mentioned by any historians in past and colonial era. Babhan (Bhumihar) has been categorised as shudra along with kayastha in British colonial census report.(http://books.google.co.in/books?id=sQcGAQAAQBAJ&pg=PA31&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false) this book mentions this claim but it has not mentioned which year census report did so. I am including one of the early British census report and one book abstract which evidently tells the falsehood of the above statement. (Census of India 1891 by British Indian govt url== https://openlibrary.org/books/OL24179313M/Census_of_India_1891) and (Peasants and Monks in British India by William R. Pinch UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA PRESS url==http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft22900465;brand=ucpress & url==http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft22900465&chunk.id=s1.3.13&toc.depth=1&toc.id=ch3&brand=ucpress;query=#1) above books clearly denote that babhans were considered as military community similar to rajputs, nairs and marathas , they fought to get included in mere priestly (i.e. donation taking) Brahmin list since they have brahmanic (i.e. of brahmin) origin. Bhumihar name was not used to list this entire community till 1891 census report. This entire community was listed with the name babhan till 1891 census under military and aristocratic category. There after sahjanand demanded abolishion of zamindari and inclusion of babhan as mere priestly donation taking brahmin list (since they have brahmnic origin) . Bhumihar word was also popularised and created by their groups(sahjanand group)only which included kashi naresh. 1901 onward bhumihar (i.e. babhan ) was categorised under mere priestly brahmin category. Please do not let some editor write some spurious and false facts which do not have historical evidences or account to back the fact. We are talking about British India census claim without any substantial fact to verify that claim — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anant57 (talk • contribs) 18:14, 16 December 2014 (UTC) You seem to be echoing almost word for word the stuff that Bpandey89 (talk · contribs) has been repeatedly plastering at various Wikipedia venues. Are you familiar with WP:SOCK? - Sitush (talk) 18:21, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Would I be bang out of order if I hatted that text above? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:43, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

I wouldn't have objected. I've done it myself now. - Sitush (talk) 16:19, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Ditto - Sitush (talk) 08:59, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi sitush (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Sitush#Bhumihar_Brahmin),i have communicated with Jeffrey Witsoe in which he has told that he is also not firm about the question of " babhan listed as shudra in census record along with kayastha"( if you require i will send you conversation). I have mentioned William pinch (refer aforesaid citation 12) book which have cited many books as well as census record stating that earlier census record listed babhan as military and dominenet community. Francis buchan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Buchanan-Hamilton) has told them as militant brahmin since they have brahminic origin but many of them have adopted agriculture and war. Jeffrey Witsoe has not cited any book or the census record claiming that statement. In communication with him he told that this is a small issue if incorrect he will change it in his next edition. I feel you have special grudge or hostility towars this community so only putting up some crap material. you have done enough, if you are so sure why do not you cite any census record in which such claim has been made. Do not make wikipedia a tool to show ur hostility or grudge. Willium pinch has cited proper books for all the statement he has made. you are consistently removing willium pinch book ciation and putting up a book which ahs not cited the book from where he got such an idea or inference. Do not show hostility on wikipedia, it is not facebook where you can put any unauthentic news or fiction or mere supposition. You have raised question over the authenticity of the material by sahjanand saraswati who has national recognition and acceptance as a hero and eminent leader. He always demanded removal of zamindari so he was against many of the babhan landlords and helped yadav peasants during independance(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/spa/zohkohb0i282t94/Area%20Studies/public/SouthAsia/Misc/Sss/whpsnts96.html). Do not narrow down your view and see the person from a single perspective. It is just like telling an elephant as a cylindrical pipe after touching its trunk. repeatedly i am telling put up some authentic material material rather than suppostion or myth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bpandey89 (talk • contribs) 05:10, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

@sitush what ever material you are putting up is a crap and none of the historians you have personally pasted is renowned or well known. In the name of neutrality you are consistently putting up spurious things which is not at all acceptable. You are alleging others that they are just copy pasting material but i feel that is much better to paste material from renowned authors than pasting spurious and fabricated opinions which do not have any historical relevance. Do not do such things. I have elaborately presented all the points of confusion present in your brain.You are deleting most of the credible and reliable accounts on the topic. Do you think your patronized authors like ashwani kumar, jaffry wotse and arvind das personally have done any survey to find out the clans and traditions of babhans to really arrive at some points. Customs and beliefs of any community is not at all origin of any 100 year interval it has genesis in much ancient past. All the british and indian historian account have considered babhans a dwija (twin born) community. The very name Babhan suggest that we are brahmin of magadh region since it is a pali word and pali was language of magadh during ashoka and other rulers. All the historical evidences and customs as well as tradition points toward brahminic origin. Even francis buchanan has told that all the best historical account of that time have suggested their brahminic origin which is crap for you and some insinuated fictitious tales you have considered credible. It is height of hostility please do not do so in the name of neutrality. If you are so keen why do not you do a survey and research on babhan community. Bpandey89 (talk 08:47 25 December 2014

Please take your own good advice - and please leave me alone

If you're planning on following me around and commenting about my comments,[8] please don't. My comment on Neotarf's talk page[9] was a simple, personal message to someone who's probably smarting right now. It was also almost a verbatim copy of something he/she posted on my talk page[10] after I quit and was still smarting - which is what made the comment personal - between me and him/her. Now you've managed to take that little pat on the back off his/her page...[11] for no good reason. (Jehochman might have just removed your comment to "eliminate bickering." After all, you bickered, not me.)

Neotarf is banned. You're still here to edit. Leave it be, please.

And about your comment, That sounds like the situation is warfare? This reminds me of when you said on Jimbo's talk page that the name of the Gender Gap Task Force was "military." In fact, ironically, part of what you said in that comment applies here:

reading things that are not there and then labelling them as hostile....[12]

Not everything is an act of war. How about you take your own advice about not reading things that aren't there and labeling them as hostile (or military, or warped, or misconceived). Please leave me alone. I'm not in a good place right now and I don't need your lecturing. Lightbreather (talk) 00:54, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Lightbreather, if you wish not to interact with Sitush, consider staying off his talk page. Your situation is nothing like Neotarf's. Your brief retirement was voluntary. It's hard to make sense of your endorsement of Neotarf's behavior in light of the circumstances of Neotarf's departure. SPECIFICO talk 01:01, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

My "endorsement" is more appropriately "sympathy." Like Carolmooredc, Neotarf is not someone that I understand well, but I don't think either deserved to be banned when others were spared. I only came here because the page where Sitush commented about my comment is now protected, so I couldn't respond there. Now, I would like to leave (this page). Lightbreather (talk) 01:09, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

If you don't want to interact with Sitush, leaving messages on his talk page is a strange way to go about doing it. It's not compulsory you know! Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 08:01, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

If you're planning on following me around - you know, your lack of good faith is a constant source of amazement to me. I haven't followed you anywhere. - Sitush (talk) 09:00, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Sitush, I don't think adding anything to Neotarf's page was wise. Your comment on Neotarf's page did lack good faith too. Jehochman made the good decision of reverting it. I don't think you are following Lightbreather around, but just walk away. Bgwhite (talk) 09:37, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Neotarf's page was on my watchlist (not now because of the protection). There was not lack of good faith on my part because her phrasing clearly continued the ridiculous battleground attitude that she has been displaying for months now. I've avoided LB except occasionally when she has commented on pages that I watch, notably her whinging at Salvio's talk. She needs to drop the bloody stick and do some article work or something - I've made thousands of useful contributions and got something through FAC while she has been farting around. - Sitush (talk) 09:41, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Still, you shouldn't have made the comment on Neotarf's page and both of you need to drop it... it takes two to tango. Also, that is not fair... You've made 20 edits in the span that it takes me to fart and bask in the moment. :) Bgwhite (talk) 09:56, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

I'd already told an arb that it might perhaps have been an ill-advised comment, several hours some time before this thread opened. But I'm not the one who needs to drop it in the more general sense and the more people tell me that, the more I am likely to get pissed off that people cannot see the elephant in the room. - Sitush (talk) 10:02, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Precious again

Elites in India
Thank you, Labutnum of the Encyclopedia, for quality articles on people in India Under British Rule, such as James Tod, and for calmly carrying on, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:59, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Two years ago, you were the 339th recipient of my PumpkinSky Prize (the prize of the outcasts), --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:20, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Nomination of Beda people for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Beda people is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Beda people until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Lakun.patra (talk) 09:26, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Merry Christmas from London

May you have very Happy Christmas, Sitush...

and a New Year filled with peace and plenty!

Best wishes, Voceditenore (talk) 18:30, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

The entire population of London is wishing me a merry Christmas? It would be churlish of me if I were to ignore them! Many thanks, Sherlock, and my best wishes to you also. - Sitush (talk) 13:18, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Negi (caste)

Is it even worth filing an SPI? Sam ^Sing! 15:30, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Probably not. Checkuser won't link the IPs to the registered account and in behavioural terms this could be meatpuppetry encouraged by a caste association etc rather than socking proper. - Sitush (talk) 16:14, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

I indeffed the two named accounts (the more recent one posted to Sam's Talk page, which I also reverted), and I've semi-protected the article to take care of the IPs.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:00, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Edit warring and IP hopping

On Mala (caste) for about 2 weeks. Bladesmulti (talk) 05:57, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Bladesmulti I added page protection for a period of one month. If it continues after a month, leave a message here or on my talk page. Bgwhite (talk) 06:15, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Best wishes for a happy holiday season

		Happy Holiday Cheer
		Season's Greetings! This message celebrates the holiday season, promotes WikiLove, and hopefully makes your day a little better. Spread the seasonal good cheer by wishing another user an Awesome Holiday and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone with whom you had disagreements in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Share the good feelings! Joys!Hafspajen (talk) 02:55, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, and my best wishes in return! - Sitush (talk) 10:24, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Season's Greetings and Happy New Year

		Happy Holiday Cheer
		Season's Greetings, Sitush/Archive 20! This message celebrates the holiday season, promotes WikiLove, and hopefully makes your day a little better. Spread the seasonal good cheer by wishing another user an Awesome Holiday and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone with whom you had disagreements in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Share the good feelings! Joys!--CaroleHenson (talk) 06:20, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, and my best wishes in return! - Sitush (talk) 10:24, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Freedom Park

Hi Sitush, thanks for reverting Gollymemolly on Freedom Park. I wasn't aware of WP:LTA/IAC. On a side note, one for the refs that was removed by the editor [which has sine been restored by your rollback] is a page on the IAC website. Would it be advisable to get rid of that and use one from a newspaper? I know atleast two-three English papers would have published the matter. Cheerio, -_Rsrikanth05 (talk) 11:19, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

The "IAC website" is itself a controversial issue. I thought that I had removed it but maybe I've confused myself with a copyedit on another article where I reverted the sock. It certainly should be replaced. - Sitush (talk) 11:48, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Season's Greetings

Ekdalian (talk) is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas6}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Happy Xmas! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 13:55, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Seasonal Greets!

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2015!!!

Hello Sitush, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you a heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2015. Happy editing, Tito☸Dutta 14:00, 24 December 2014 (UTC) Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

Thanks, all. I'm watching Santa right now. One for the kids ;) - Sitush (talk) 14:47, 24 December 2014 (UTC) == Seasonal Greets! ==

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2015!!!

Hello Sitush, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you a heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2015. Happy editing, Mahensingha 19:48, 24 December 2014 (UTC) Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

Prithviraj Kapoor born in Peshewar

Well you have changed the birthplace Prithviraj Kapoor from Peshewar into Lyallpur, many Indians and readers don't believe that people can be born in Peshewar while beeing Hindu and give Punjab label to them while being ethnic Pathan Hindu, can you revert that because Indians from Afghanistan and Peshewar do excist, the Kapoor family mostly comes form Peshewar and Afghanistan origine while others put them in a Punjab section.

It is sourced, so it really doesn't matter what "many Indians and readers" deduce using their own ethno-religious prejudices. Unless you can find a reliable source that differs, the birthplace will remain as Lyallpur. - Sitush (talk) 10:26, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

Yo Ho Ho

Dougweller (talk) is wishing you Seasons Greetings! Whether you celebrate your hemisphere's Solstice or Christmas, Diwali, Hogmanay, Hanukkah, Lenaia, Festivus or even the Saturnalia, this is a special time of year for almost everyone!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding {{subst:User:WereSpielChequers/Dec14c}} to your friends' talk pages.

Dougweller (talk) 21:57, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

I prostrate myself before you, Dougweller, oh arbitrator-designate. Thanks very much. - Sitush (talk) 10:26, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

Happy Holidays

		Happy Holidays
		Wishing you and yours a Happy Holiday Season, from the horse and bishop person. May the year ahead be productive and troll-free. - Ealdgyth - Talk 15:08, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

Mele Kalikimaka

Have a bright Hawaiian Christmas!--Mark Miller (talk) 16:38, 25 December 2014 (UTC)